2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

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Boothy
Shas
Posts: 3

2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#1 » Sep 15 2017 04:07

Hi people

I’ve been out of the game since the end of 4th and began lurking here at the start of 8th. I used to use a fully mechanized Tau army for tournaments back then and am currently in the process of modernizing!

In a week and a bit I’m going to a 2k tournament and could do with some tips for final tweaks to the army (one specifically which I’ll mention in a bit) as I’m out of playtesting time.

The event uses three eternal war and three maelstrom of war missions with the new FAQ’s and previewed Chapter Approved rules in play.

I’m going for a mobile army that wants to fight at close – medium range for the most part with just a few units hanging back or advancing cautiously ready for some fireblade powered rapid fire middle to late game. The vast majority of key units will drop in to help mitigate going second.

Battalion Detachment:
Cadre fireblade
Cadre fireblade
XV9 (2x double burst cannon, ATS)
XV9 (2x double burst cannon, ATS)
5x fire warriors
5x fire warriors
5x fire warriors
5x fire warriors
Y’Vahra (ATS, target lock)
5x shield drones

Outrider Detachment:
XV84 Commander (2x missile pod, ATS, networked marker light, 1x drone)
5x Vespid
5x Vespid
5x Vespid
5x Vespid
2x technical drones

Supreme Command:
XV8 Commander (3x cyclic ion blaster, ATS, 2x drones)
XV8 Commander (3x cyclic ion blaster, ATS, 2x drones)
XV8 Commander (3x cyclic ion blaster, ATS, 2x drones)
XV8 Commander (3x cyclic ion blaster, ATS, 2x drones)

Total – 1999
20 drops, 11 deep strike options

With 20 drops I have to deploy one of my suits/vespid. In the list above this will generally be the XV84 commander since he has the range to hit things from my deployment zone. As such if I want then the entire army can jump straight into action on turn one.

I have only run the XV84 with pods in one game. Prior to that I had one less XV8 commander, Farsight Marksmen instead of the fireblades (more drops, but I don’t actually have the models and I do like the powering up of the fire warriors) and ran the XV84 with double ion blasters. This let the XV84 drop down with the XV8’s. I much preferred the offensive output of the double ion blaster to the pods, but think the current list is better overall. As such the big question is: Is it worth having a unit do nothing on the first 1-2 turns in order to change the double pods to double ion and allow the XV84 commander to drop in alongside a couple of the XV8’s?

Some other notes – I’ve been very happy with the ion blasters so far. The flexibility of the weapon has proven very handy so that the suits are always relevant no matter the target. They have done well mowing down conscripts, marines, terminators, and medium vehicles. I really like that they can operate fully at 18”, it gives them a bit more of a safety net against enemy support units, and a little more flexibility with how they want to use terrain compared to plasma or fusion (which have to get scarily close for full effectiveness).

I have also been very happy with the technical drones. They have stripped cover off a few things I really wanted dead, and kept the Y’Vahra alive for an extra turn thanks to repairs. I had considered dropping them for more drones, but am satisfied that they have earnt their place.

Generally I don’t like my first post on a new forum to be an army list, but oh well. Hopefully I can contribute something a bit more meaty with some battle reports after the tournament!

Thanks for your help

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Heldericht
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#2 » Sep 15 2017 08:27

Looks pretty good, I like the vespids addition to save on points but bulk up the drops when a Y'vahra is in the list (usually in a Yvahra list there are very few deepstrikers).

Would love to hear how the tournament plays out. Please update with your matches and how it went.

Having said that, I think you can do some tweaks to the list.

Firstly, only add 1 pod to the xv84 and give it a drone controller. Best place to put it.

Secondly, I hope you just forgot to add drones to the xv9s, but you should really have them drop down with 4 drones each for more ablative wounds and dakka.

Lastly, you can cut some fire warriors and just add a bunch of gun drone units to be honest. They'll output more firepower with the fireblades and they can act as wounds for the Y'vahra too. You can change the batallion to an outrider detachment. Just need 1 fireblade there. If you need more units on the ground after these changes, add some kroot hounds for cheap units to boost your drops. Alternately you can also use firesight marksmen.

I think with those tweaks you'll have a solid list.

Boothy
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#3 » Sep 17 2017 02:57

Thanks for the comments. I’ll definitely try to get some pictures over the event and do a report of some sort.

Sadly the lack of drones with the XV9’s is not a typo, points had to be cut somewhere and the commanders need their drones more. Although to be honest I normally end up dropping them in teams of two commanders and an XV9, so there are usually some drones around if they really need them, just not as many as I would like.

On the topic of drones I am very keen to try a load of drones + fireblade in a devilfish (or two) since mathing it out things get pretty great. Sadly I don’t have nearly enough drones to do something like that at tournaments just yet. I’ll proxy them up in some casual games and if it’s great then I might try and acquire the necessary numbers to do it after Chapter Approved (just in case something radical happens to the Tau army in there).

I agree that the fourth unit of fire warriors is kind of dead weight. I might just have enough drones to replace them, if I do I’ll definitely do that – got sucked into making my list symmetrical lol!

Generally the XV84 commander has been hanging back – main reason for pods over more ion. As such he is generally far way from all the gun drones accompanying the other commanders. If he did have the controller I would then want to be deep striking in with him as well, and would have to leave something else behind. Do you think its worth it, or would dropping a single ion blaster (or an ATS) for a controller on one of the XV8 commanders be better?

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#4 » Sep 18 2017 11:28

For the time being, let's cut some of the extraneous units (tiny Shield Drone group, extra Fireblade, extra Fire Warrior squad etc), fix some of the wargear (at least 3 weapons per Commander), add Drones to the units that need them (XV9s) and see what the army looks like. Something like this:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - XV84 Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Networked Markerlight (155)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)

So, as it stands, you have a 1914-point list. It's good, very spammy, but it's missing two important things: first, you only have two Markerlights; two, you have surprisingly little anti-tank. Let's add 8x Pathfinders (+64), and switch one of those Commanders over to a classic 4x Fusion Blaster kit (+22), and that brings us to an even 2000. Here's the final list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - XV84 Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Networked Markerlight (155)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders (64)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - 5x Vespid Stingwings (75)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)

Total: 2000 - Command Points: 8 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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Heldericht
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#5 » Sep 20 2017 12:28

HQ - XV84 Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Networked Markerlight (155)


The XV84 only has 2 slots, so max 2 pods. But otherwise, great tweaks on that list! :)

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#6 » Sep 20 2017 06:57

Heldericht wrote:
HQ - XV84 Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Networked Markerlight (155)


The XV84 only has 2 slots, so max 2 pods. But otherwise, great tweaks on that list! :)


I thought it had four slots, one of which was pre-filled by the Networked Markerlight. Or is it two weapon slots, one system slot, and the Markerlight?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#7 » Sep 21 2017 01:35

Arka0415 wrote:
Heldericht wrote:
HQ - XV84 Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Networked Markerlight (155)


The XV84 only has 2 slots, so max 2 pods. But otherwise, great tweaks on that list! :)


I thought it had four slots, one of which was pre-filled by the Networked Markerlight. Or is it two weapon slots, one system slot, and the Markerlight?

That's because the XV84 doesn't just come with a Networked Markerlight, it also comes with a Target Lock by default. ;)

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#8 » Sep 21 2017 07:30

Panzer wrote:That's because the XV84 doesn't just come with a Networked Markerlight, it also comes with a Target Lock by default. ;)


I don't actually own Index: Xenos, just working from what I see here. Found the datasheet online though... it has the Target Lock reminder text in its description but isn't actually equipped with a Target Lock. Not that the target lock would do anything even if it had one though. So, just two slots and a Networked Markerlight then. I guess I withdraw my support for the XV84, two slots is a joke.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#9 » Sep 21 2017 08:16

Well the Target Lock does something if you want it to do something. Keep in mind that it doesn't just let us shoot heavy weapons without penalty after moving, it also let us shoot assault weapons without penalty after advancing and rapid fire weapons after advancing with a -1 to-hit penalty. ;)

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#10 » Sep 21 2017 08:26

Panzer wrote:Well the Target Lock does something if you want it to do something. Keep in mind that it doesn't just let us shoot heavy weapons without penalty after moving, it also let us shoot assault weapons without penalty after advancing and rapid fire weapons after advancing with a -1 to-hit penalty. ;)


True, you can advance your XV84 and use the Target Lock, but what I'm saying is it doesn't have one. It has reminder text in the abilities list, but does not have the wargear item in its description. Probably a mistake but it hasn't been corrected in the FAQ.

At any rate though, no one is going to put a Target Lock on a (non-Coldstar) Commander; I've never seen it in a real Tau list and probably never will. But sacrifice two slots on a Commander for a good chance for a single Markerlight hit per turn? Yikes.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#11 » Sep 21 2017 08:33

As far as I'm concerned, a unit has all the special rules it has on the Datasheet unless the text in that special rule says only a specific model from that unit has it or similar exceptions.
Of course FW screwed up there, but what's more likely? FW putting there a reminder text of a basic Support System for no real reason, or FW simply forgetting to put the Target Lock in the units wargear description? ;)

I agree though that the Target Lock is not overly usefull on Commanders. I don't even take it on a Coldstar since I think Shield Gen and ATS are too valuable there. Without the XV84 would be a much more attractive choice but it effectively trades two slots for a Networked Markerlight.
A question about the XV84 comes to my mind though. Can he shoot his Networked Markerlight together with his other weapons anyway? I know you can't do so with regular Markerlights but I don't remember the exact wording of the Markerlight rules so no clue whether the Networked Markerlight would be included that restriction.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#12 » Sep 21 2017 08:41

Panzer wrote:As far as I'm concerned, a unit has all the special rules it has on the Datasheet unless the text in that special rule says only a specific model from that unit has it or similar exceptions.
Of course FW screwed up there, but what's more likely? FW putting there a reminder text of a basic Support System for no real reason, or FW simply forgetting to put the Target Lock in the units wargear description? ;)

Yeah, I wouldn't argue it if someone wanted to use it. However, back in previous editions that Target Lock was an important part of the XV84's loadout. Now it's much less useful. I wonder if they took it out during playtesting but forgot to delete that text. Just my hypothesis.

Panzer wrote:A question about the XV84 comes to my mind though. Can he shoot his Networked Markerlight together with his other weapons anyway? I know you can't do so with regular Markerlights but I don't remember the exact wording of the Markerlight rules so no clue whether the Networked Markerlight would be included that restriction.

Hmm, that's a good question. The Networked Markerlight adds a ML token when you hit with any other weapon. Nothing says you can't shoot the Networked Markerlight like any other Markerlight... but nothing says you can, either. Question being, "Is the Networked Markerlight a Markerlight?"

Anyway, I'd say that the issue is moot because it doesn't explicitly say that the Networked Markerlight can be fired- just that it adds a token when other weapons are fired.

I keep coming across the XV84 and then remembering just how weird and underpowered it is :?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#13 » Sep 21 2017 08:59

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:A question about the XV84 comes to my mind though. Can he shoot his Networked Markerlight together with his other weapons anyway? I know you can't do so with regular Markerlights but I don't remember the exact wording of the Markerlight rules so no clue whether the Networked Markerlight would be included that restriction.

Hmm, that's a good question. The Networked Markerlight adds a ML token when you hit with any other weapon. Nothing says you can't shoot the Networked Markerlight like any other Markerlight... but nothing says you can, either. Question being, "Is the Networked Markerlight a Markerlight?"

Anyway, I'd say that the issue is moot because it doesn't explicitly say that the Networked Markerlight can be fired- just that it adds a token when other weapons are fired.

Alright I got my hands on its Datasheet now.
It wasn't listed as weapon like other Markerlights. It just says that it applies one Markerlight per Phase if you hit with any of your weapons. Well, that makes it much less impressive than it could've been but also makes my question pointless. :D

To the question how many hardpoints the XV84 has:
- It's listed as being equipped with a single Burst Cannon by default
- It has the option to replace that Burst Cannon with a weapon or Support System
- It has the option to take ONE additional weapon or Support System
So even if the Target Lock and the Networked Markerlight don't take up a hardpoint, it definitely only comes with two hardpoints to play around with.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2199

Re: 2k Tournament List, Final Tweaks

Post#14 » Sep 21 2017 08:17

Panzer wrote:So even if the Target Lock and the Networked Markerlight don't take up a hardpoint, it definitely only comes with two hardpoints to play around with.

Yeah, that's absolutely true- could be a relic from when Commanders could only take 3 weapons. Anyway, with that in mind I think I'm going to pull the XV84 from my list suggestion. Here's what I think I'd do in this case:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Elites - XV9 w/ 2x DBBC, 1x ATS; 4x Gun Drones (133)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders (80)
Fast Attack - 6x Vespid Stingwings (90)
Fast Attack - 6x Vespid Stingwings (90)
Fast Attack - 6x Vespid Stingwings (90)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)

Total: 1996 - Command Points: 8 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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