500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#19 » Sep 21 2017 12:36

So yes it's a regular game but the only way to get points for the tournament is under those conditions. It's a 1.5 month long tournament with bi-weekly point increments i.e:

Round 1(two weeks) 2 300 games and 2 500 games. Round 2 2 1000 2 1500
Round 3 2 2000 2 2500

With rules varying along the way. Strange I know. But fun for a beginner like me.

My main reason for the pods was the range. I really hate getting close up and that 36+8movment range is really appealing.

Math isn't wrong I just miscounted on the missle Commander. It is 500 on my sheet. Sorry about that.

I took the coldstar as like a distraction carnifex because when I used it into the previous games it seemed to draw their attention and survive except for the turn 1 jump pack assault librarian who rolled 5 mortal wounds which I still don't understand what happened -.-

Anyways do you think I should drop it for a different commander? I'm not too sure on how they feel about proxies atm.

The next match is this Sat/Sun
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1554

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#20 » Sep 21 2017 07:23

Froglift wrote:So yes it's a regular game but the only way to get points for the tournament is under those conditions.


Well, this should make for a very strange tournament! Assuming people play competitively (they should, it's a tournament after all) no one will bring tanks. This means all players will score the 3 points, so that's moot. Also, no-one will be able to kill any vehicles, making that part moot too. So, the only way to score any points is to consolidate near your opponent- and consolidation only happens when you win a combat. You're Tau: you will never win a combat. So, you'll need to stay away from your opponents, using your Battlesuits' speed and the Fly keyword to stay ahead of your opponent. Also, they only way you can win if you "table" your opponent (destroy every model they have so you win by default).

If you don't want to proxy, then you should use the Coldstar and you can't use an XV84. So, that brings us back to this list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x CIB; 2x Marker Drones (168)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)

Total: 494 - Command Points: 4 (1 Supreme Command Detachment)

-

Of course, if you like Missile Pods than that switch is easy to make, just swap the 4x CIB for 3xMP+ATS. However, that's a lot of anti-vehicle/dreadnought/monster firepower in a game where vehicles might be few and far between... what do you think?

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Marker Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)

Total: 502 - Command Points: 4 (1 Supreme Command Detachment)

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 323

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#21 » Sep 21 2017 09:27

If nobody is taking tanks, he shouldn't need a 4x fusion commander. I'd probably just roll with a 4xCIB commander and a 3xCIB DC commander, shield drone and marker drone for all three commanders. Clearly the coldstar just leaves his but start him near the others. Could MAYBE do 3x MP DC commander and hang back but that's your call. Might be able to add a mixed 4 man drone squad if you cut the drones from the coldstar to help keep the other commanders alive. Just make sure you have a few available lights for this since you go from 83.33% to 97.2% with a single light for a commander. Pretty good odds with that.

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#22 » Sep 21 2017 10:00

Arka0415 wrote: This means all players will score the 3 points, so that's moot.


Those who table their opponnents without using vehicles will get the 3 points so yeah it is kinda a "yay you win here's 3 points".

My main issue is that I am afraid of the Dreadnoughts and Terminators. Since I have only started playing last week, those things gave me so much trouble with the poor dice rolling that I had. I liked the -2 and the reliable d3 damage of the pods without having to risk the mortal overcharge the Cyclic Ion. + the range. And there is a lot of cover usually on the map.

The Fusion is mostly to pop the Dreads(Walker-Vehicle so it is allowed) that are going to be there.
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#23 » Sep 21 2017 10:09

If not fusion then, what about:

4 Ion Commander with 2 shield drones to survive being close.
3 Missile Commander with ATS and 2 Marker drones for long range support
Coldstar with ATS and Shield Gen with a Marker drone
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3134

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#24 » Sep 21 2017 10:33

Well what does the tournament orga understand under "tank"? Monsters and tanks became pretty much a wash with 8th so saying "no tanks" while allowing monsters with similar stats would seem a bit weird to me.
If such monsters are still allowed, a Quad Fusion Commander would still have a purpose I'd say.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 323

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#25 » Sep 21 2017 11:42

Panzer wrote:Well what does the tournament orga understand under "tank"? Monsters and tanks became pretty much a wash with 8th so saying "no tanks" while allowing monsters with similar stats would seem a bit weird to me.
If such monsters are still allowed, a Quad Fusion Commander would still have a purpose I'd say.


Agreed, I was assuming ANYTHING with big wounds was going to count for this. If that's not the case and things like dreadnoughts and walkers are allowed(weird but ok) then keep the QFC since he has literally no equal in wrecking big wound things.

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#26 » Sep 21 2017 02:32

It specifically says Non-Walker vehicles for this round. So it is not just me? This all seems a bit out of the norm right?
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Panzer
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Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#27 » Sep 21 2017 02:39

Restricting non-walker vehicles but not walker and monster is ridiculous unless there is a narrative reason for it lol

But well it's a low point tournament. Those are never exactly balanced are meant to be taken not too seriously in the first place anyway.

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#28 » Sep 21 2017 05:03

Panzer wrote:Restricting non-walker vehicles but not walker and monster is ridiculous unless there is a narrative reason for it lol

But well it's a low point tournament. Those are never exactly balanced are meant to be taken not too seriously in the first place anyway.



Well the whole thing is about getting as many points over the long run of the tournament, We will eventually get to the 1.5k 2.5k games later on in the month long tournament but these early points seem a bit too... easy?
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 105

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#29 » Sep 21 2017 06:15

I would expect supreme command, patrol, battalion detachments, and possibly a heavy support detachment based on my experience with a 750 event I played. The event host obviously hates vehicles and made them extremely disadvantagous. 500 points is not a lot which leads me to suspect your meta has a decent number of people just starting. So I would expect a lot of toughness 4 and 5 models with possibly a Terminator-equivalent Squad being the heavy-hitter of most enemy detachments. I think CIB commanders x3 is the way to go. I was never good at pulling punches at playing games. People won't like it if you're winning regardless of what you're playing with. Losing just doesn't feel good. If your opponents are losing, my gaming experience shown me that they will actually still enjoy the game a little if 1. you're showing them something that they haven't seen before and 2. they have more of interaction/involvement with what you are doing. That's why your opponents will seem salty with Commander spam and will have less fun. My problem is I I only like to try as close to 'optimum' as possible without worrying if my opponent will enjoy what I present, I'm there to test an idea. I approach MTG tournaments the same way. In casual non pay to enter events I'll play nicer, since I didn't pay for them to be my opponent (aka 'forced to play' against me as an opponent.) Pay events also have prizes, so it encourages more aggressive play styles so pulling punches at the end of the day really doesn't seem to do you any actual favors. If anything you're denying your opponent the chance to grow stronger because you aren't challenging them to try to beat your best, thus limiting their growth potential as a player. This is all my opinion on playing games, and I accept giving and receiving ruthlessness. However-

An alternative to Commander spam would be trying out something uncommon. If I was playing, I would try a list out like this because this because it seems fun to me while allowing me to get points.


++ Patrol (CP +0) (Tau Empire) [500 Pts, 2 Pwr] ++

+ Troops +

Strike Team [80 Pts]: 5x Additional Fire Warriors

+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuit [123 Pts]: 3x Burst Cannon, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon,1 shield drone, 3x XV25

XV8 Crisis [255 Pts]: 9x Flamer, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, 3x XV8

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [42 Pts, 2 Pwr]: Markerlight

++ Total: [500 Pts, 2 Pwr] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The idea is you can pick off some units with the striker team Cadre synergy. The stealth team can infiltrate close to your opponent preferably without line-of-sight. And then you just drop in with a homing beacon on your first turn with flamer units in range. The gun drones come with your suits in the Manta strike. Gun drones get buffed by your stealth suits. If the stealth suits died even with a shield drone accompanying them, your plan B is to Manta strike your suites in a position where you can get close enough to use flamers on the following turn. A cool thing about this type of strategy is your flaming units are a very scary unit to charge into in a infantry base meta. This list also can surprise you opponent with cadre meeting up with the gun drones for a lot of Dakka. Previous posts on this site suggests that crisis units strength helps average out their melee capabilities to be OK in combat. So if you heavily weaken a unit with flame throwers and go in for a hard-to-hit but Likely-to-wound attack charge might help your points at the end of the event. Also being able to fly away after combat and roast squads will help table your opponent.

Side notes: ATS seems decent for this event to help the consolidating/combat point incentive. Kroot spam is also a configuration I would consider with an ethereal due to melee incentive in an infantry meta.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1554

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#30 » Sep 21 2017 07:24

A few thoughts.

Yojimbob wrote:If nobody is taking tanks, he shouldn't need a 4x fusion commander.

With no Lascannon Predators, Repulsors, and sneaky Anti-Tank units hidden in light transports, I think things like Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Y'vahras, Dreadknights, etc will be very powerful in this tournament. The Fusion Commander may yet be viable, but it's a risk.

Yojimbob wrote:Just make sure you have a few available lights for this since you go from 83.33% to 97.2% with a single light for a commander. Pretty good odds with that.

I agree here, at least a few Markerlights will be very useful.

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:Well what does the tournament orga understand under "tank"? Monsters and tanks became pretty much a wash with 8th so saying "no tanks" while allowing monsters with similar stats would seem a bit weird to me.
If such monsters are still allowed, a Quad Fusion Commander would still have a purpose I'd say.


Agreed, I was assuming ANYTHING with big wounds was going to count for this. If that's not the case and things like dreadnoughts and walkers are allowed(weird but ok) then keep the QFC since he has literally no equal in wrecking big wound things.

I think Monster-keyword units, Dreadnoughts, Sentinels, etc will be fair game in this mission.

-

With these points in mind, here are some other ideas for 500pt lists. You can really take Drones in whatever configuration you like, since there are no Victory Points nor is there First Blood!

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 2x Gun Drones (164)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Marker Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS; 1x Marker Drone (160)
Total: 500 - Command Points: 4 (1 Supreme Command Detachment)

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 2x Gun Drones (164)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 4x Gun Drones (235)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 3x Marker Drones, 1x Shield Drone (38)
Total: 501 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones, 2x Marker Drones (84)
Total: 499 - Command Points: 1 (2 Auxiliary Support Detachments)

-

Okay that last one was more for fun :D

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#31 » Sep 23 2017 07:21

So I ended up taking this list:

HQ

Commander 4 fusion / 2 Shield Drones
Commander 3 Cyclic Ion / 1 DRONE CONTROLLER / 2 Gun Drones
Cadre Fireblade / 2 Gun Drones

Fast Attack

Gun Drones x 4
Gun Drones x 5
Gun Drones x 5



I figured hey, I have all these drones, maybe a drone controller would be helpful. Yes. Yes it was. Immensely.



He brought

1 Tactical squad with a Heavy Bolter and a Plasma
1 Sqaud of Intercessors with Stalker Bolters
1 Jump Librarian


The Fusion commander ended up being a bit of a waste as he only brought infantry but it was good for blowing up cover saves.

[[[REPORT]]]

The first game was pretty quick as it was a double V deployment. He set up most of his guys in a building and I stole the inititive for first turn and completely melted everything with 108 BS4+ S5 shots against T 4. Absolute. Murder. Turn 2 finish.

Second game was waaaaay more fun.

It was a weird deployment, Kinda like a T.

He had the top part of the T and I had the bottom. He decided to set up in some trenches that were on top of a hill at the top of the T. Luckily there were some LoS blocking buildings around. I was able to get up pretty close by ducking behind cover all the time. Turn 3 was where it all went down.

Looking across there was a good 10-20 inches of no-mans land between the buildings I was hiding behind and the trenches. Knowing this, my Drone Controller Commander decided it was time for Mont'ka! With a mighty yell (of 2 voices) the Drones, Cadre, and the Commander all rushed out and advanced into the no-mans land and fired of a mighty volley with the handful of drones that were left (I think about 80 shots against a 2 up armor save). The fusion commander landed and dueled the Librarian which cost the lives of both brave warriors. Managing to force what was left of the tactical squad into a retreat I prepared for the counter charge form the intercessors.

After a rain of fire I was left with 2 drones /Cadre/ and the Ion commander. I picked off 2 more guys with over watch and was left fighting 5-6 Intercessors ( 1 sergeant and 5 reg). They immediately ate the drones which left me with my last 2 guys.

Who gave the Fireblade 5 wounds and 3 attacks? hitting on 3+!?!! It was insanity. I agreed to stay in combat with him (feeling bad for the first game) and the Fireblade lasted 2 more turns killing an Intercessor! The Commander though! Holy hell killed the entire squad. With his fists. How does that happen?!?! We decided to keep playing until someone one the combat (19 turns btw) which ended up with 1 wound left on my commander and 1 wound left on his sergeant.

With a tired arm I struck the last punch and ended this mighty battle. I gave him the game as I was happy with my first win and the second game was just so intense. We both left the store with smiles on our faces so I think it was a good game.

[[[End of report]]]

Anyways thank you guys for your help in trying to figure out this weird match up.
Next round is going to be even more intense. 2 1000 pts with:
1 pts for Deep striking and killing a model in CC without suffering casualties
2 pts for winning with an Ally
3pts for killing a character with only smite


What are these rules?!?
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3134

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#32 » Sep 24 2017 04:38

Froglift wrote:
1 pts for Deep striking and killing a model in CC without suffering casualties
2 pts for winning with an Ally
3pts for killing a character with only smite


What are these rules?!?

Those sound so anti-T'au it's not even funny anymore. :-(

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1554

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#33 » Sep 24 2017 09:11

Panzer wrote:
Froglift wrote:
1 pts for Deep striking and killing a model in CC without suffering casualties
2 pts for winning with an Ally
3pts for killing a character with only smite


What are these rules?!?

Those sound so anti-T'au it's not even funny anymore. :-(


Haha, I agree here! What does "ally" mean here? Like Imperial Guard and Space Marines in the same army, or something like that?

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#34 » Sep 24 2017 03:15

I honestly have no idea. Apparently we are supposed to grab another tournament player and ally with them
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1554

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#35 » Sep 24 2017 06:56

Froglift wrote:I honestly have no idea. Apparently we are supposed to grab another tournament player and ally with them


Ooh, that's interesting! If you find someone with an assault-y army, then you can design an army that's all about supporting assault units.

To go from 500 points to 1000 points, what other models do you have?

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: 500pts Strange Rules Do You Think This Is Enough?

Post#36 » Sep 24 2017 08:14

Arka0415 wrote:
Ooh, that's interesting! If you find someone with an assault-y army, then you can design an army that's all about supporting assault units.

To go from 500 points to 1000 points, what other models do you have?


Well I have my other thread going which you have commented on but I have:

2 boxes of Pathfinders
2 broadsides
1 Piranha
6 Crisis Suits
10 Breachers
40 Fire Warriors
3 Cadre Fireblades
4 Ethereals
Numerous Drones
Devilfish
3 Commanders (1 as Coldstar but can proxy)
6 Stealth Suits

That is everything that I own
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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