Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#1 » Sep 21 2017 12:42

My background:
I started July 29, 2017. I bought a mostly unassembled army off Craigslist for $120. It included a painted coldstar commander, painted devilfish, a complete Start Collecting: Tau sprue set, additional assembled 10 pulse rifle models, 3 additional unbuilt crisis suites, a built 10 man pathfinder team, and over 16 tactical drones. I store-bought a Commander Shadowsun, Cadre fireblade, and Darkstrider, a stealth suit team, rulebook, and index. I ebayed another 12 assembled firewalkers, poorly casted ethereal, and 34 Kroot (in the mail). I only played 9 games. I won 1 casual multiplayer game, played a wierd scoring multiplayer store event (3 games), lost 3 casual 1v1 games, and the other 2 additional games ended unfinished. I made it a point to read and understand the rulebook core rules. I supplemented my learning with the all the free 8th edition tutorials from miniwargaming.com and have been reading posts on here all the time from the shadows. I dedicate one whole day each week to strictly painting. I am terribly slow at painting, but my finished models impress my friends (including non-Warhammer ones). I come from a competitive MTG background.

Battleplan:
I plan on getting the stormsurge this Friday. It looks like a fun model and it really excites me to play, build and magnetise. I like the gaudy firepower it brings. As a shooting army, my shooting felt underwhelming and I felt outgunned often. I feel the Stormsurge gives me the firepower I was expecting. If it dies at least it was probably good bait to draw my opponents' best units open to my crisis manta strikes. Between the 6 crisis and a stormsurge eating a lot of points, my unit count maybe a size that might allow me to go first often. Since I expect the meta to have a lot of point sink models, I am trying to make sure I have some good tank killer units. The event coming in two weeks is a 1750 point event. I have to still finish my 7 CIB conversions this weekend. My CIB crisis team is my frontline manta strike team. My MP crisis is a longer range harassment/support unit to lure enemy away from objectives or wittle down short range units. Coldstar will be the warlord with the FNP effect. He should be decent for objectives and assaulting small units. I plan on painting his shield generator support system on his arm like captain America's shield for lulz. Shadowsun helps to Mont'ka the Stormsurge into a good shooting position turn 1 and Kauyon turn 2. She also packs some powerful midrange fire power and can use the command drone on a pathfinder team to help get marker lighters off to a good start. Firewarriors are my Stormsurge safety screen. Pathfinders offer additional screening with vanguard and markerlight support, with ability to shoot at enemy infantry. My 6 command points will be primarily prioritized for seizing initiative, Stormsurge invulnerable save, and occasional shooting phase support (damage rolls). I think the list should be equipped to interact well with hoard, big monster/tank lists, heavy units in reserve, and shooty armies. I plan to get regular commanders but not before this event, unfortunately. It is my next thing to grab, believe it.

The list:

++ Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (CP +0) (Tau Empire) [496 Pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge (obtaining Friday)[496 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missile, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, 2x Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker
. Burst Cannons: 2x Burst Cannon


++ Battalion (CP +3) (Tau Empire) [1254 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Strike Team [43 Pts]: Markerlight

Strike Team [40 Pts]

Strike Team [40 Pts]

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis(magnetised) [383 Pts]: Drone Controller, 8x Missile Pod, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, 3x XV8

XV8 Crisis (magnetised) [323 Pts]: 8x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Drone Controller, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, 3x XV8

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar (magnetised support system slots)[150 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, High-output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator

Commander Shadowsun [195 Pts]: 2x MV52 Shield Drone, MV62 Command-link Drone

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [40 Pts]: 5x Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [40 Pts]: 5x Markerlight

++ Total: [ 1750 Pts] ++

This is my first post on here, please be gentle. :P lol (Also I wrote this post twice. The original was deleted due to login time out when I tried to post it)
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Sep 21 2017 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 89

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#2 » Sep 21 2017 01:50

I thin'k you'd be better off dropping shadowsun, adding a cadre fireblade and bulking up the fire warrior squads. That way your infantry can axtually pose a real threat.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#3 » Sep 21 2017 05:40

I like the thought of cadre. If he was able to get close to an enemy unit, he could boost a surprise manta drone strike drones as well. If I was to play cadre I would need to bring a Pulse Accelerator Drone. Shadowsun is negotiable. If I was to cut her for anything it would probably would be for a devilfish with two five man breacher squads with darkstrider (dropping two striker squads.) Hmm that actually sounds better than Shadowsun. It would cut my deployable units making it easier to go first. I would go from 10 to 8 deployment units, increasing the chance that I can use my Stormsurge turn 1. This in turn increases its turn 1 survivability odds. My screen units would be 1 five man striker and 2 five man pathfinders team(which I can make one unit for even less deployable units). Thank you, for questioning her usefulness. It got me to consider Devilfish-breacher squad. A bonus is Shadowsun is not painted. My fish is painted well (enclave theme) from previous owner and my breacher unit is actually the unit I'm painting right now by chance and I expect to be done this weekend (Original Tau Sept theme : but instead of Tau light ochre I am going with a more eye friendly yellowish Zamesi Desert theme). It costs about the same amount of points. If I can find room for cadre to fit in the fish then I can do a cool synergy I have not yet seen mentioned on this site. The way I read it Cadre would boost the devil fish attached drones pulse carbines WITHOUT disembarking the drones. Extra 4 shots is a cool synergy for a 10 wound model. I would like to make room for Cadre but it's hard. At the moment though I'm on board with a Fish of Fury + Darkstrider.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#4 » Sep 21 2017 06:10

Here is some quick changes to the list...I like it. Thank you for fueling the brainstorm. :biggrin:
++ Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (CP +0) (Tau Empire) [496 Pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [496 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missile, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, 2x Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker
. Burst Cannons: 2x Burst Cannon

+ 'Faction +

Sept Selection: T'au

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Tau Empire) [1252 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Breacher Team (in fish) [40 Pts]

Breacher Team(in fish) [40 Pts]

Strike Team [40 Pts]

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis [383 Pts]: Drone Controller, 8x Missile Pod, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, 3x XV8

XV8 Crisis [323 Pts]: 8x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Drone Controller, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, 3x XV8

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade (in fish) [42 Pts, 2 Pwr]: Markerlight

Commander in XV86 Coldstar [7 Pwr, 150Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, High-output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, 1x Shield Generator

Darkstrider (in fish) [45 Pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team(drone to cut second pathfinder screen team) [52 Pts]: 5x Markerlight, MB3 become drone

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [137 Pts]: 2x Seeker Missile
. Gun Drones: MV1 Gun Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, burst cannon

+ 'Faction +

Sept Selection: T'au

++ Total: [1748 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#5 » Sep 21 2017 08:16

Looks like a fun list! There are a few tweaks we can make though. First, a nearly 400pt XV8 team really isn't going to make its points back. 8 Missile Pods sounds like a lot, but with BS4+ you're going to see 8 hits, 2-4 wounds, maybe 1D3 or 2D3 damage on a vehicle. Let's just drop that squad for the time being. Also, the Fireblade can't buff Breachers, as they don't carry Pulse Rifles or Pulse Carbines. Lastly, there are a few things we can drop outright- the Seeker Missiles on the Devilfish are too inaccurate, the Pathfinders' Drone will give up First Blood too easily. Let's make these changes and see how the list looks.

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

This brings us to a total of 1343 points. First, we need to either cut the Fireblade (he's only buffing 5 Fire Warriors!) or add more Fire Warriors. Let's do the latter, and add 15 more (+120). Next, we can add a trusty Commander with Fusion Blasters- hard to beat that unit! Here's how the list would look now:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Now we're at 1639, almost there! What we need more of, though, is Markerlights. Given the number of units we have, we'd like to get 5 Markerlight hits per turn. So that's 10 firing Markerlights, and a few to spare. So, let's add 11 more Pathfinders for a total of 16 models (+88), and arm 6 of them with Ion Rifles (+24). They're handy little guns. This is what the new Pathfinder squads would look like by the way:

Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (76)

Pop these units in the list (and swap out the old 5x Pathfinder unit) and the final list looks like this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1751 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary)

-

What do you think?

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#6 » Sep 21 2017 09:24

I like your list. I slightly mentioned earlier I have to wait on getting a regular commander (FB). It is a priority to obtain but I rather buy Stormsurge(a more exciting unit for me) Friday and I can't swing both.

You are 100% correct cadre doesn't buff breachers. He is just to fill the 12th seat in the devilfish. He also buffs the fish on disembark. He also has potential to be mean with my CIB crisis units gun drones turning that 24 dakka into 36. The fish can help keep him alive or get him into position. I am considering cutting Cadre or darkstrider for a second pathfinder team. Darkstrider does make one of the 5 breacher team (10 shots @ strength puesdo strength seven , two ap, 1D) able to threaten a bit of damage to a 7 toughness unit (like a vehicle). In previous games with cadre buffing my firewalker, I was losing hard. I actually felt outgunned because the weapons weren't that effective against the targets I was forced to shoot at. Poor deployment didnt help and firewalkers struggled to get into effective and safe rapid fire range. When they did fire with the buff, it didn't seem to do much due to shooting at the only good targets having high save values. They just haven't done the work I wanted them to do. My skills are getting better and so it's getting easier to use them better but I have had a less than good experience with them in all 9 games. Rapid fire weapons also hurt if I try to advance them into position because they can't shoot that turn so it's hard to activate the cadre buff especially without my single pulse accelerator drone to help make rapid fire range more attainable without getting my unit kissing insta-death by charge range. If they get in rapid fire against weak infantry they can remove a few models well, but the counter attack is often devastating against anything with good saves which is something I been always facing incredibly frequently. I have tried a unit of 12 firewalkers and two 5 man additional team at the 750 point event. My 22 firewalkers ,Darkstrider, and Cadre struggled against 3 terminators in a 6 man terminator squad combating me and the third player simultaneously. Their volume is attractive but rapid fire range and lack of ap has made them hard to use effectively for my inexperienced current play skill level.

Unfortunately, crisis suites and their mediocre shooting is the best units in my army at the moment.That's why I'm leaning heavy on them at the moment. To compensate their BS skill I tried including plenty of marker light support. It's an attempt to make the best use of what I have access too. The accompanying drones on both crisis teams have some protection from first blood slightly by being in reserve. Both crisis suite units will probably always be in Manta hold in this list. The coldstar can be in Manta hold or on the field to yeild an early Kauyon with stormsurge. But yes I want to obtain 2-3 commanders when as soon as possible. The last event I tested the MP crisis suites and was actually pleased in the 750 multiplayer event. The unit killed a chaos full 5 wound (warlord- thousand suns ) psycher HQ in OVERWATCH with the 18 strength seven/one ap/D3 damage shots (9 MPs back then). I'm hoping to shoot at a target with 5 lighters on it and change bs to +3 with reroll 1's. Thats why I have included 6 markerlight drones with the MP squad. It's not optimal for points but it's what I have to work with.

Seeker missiles and destroyer missiles are in the list are to do plenty of first turn unsaved mortal wounds with markerlight support to the most dangerous threat on the table.

As for the path finders, I only have 10 and they don't have ions. Your list is enviably nice, I'm not knocking it. I just don't have access to your suggestions, or at least not without giving up buying on a unit I really want to play (Stormsurge) for this event. Speaking of your pathfinders. How can you have units of 8? I thought our index states they come in 5 or 10. The rule book allows up to one under staffed unit but I thought you have to pay full price of the unit if you do that in matched play. Am I missing something?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#7 » Sep 21 2017 07:56

Thanks for all the feedback!

Lostroninsoul wrote:I like your list. I slightly mentioned earlier I have to wait on getting a regular commander (FB). It is a priority to obtain but I rather buy Stormsurge(a more exciting unit for me) Friday and I can't swing both.

That's okay! We can drop the Commander but we'll need another source of anti-tank in that case.

Lostroninsoul wrote:You are 100% correct cadre doesn't buff breachers. He is just to fill the 12th seat in the devilfish. He also buffs the fish on disembark. He also has potential to be mean with my CIB crisis units gun drones turning that 24 dakka into 36. The fish can help keep him alive or get him into position. I am considering cutting Cadre or darkstrider for a second pathfinder team. Darkstrider does make one of the 5 breacher team (10 shots @ strength puesdo strength seven , two ap, 1D) able to threaten a bit of damage to a 7 toughness unit (like a vehicle).

It's true that the Fireblade can help out the XV8 Drones, however, this requires the Devilfish and the XV8s to be in the same place at the same time. Also, thanks for pointing that out- I always forget that Darkstrider can only buff one squad. In that case, definitely combine those Breachers into one 10-model unit. It'll be much more viable. And here's the important thing for you to remember about Darkstrider: he does not increase the "pseudo" strength of guns, rather, he reduces toughness. That means that S6 Breachers, when shooting at T4 Space Marines, count the Marines as T4... meaning the Breachers wound on 2+! That's an amazing trick. Instead of using Darkstrider to threaten tough units, use him to bully T4 units even harder.


Lostroninsoul wrote:In previous games with cadre buffing my firewalker, I was losing hard. I actually felt outgunned because the weapons weren't that effective against the targets I was forced to shoot at. Poor deployment didnt help and firewalkers struggled to get into effective and safe rapid fire range. When they did fire with the buff, it didn't seem to do much due to shooting at the only good targets having high save values. They just haven't done the work I wanted them to do. My skills are getting better and so it's getting easier to use them better but I have had a less than good experience with them in all 9 games.

That's okay! It's tricky to use Fire Warriors when you're new to the game- their 15" rapid-fire range is longer than usual but not that long. The way to use them is to move up the battlefield toward your opponent, while distracting the opponent on one flank with an even greater threat, like a Devilfish or XV8.


[/quote]Speaking of your pathfinders. How can you have units of 8? I thought our index states they come in 5 or 10. The rule book allows up to one under staffed unit but I thought you have to pay full price of the unit if you do that in matched play. Am I missing something?[/quote]
You can take any unit at any number, between the minimum and maximum strength of that unit. Pathfinders are 5-10, so 6, 7, and 9-model Pathfinder squads are okay! Likewise, Fire Warriors are 5-12, so you can take an 11-man Fire Warrior squad if you like! "Under-strength" means fewer than the minimum- like a 4-model squad of Pathfinders, or a 2-model squad of Fire Warriors.

-

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! Let's look at the core of the list again then. We'll remove the Fireblade and Fire Warriors for now.

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Missile Pods, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Marker Drones (383)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders (80)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

That's 1684 points. However, losing the Fusion Commander means we need a little more anti-tank punch. We get plenty of range from the Stormsurge, so let's try swapping the Missile Pod unit for one of the following units:

Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Missile Pods, 3x ATS; 4x Shield Drones (326)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)

Both are powerful units that do better damage-per-point compared to the larger Missile Pod unit. With the 123 points we have left to spend, we need to pick up more Markerlights. Frankly, another 10-man squad of Pathfinders would do the trick, leaving us with 43 points left. Though, 2x8 Pathfinders would be good too, that would leave us with the points to add a nice Drone squad to protect the Stormsurge. Let's do that, and here's how the list would look:

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x CIB; 6x Gun Drones (336)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1750 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#8 » Sep 22 2017 06:09

Thank you for the tips ( firewalker, unit size, Dark Strider ability correction, list of evaluation, and efficiency crisis suites).
You've got me doing a lot of serious hardcore thinking. In fact, thanks to you talking about devilfish and crisis team having to be at the same place same tine, I realize now that it's not so easy to get Cadre and drones together because drones have to get within rapid fire range and can't Manta strike in like I originally thought it would. I will probably try your list out and some casual games with my friends for sure. Possibly even the event

Talking with you also inspired another idea. Reevaluating my list I think it's possible that I can have a good chance to get the first turn by having very few deployment drops. I can utilize the fish to cheat troop choices in for deployment. As I am writing this I have an unrefined idea list as an outrider dettachment. I'm brainstorming a glass cannon list. I'll probably post a list later. The idea is to have three small tactical drone(markerlight) units in the fish and in deployment setup parking it sideways in front of the stormsurge. Then I can set up a screen by releasing for drones 'in front 'of the devil fish within 3 inches and then two units on the side for screening. I could create a 6 man crisis team in Manta strike just imagine what a OverWatch of 18 fusion/mp/CIB would look like:D lol (CIB is probably best option) . Take coldstar and stealth suit and try to max out points. Sounds very glass canon like, which is exactly the way I like to play. I love really potentially powerful strategies even if they are brittle. It's just a thought at the moment I haven't tried measuring the points. After I brew it, I will use your list as a guide to see if it does enough things that I wanted to do. I'm not happy with it I always have your balance list I can make. I did order the stormsurge today ($120 ,no box, ebay est arrival 28th)so it's in the mail. Also my Kroot arrived, so I have those units. I am also considering a funny 20 model Kroot team. Yes battle shock is a real thing but being a Target away from Storm surges is not terrible for a Glass cannon strategy. 20 wounds and a good distraction is a neat idea. They also have some teeth to them if ignored. I'll make a list and post for entertainment.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#9 » Sep 22 2017 08:13

So I made a list as an alternative. I would need to do 4 drone conversions and 16 CIBs.

++ Outrider Detachment (CP +1) (Tau Empire) [1239 Pts, 9 Pwr] ++

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [120 Pts]: 1 unit/20 models

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Bodyguard( manta hold) [677 Pts]: 17x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Drone Controller,Gun Dronex 10, Shield Drone x2, 6x XV8

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar [7 Pwr, 150 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, High-output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator
Ethereal on Drone (warlord-inspiring leader) [50 Pts, 2 Pwr]: Honour Blade, drone rider model

+ Fast Attack (all 3 below in the fish) +

Tactical Drones [40 Pts]: Marker Drone x4
Tactical Drones [40 Pts]: Marker Drone x4
Tactical Drones [40 Pts]: Marker Drone x4


+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [137 Pts]: 2x Seeker Missile
.Gun Drone X2, Burst cannon

++ Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (CP +0) (Tau Empire) [496 Pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [496 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missile, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, 2x Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker 2x Burst Cannon

++ Total: [1750 Pts,] ++


6 deployable units with plenty of models should allow the list to go first and be in range to do a lot of damage and have lots of models to grab and hold objectives. The Ethereal would help the Kroot. The crisis unit looks hilliarious. That unit would have the a very scary overwatch 51 shots @ 7 S/-1ap. Having 4 CP is cool for clutch rerolls. Plays like a glass cannon. I like it. Storm surge should probably drop the velocity tracker for a drone controller since those marker drones will likely be near him.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#10 » Sep 23 2017 01:13

The idea for this list- Manta Strike-deployed units backed up by a Stormsurge- is a good one. However, the other units don't seem to support it all that well. At the end of the day, I don't think the list has enough.Let's see what we can do.

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 17x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 10x Gun Drones, 2x Shield Drones (659)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

At 1309 points, this is the bulk of your list. The Stormsurge is anti-tank and anti-infantry, the XV8s are anti-everything. We need a little more anti-infantry, and of course some Markerlights. I like Pathfinders, but if Marker Drones are your thing let's add those instead:

Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)

Now we're at 1409 with just 341 points left to spend. What we need is anti-infantry, and something to screen the Stormsurge against assault. Let's try a group of Gun Drones and a Fireblade- a great anti-infantry interdiction unit.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

The Gun Drone squads are unbalanced due to their need to fit in the Devilfish; anyway, all these units are only one drop! With these added in, we have 1662 points. Let's fill out the rest with Kroot to guard the Stormsurge. We don't have enough points to buy 20, but we can buy 14.

Troops - 14x Kroot Carnivores (84)

Let's check out the whole list.

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 14x Kroot Carnivores (84)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 17x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 10x Gun Drones, 2x Shield Drones (659)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1746 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary)

-

It's 7 drops, not 6, but that's still very few for a Tau army. It also packs an extra threat, the Devilfish full of Drones, which is great for anti-infantry. What do you think?

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#11 » Sep 23 2017 11:06

Ya that 6 man xv8 squad is there to be anti everything. With a drone squad of 12 gets brings the manta strike to a hardy 30 wounds. Gun drones are generally more useful but I think the list needs the 12 marker lighters for adequate support. So filling the fast attack slot with them seems to be a way to get 'two birds ,one stoned'.If the stormsurge carries a Drone Controller then the first drone squad should get 2 lighters on a target. If the second drones fire on the same target there's a good chance to bring the target to 5 lighters due to bs skill +4 plus reroll ones. If not I have a 3rd group of marker lighters that chance to get 5 on a target. 5 lighters on a target is better for the stormsurge than most tau units due to heavy weapons and destroyer missles. If I am at 5 lighters on a target, I can mark a second target to get 1-2 lighters. It also should get them into some turn one action. The ethereal is nice because it isn't a great "slay the warlord" target. If accompanied by 20 Kroot it's a little out of the way for an easy point. It also makes the Kroot more battle shock friendly. If it meets up with the crisis drone sqaud it will also benefit them as well with it sharing it's leadership 10 aura. If I go first I can give the 20 Kroot FNP. Having a lot of Kroot isn't a bad thing. It makes it a tempting target to shoot at. Every shot pointed at them is a shot not pointed at something I care about. I am actually hoping my opponent tries to wipe them out on their turn to be honest. That leaves another round of solid shooting with crisis and the stormsurge, possibly the 10 gun drones. I like the transport configuration you suggested an I'm looking to doing more with that possibly as pathfinders over gundrones. I need to reevaluate moving come points around.

Last night I wanted to test my previos list out a little. I mock-simulated a damage simulation shooting at your previous list. I used small models to represent full units. I tried to best guesstimate range of the smaller scale using a white board I grided. The small unit size was hard to conceal my strategy. My list went first for deployment. I put two units in reserve and Kroot in the middle of the board and your previous list put 3 units in reserve. I had to put another unit (transport) before your list had to make any decisions about army placement. I assumed I was the player using each list, so I was making choices like "seeing this, how would I respond." The screen your list set up protected the stormsurge in the courner well. I don't think my list crisis suites would be realistically able to target it. (But if they could, if I have 5 marker lights it would be removed with average rolls from overcharged CIB) I simulated shooting turn 1. Your previous list would lose both it's 2 pathfinder squads (all marker lighter support),and tactical drones, 9 wounds on the your list storm surge, 4 wounds on the your list transport. Leaving it to fight back 3 units in reserve, storm surge and a breacher team/dark strider. This was a decent test to see how my idea might fair an opponent screening his units. I didn't simulate the return fire (sheer laziness) so it wasn't a battle rep simulation, it was like a mathhammer-like sim + occasional real dice rolls to see what type of firepower my list might be able to do.

Your list I simulated:
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x CIB; 6x Gun Drones (336)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1750 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment)




The pathfinder teams of 8 are more resilient then I thought the would be. They were vital at keeping back heavy fire power on the your list transport and storm surge. So I may use your recommended unit size for them in future list. Neat idea.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#12 » Sep 23 2017 01:06

++ Outrider Detachment (CP +1) (Tau Empire) [1257 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [120 Pts]: 20 Kroot

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis [643 Pts]: 17x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Drone Controller, MV1 Gun Drone x10, MV4 Shield Drone x 2, 6x XV8

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar [7 Pwr, 144 Pts]: Advanced Targeting System, High-output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones (in the fish)[40 Pts]: Marker Drone x 4
Tactical Drones (in the fish)[40 Pts]: Marker Drone x 4
Tactical Drones (in the fish)[40 Pts]: Marker Drone x 4

Pathfinder Team [93 Pts]: 10 Pathfinders, MB3 Recon Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, MV33 Grav-Inhibitor Drone

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [137 Pts]: 2x Seeker Missile
2 Gun Drones, Burst Cannon

+ 'Faction +

Sept Selection: T'au

++ Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (CP +0) (Tau Empire) [491 Pts] ++
KV128 Stormsurge [491 Pts]:
ATS, Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missile, Drone Controller, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, 2x Smart Missile Systems,2x Burst Cannons
++ Total: [1748 Pts] ++

Replacing an HQ with a Pathfinder team with drones just gives me more fire power for those infantry you mentioned maybe a concern. Having marker lights is also nice and having vanguard let's me threaten to grab objects early. This gives an additional 14 wounds to chew through to absorb Smite spamming. Changing the shield generator on the cold star into a multi tracker allows it to shoot more effectively at infantry units without marker lighter. So the changes gives me access to more markerlight without actually needing to use them while giving me more guns for infantry armies. Still deploys fully in 6 drops while using the models I have

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#13 » Sep 24 2017 09:01

Thanks for all the tactical analysis! There are a few things we can still improve though in your new list- first, again, you need more threats on the field. At this point you only have the big XV8 squad and the Stormsurge. Everything else is just support for those units. Sure they're powerful, but you need more threats. Replacing those Marker Drones with Gun Drones and going for a mechanized Drone unit would fix this issue somewhat- we can add a Fireblade too inside the Devilfish. Also, you really do want a Shield Generator on that Coldstar- with no Drones to defend it, it doesn't take many Lascannons to bring it down. Also, the Pulse Accelerator Drone isn't helping the Pathfinders at all- replace it with a Shield Drone. We can make room for these changes by dropping the Devilfish's Seeker Missiles and a couple of Kroot.

Also, I'll just mention, you have a few incorrectly-costed units: the XV8 team is 659 points not 643, and the Pathfinder team is 108 points not 93. Anyway! Here's your list with a few modifications:

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HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 13x Kroot Carnivores (78)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 6x XV8s w/ 17x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 10x Gun Drones, 2x Shield Drones (659)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 10x Markerlights; 1x Shield Drone, 1x GI Drone, 1x Recon Drone (108)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1748 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary)

-

What do you think?

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#14 » Sep 25 2017 10:35

My battlescribe app is having some issues with the points as well. I only caught the devil fish being off and had to manually correct it on every post. Maybe I should try calculating the points with Excel in the future. Unfortunately, I don't have that many gun drones and most of my drones are glued.I have 9 marker lighter glued, 12 gun drones (most glued), 2 ds8 converted gun drones for the fish, one unassembled drone, 2 used drones in the mail, 2 shield drones from Shadowsun, and the pathfinder special drones. I like your list ideas and I'll try to sculpt my list in that direction as I grow my list to a 2000 Point list outside of this event. I may break drones apart glued drones in the winter for magentization. For now Ill recalculate and reevaluate my list by hand. (Edit: I just fixed the app)

Maybe I can have the fish have 2 tactical drone units and a darkstrider. Unload the drones. Advance some adjacent breachers. Advance the fish close enough to the breacher team to embark. Embark and yell 'yeehaw'and the following turn maybe get to go "pew pew pew". I'm not sure if this idea works with transport rules. Do you know?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#15 » Sep 25 2017 08:03

Lostroninsoul wrote:Maybe I can have the fish have 2 tactical drone units and a darkstrider. Unload the drones. Advance some adjacent breachers. Advance the fish close enough to the breacher team to embark. Embark and yell 'yeehaw'and the following turn maybe get to go "pew pew pew". I'm not sure if this idea works with transport rules. Do you know?


If you have Fire Warriors or Breachers, you could very easily rebuild this list to use them. For Fire Warriors, just replace the 5x+6x Gun Drones with 5x+6x Fire Warriors, or for Breachers try a list like this:

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 14x Kroot Carnivores (84)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 6x XV8s w/ 17x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 10x Gun Drones, 2x Shield Drones (659)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 10x Markerlights; 1x Shield Drone, 1x GI Drone, 1x Recon Drone (108)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (496)

Total: 1749 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary)

-

This would definitely be a viable list too! You even get a bonus Kroot Carnivore with the points savings. What do you think?

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#16 » Sep 25 2017 09:55

Why the GI and shield drone over the pulse accelerator drone? Your list is more "stable" than what I had in mind for sure.
My Stormsurge has arrived. I am currently painting my army traditional tau Sept theme but I think the stormsurge screams to be painted Vior'la theme, so I'll probably make an exception.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#17 » Sep 25 2017 10:28

Lostroninsoul wrote:Why the GI and shield drone over the pulse accelerator drone? Your list is more "stable" than what I had in mind for sure.

With Pathfinders, the Pulse Accelerator only serves to increase the range of their Pulse Carbines... which, frankly, you will never use because you will always be firing their Markerlights instead. However, we'd like to keep the Grav Inhibitor Drone alive (as it can protect our Pathfinders from assaults), so the Shield Drone will help with that.

Lostroninsoul wrote:My Stormsurge has arrived. I am currently painting my army traditional tau Sept theme but I think the stormsurge screams to be painted Vior'la theme, so I'll probably make an exception.

Elite Tau Sept units are often given the Tau Sept color scheme (ochre and white), but in reverse. So the armor is all white, but the helmet and sept marks and other markings are orange. Very similar to Vior'la (ochre instead of red) but would be true to the Tau Sept color scheme. Could be interesting!

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 101

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#18 » Sep 26 2017 05:20

Elite Tau Sept units are often given the Tau Sept color scheme (ochre and white), but in reverse. So the armor is all white, but the helmet and sept marks and other markings are orange. Very similar to Vior'la (ochre instead of red) but would be true to the Tau Sept color scheme. Could be interesting!

Thanks for the idea. This has been most invaluable :)

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