Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#55 » Oct 11 2017 12:49

Stealth Suits are definitely more of a distraction/harass unit.
But I disagree that their only purpose is the Homing Beacon. Homing Beacons are nice if your list needs it (Flamer Crisis or needing the half range for Fusion Blaster Commander) but they are a decent unit on their own as well.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#56 » Oct 11 2017 07:14

For Lostroninsoul:

Lostroninsoul wrote:Yes, that's a lot of Kroot. I figure they will be good at objectives, screening, or ambushing targets. I want to see how effective ethereal is at reducing battleshock, how much of a distraction target the kroot become in the larger numbers, and what type of damage kroot can do in such large squads. Running 20 kroot with up to 40 shots (rapid fire)and can charge into battle seems like a neat uncommon thing for a tau player to do.

20 Kroot I can understand using- personally I wouldn't do it, but I can understand their battlefield role. You had 40 in that other list though, so I was surprised! :D

Lostroninsoul wrote:Stealthsuits: I have the stealthsuits but I'm not crazy for the 12 shots at 4 bs for 90 points. 4 shots from kroot at the same points with more range and rapid fire potential. The 6 wounds is OK and -1 to hit is fantastic.The -1 to hit is cool. I would be tempted to take shield generators to max out on obnoxiousness.

...

Please tell me more about the stealth suits. I only primed mine and haven't used them yet. What is so great about them?

You got it- Stealthsuits may not have immense firepower, but their durable. Really, really durable. They look like infantry, but anti-infantry weapons do almost nothing to them. Space Marines need 72 shots to take down 3 Stealthsuits. Imperial Guardsmen need 162 shots. Conscripts need an absurd 324 shots... and this is out of cover! Put them in cover, and those numbers go to 144, 324, and 648 shots! Your opponent will nearly always underestimate the amount of firepower needed to get rid of a Stealthsuit squad.

Lostroninsoul wrote:I am curious to try out the coldstar with a multitracker +ats for 144 points. The cold star would be easier to shoot down but I'm intending to give my opponent bigger problems to focus their bigger guns on. I am not relying on it surviving so I'm not expecting it to live if it goes behind enemy lines. If it hides behind other units then the shield is useless any way. I think the 10 shots with auto-reroll 1's ,BS +2, 20 movement , -1 ap, and has the ability to charge the remaining survivors if it didn't 20" advance could be good.

...

I feel it would be comparable damage output to CiB commander without the overcharge mode for that battlefield role. CiB Comander (reg)has 12 shots versus coldstar's 10. Cold star would rarely miss any of its hit rolls and spikes it's damage on the MP.

Remember that the Multi-Tracker means the Coldstar must fire all of its weapons at the same target, and the Missile Pod and High-Output Burst Cannon are really not made to fire at the same targets. The High-Output Burst Cannon likes to chew up targets like Imperial Guardsmen and Ork Boyz (low toughness and/or low save) while the Missile Pod likes to hit targets that are either T3 multi-wound, or T6/7 multi-wound.

Lostroninsoul wrote:Current list idea

...

Not a be all, end all list. Just a flavor of the week. 15 markerlights. It still deploys quick . It's subject to tweaking still.

With this list, I'd say just modify your wargear a little and you're good. Stealthsuits can go a little lighter on the wargear (Shas'vre doesn't need the Markerlight + Target Lock), personally I'd recommend going with 2xCIB+1xATS on the XV8s (I changed my mind, see the recent thread about that), and the Coldstar should have a Shield Generator. These changes would save you 46 points, enough to bring the two Pathfinder squads to 8 models each. What do you think?

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Arka0415
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#57 » Oct 11 2017 07:25

For Shas'O Ora:

Shas'O Ora wrote:
So you're okay with Commander spam? If you enjoy playing it, that's the most important fun! (And, of course, if you enjoy playing it and it's really competitive, even better!) :biggrin:

You are right! Saying the one thing doing the other - not very consistent. :D
I would like to have a list without commander-spam to avoid complainings right at the beginning.
I would like to have elite-troops which are able of doing the job as good as the Commanders but with replacing one Fusion-Commander with a Ghostkeel I feel like losing some percentages of effectivity.

Don't worry, I wasn't calling you out or anything! :D Commander spam can be fun to play! Just don't feel pressured to play a super-competitive list if you don't like to do that.

Shas'O Ora wrote:Haven´t thought about this so far. You´re right, again. I also prefer having one cadre which can deal with everything.
Only big change would be exchanging one Fusion-Commander with the Ghostkeel.
Is this already tailoring?

To me, "tailoring" is changing a list depending on your opponent. Armies are so varied these days that you can't really guess what an opponent might bring based on what faction they are alone. Sure, the Ghostkeel might be better against some Guard armies, but against Leman Russ spam? Super-Heavies? You just can't know. It's better to have a solid "take-all-comers" list that you feel comfortable playing, in my opinion. Then again though, it really depends on your local meta.

Shas'O Ora wrote:Do you think Games Workshop will take actions to avoid Commander-Spam with release of the Codex?

In my opinion, yeah, I think they're going to. I have three Commanders, and I bet I'll be using two when the Codex comes out. Maybe one! But the Codex isn't coming out until at least February or March, that's my guess.

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Shas'O Ora
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#58 » Oct 13 2017 09:09

Don't worry, I wasn't calling you out or anything! :D Commander spam can be fun to play! Just don't feel pressured to play a super-competitive list if you don't like to do that.


Don´t has to be super-competitive but being able to win of course makes more fun :D

To me, "tailoring" is changing a list depending on your opponent. Armies are so varied these days that you can't really guess what an opponent might bring based on what faction they are alone. Sure, the Ghostkeel might be better against some Guard armies, but against Leman Russ spam? Super-Heavies? You just can't know. It's better to have a solid "take-all-comers" list that you feel comfortable playing, in my opinion. Then again though, it really depends on your local meta.


I think the better "take-all-comers" army for every situation would be the one with the Ghostkeel, right?
Every day it´s getting harder not to order one :crafty:

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#59 » Oct 13 2017 01:13

Shas'O Ora wrote:I think the better "take-all-comers" army for every situation would be the one with the Ghostkeel, right?
Every day it´s getting harder not to order one :crafty:

I get OCD about my "not haves" too. It's like an itch that won't go away until scratched. Luckily for me a ghostkneel isn't in my scopes and I have enough unit selection to keep me busy for a while. I think another commander is better then a ghostkneel. I'm also pretty partial to Crisis suits as my elites. I've considered the ghostkneel. I haven't played one,yet. I just don't like his weapon configuration. His range isn't synergistic with his hard to hit abilities he gets from drones. That's how I talked myself out of obsessing to obtain one.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#60 » Oct 13 2017 10:35

Shas'O Ora wrote:I think the better "take-all-comers" army for every situation would be the one with the Ghostkeel, right?
Every day it´s getting harder not to order one :crafty:

Honestly that's a tough question- it comes down to this: Do you want a unit that's mathematically powerful but whose role isn't needed in the list (like a Fusion Commander) or a unit that's mathematically only mid-tier but whose role could be viable (like a Ghostkeel)?

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Shas'O Ora
Shas
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#61 » Oct 14 2017 05:23

Honestly that's a tough question- it comes down to this: Do you want a unit that's mathematically powerful but whose role isn't needed in the list (like a Fusion Commander) or a unit that's mathematically only mid-tier but whose role could be viable (like a Ghostkeel)?


Sounds like you are trending towards Ghostkeel :)
an directly leads to my next question:
Which roles could be filled with the Ghostkeel?

I read about securing the flank with EWO. But till know my experience was that with 1750 points there is always one enemy focus most time directed towards my gunline.
So I planned to use him with ATS and TL to support the gunline.

Or are there some synergies in combinatin with other units, I haven´t noticed yet?
I could not see the use of Stealthsuits either till I learnt how to use them here. :D

Again thanks for all the support, feels like having a personal trainer for questions of the Greater Good ;)


I get OCD about my "not haves" too. It's like an itch that won't go away until scratched. Luckily for me a ghostkneel isn't in my scopes and I have enough unit selection to keep me busy for a while. I think another commander is better then a ghostkneel. I'm also pretty partial to Crisis suits as my elites. I've considered the ghostkneel. I haven't played one,yet. I just don't like his weapon configuration. His range isn't synergistic with his hard to hit abilities he gets from drones. That's how I talked myself out of obsessing to obtain one


The way you talked yourself out of obsessing to obtain a Ghostkeel just leads me to thinking about the use of a Riptide in my army - not really helpful moneywise :P
I think I can hold off myself till we have the Codex, not to buy things which are getting useless afterwards.
But after the release money will flow - isn´t that what a new Codex is made for? :P

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#62 » Oct 14 2017 04:48

I personally am not to worried about the codex update.

What roles would your riptide fill that you currently don't have access too(is the role(s )worth filling or already filled good enough)?

Second question: what units can do the roles better that you don't have(is there a option out there that can)

P.s. i picked a stormsurge as my' riptide ' :-p
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Oct 14 2017 11:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#63 » Oct 14 2017 08:46

Shas'O Ora wrote:
Honestly that's a tough question- it comes down to this: Do you want a unit that's mathematically powerful but whose role isn't needed in the list (like a Fusion Commander) or a unit that's mathematically only mid-tier but whose role could be viable (like a Ghostkeel)?


Sounds like you are trending towards Ghostkeel :)
an directly leads to my next question:
Which roles could be filled with the Ghostkeel?

Honestly, I think I'm trending toward neither. It really depends on the other roles in the list. So far, has anyone "decided" on a list in this thread? I feel like there are a few options floating around. Anyway, the Ghostkeel's "role" (when it's armed with the CIR and Burst Cannons) is to skirmish between 18"-24" range hitting elite infantry or light vehicles. Via skirmishing, a high wound count, and its stealth rules, you'll find it to be very durable. Like most Tau units, it's durability isn't in question, rather, the problem is it's somewhat lackluster firepower.

Shas'O Ora wrote:I read about securing the flank with EWO. But till know my experience was that with 1750 points there is always one enemy focus most time directed towards my gunline.
So I planned to use him with ATS and TL to support the gunline.

This is definitely how to use it. If you're running a CIR Ghostkeel, use TL+ATS to allow better skirmishing. If you're using an Fusion Ghostkeel, use TL+Stims (but it's still not a competitive loadout really). The Ghostkeel is all about skirmishing, using it's stealth rules to dodge anti-tank fire and its high toughness to shake off anti-infantry fire.

Shas'O Ora wrote:Again thanks for all the support, feels like having a personal trainer for questions of the Greater Good ;)

Thanks! Here's the cheesy truth though: the most important personal trainer is... you! Take one of the lists we've talked about here, try it out on the tabletop, and learn how it works! You might find synergies, quirks, or weaknesses that we or I have overlooked! :D

Shas'O Ora wrote:I think I can hold off myself till we have the Codex, not to buy things which are getting useless afterwards.

See, back in 6th and 7th edition I never worried about this. I mean, how bad could a unit really get? Then I saw the 8th Edition rules for the Riptide! :P

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#64 » Oct 14 2017 11:36

Arka0415 wrote:So far, has anyone "decided" on a list in this thread?

Currently working on a 1500 point event list,

my 2 k I'm still tinkering around this core

Stormsurge [496pts]:Burst,Pulse driver, Shield,VT,ats
Commander [176pts]: 4x FB 2x MV4 Shield Drone
(TWO)XV8 Crisis [323ptsx2]:6xGun Drone, 8x Cibs, DC
8-10Pathfinder Team [~80pts] blame arka
Darkstrider [45pts]
Breacher Team [ 80pts]:
TY7 Devilfish [,127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone
Core=1650



Arka0415 wrote:See, back in 6th and 7th edition I never worried about this. I mean, how bad could a unit really get? Then I saw the 8th Edition rules for the Riptide! :P


Well as a new person speculating. I think the units we have will barely change with the codex. Changing it too much can off balance and undermine the work GW has put in to make 8th edition play as it has. Units that aren't broken stand the best chance to not get further nerfed. Commanders are high risk of nerfing. But even that's no guarantee that will or won't be done. Changing units too much is a risky move because it can discourage players to continue playing. 8th edition just was rolled out and they did a lot of changes, those changes brought in players, they don't want to scare of their customers by massive changes. Also they want us to buy the new codex, they don't want to do it by "buy this book , it will make the units you want to play ,suck".

This is my thought process and speculation

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Shas'O Ora
Shas
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#65 » Oct 15 2017 05:03

Thanks! Here's the cheesy truth though: the most important personal trainer is... you! Take one of the lists we've talked about here, try it out on the tabletop, and learn how it works! You might find synergies, quirks, or weaknesses that we or I have overlooked!


Yes, I know that nothing can beat personal experience and that I can´t outsource all the thinking part to you ;)
But with not being able to play a lot of games (because my community is spread all around Germany because of work) it is very helpful not to start at zero.

So far, has anyone "decided" on a list in this thread?


Yes, I decided to use your suggested list last time and after personal experience and further advices from your side I am going to go into next battle with this revised list, including again some of your alternativ suggestions.

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealth Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller, 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)

Just one more question:
Because you suggested the use of the All-CIB-XV8s with the DC and 6x Gun Drones, and this unit is in Lostroninsoul´s list, too.
Now mathhammer says that CIB-XV8s are more effectiv with ATS and I think I read that you support this loadout, too.

How would you revise this unit?
Adding ATS and one DC reduces CIBs to only 5. Or is it better to omit DC for a CIB and let the Drones rely on markerlights?
Unfortunately, looking at my math skills it is better not to do mathhammer on my own :D

What roles would your riptide fill that you currently don't have access too(is the role(s )worth filling or already filled good enough)?


It is not really because of tactical thoughts. Mostly it is because I want to have a new toy.
But I think I am able to surpress this wishes at least till I have to look for alternatives for Commander-spam after the release of our codex. :D

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#66 » Oct 15 2017 08:47

Lostroninsoul wrote:8th edition just was rolled out and they did a lot of changes, those changes brought in players, they don't want to scare of their customers by massive changes. Also they want us to buy the new codex, they don't want to do it by "buy this book , it will make the units you want to play ,suck".

Will the Index-Codex shift be as big as the release of a new edition? No, not really. However, Tau aren't in a good place, our index is weak and many of our units aren't mathematically viable. Assuming (hopefully) that points changes, stratagems, and Sept rules make our Codex actually good, we'll suddenly see a large number of units (Broadsides, XV8s, Ethereals, Fire Warriors) become viable again. If this happens, that'll be a huge change, as we'll all need to reconsider what's "competitive" and what's "viable" in 8th Edition again.

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Arka0415
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#67 » Oct 15 2017 11:00

Shas'O Ora wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)

I like this list quite a bit- however, my own thinking on a few things has evolved, so there are a few changes I'd make just based on new experience and thinking. I'll get to those in a bit.

Shas'O Ora wrote:Because you suggested the use of the All-CIB-XV8s with the DC and 6x Gun Drones, and this unit is in Lostroninsoul´s list, too.
Now mathhammer says that CIB-XV8s are more effectiv with ATS and I think I read that you support this loadout, too.

This question has been bugging me for months now, but I'm pretty sure that when you factor in (a) the reduced cost of the 2xCIB+ATS build and (b) the diminishing returns from losing Gun Drones, the ATS loadout is actually mathematically superior. You can find my reasoning here:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26635

Anyway, here are my thoughts with about the list:

1. This is a new change, but I'm now thinking that two 6-model teams of Breachers in a Devilfish are more effective than the 10-model team with Darkstrider. This offers a cheaper, more points-efficient squad that is additionally more effective against T3 units.

2. I'd switch the XV8 team to the new 2xCIB+ATS build, and discard the Drone Controller. Again, diminishing returns on the opportunity cost of the support system.

3. Since your list has three Fusion Commanders, you don't need the Fusion Blaster on the Stealthsuits.

4. All of these changes save you 57 points. We can use these points to both increase increase the number of Fire Warriors slightly and build two Battalion detachments, and add more Ion weapons and split the Pathfinders into three squads.

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 1747 - Command Points: 10 (2 Battalion Detachments, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

This list has a lot of Command Points, but it's also 15 drops, which is more than average. The Seeker Missiles on the Devilfish were added as an afterthought by the way. Unless you're using Chapter Approved or ITC rules, that might be a deal-breaker. Here's a list with fewer drops, if you're worried about that:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)

Total: 1749 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Supreme Command Detachment)

-

Either of those look interesting?

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Shas'O Ora
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#68 » Oct 16 2017 03:59

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors (48)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)


1735 Points. Already adopted :)

Just changed one Pathfinder-Team to 6x Markerlights. Really don´t want to buy a third box of Pathfinders.

After my first game with the new rules I already thought that small infantry-teams have an advantage with the new moral-system, cause you are not losing soldiers because of this. Team extinguished through enemy fire or still fighting ;)
Even makes more sense fluffwise. High trained specialised Teams like they are used in our military today and not waves after waves of infantry like WWI.
Everytime I was thinking about omitting Darkstrider. Mostly because it would be easy free points and with all the suits Manta-striking the units he is supposed to support often are strongly decimated very fast.
But refused doing it because I thought it is a must-have for Breachers like the Devilfish.

This list has a lot of Command Points, but it's also 15 drops, which is more than average. The Seeker Missiles on the Devilfish were added as an afterthought by the way. Unless you're using Chapter Approved or ITC rules, that might be a deal-breaker. Here's a list with fewer drops, if you're worried about that:


Never had initiativ with 14 Drops either so I don´t bother with this.

Are the remaining 25 points (omitting Seeker Missiles) used wisely with two Recon Drones?
Ablative wounds for Ion Rifles and few additional shots.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#69 » Oct 16 2017 08:18

Shas'O Ora wrote:After my first game with the new rules I already thought that small infantry-teams have an advantage with the new moral-system, cause you are not losing soldiers because of this. Team extinguished through enemy fire or still fighting

Makes sense! If you have some ways to buff LD (like an Ethereal of Aun'va) larger squads become viable, but these are situational characters at best. If you like MSU Fire Warriors then stick with that!


Shas'O Ora wrote:Everytime I was thinking about omitting Darkstrider. Mostly because it would be easy free points and with all the suits Manta-striking the units he is supposed to support often are strongly decimated very fast.
But refused doing it because I thought it is a must-have for Breachers like the Devilfish.

I did an analysis of Darkstrider and other mechanized units here:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26659
If you have extra Breachers, try putting 2x6 in the Devilfish instead of 10+Darkstrider (unless you're hunting Terminators). Or, just put Gun Drones and a Fireblade in there instead!

Shas'O Ora wrote:Are the remaining 25 points (omitting Seeker Missiles) used wisely with two Recon Drones?
Ablative wounds for Ion Rifles and few additional shots.

Keep the Seeker Missiles on the Devilfish (with all of those Pathfinders you'll probably be going for a turn-one alpha strike, the Seekers will come in handy) and put two Shield Drones on the Stealthsuits! It'll make them extra durable and might possibly keep your squad (and, by extension, the homing beacon) alive for longer! Just a thought.

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