Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 226

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#37 » Oct 02 2017 03:33

Thanks, nice to know about this.
But for the CIBs I think I will go the expensive, lazy way and simply spend a lot of Money :D


No problem. I just like the fact that the moulds are we reshapeable. So if I need other weapons down the road I can make them by buying only greenstuff.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#38 » Oct 02 2017 06:16

Shas'O Ora wrote:
My mistake- the Stealthsuits cost 110 points because they have a Homing Beacon, forgot to write that in. The Stealthsuits use infiltrate, and deploy forward to drop their homing beacon and assist one of the Fusion Commanders. Also, feel free to increase the number of Pathfinders per team- that's a lot of Pathfinders, but it's also redundant. Personally, I keep Pathfinders and Fire Warriors at different squad sizes, to better reflect the fact that they have very different roles.

OK, you are right and I am persuaded. Efficiency should be the most important point and with the Homing Beacon the Stealth Team has a meaningful task.
So I stay with your first Suggestion + one Seeker Missiles for Devilfish and Fusion Blaster for Stealth Suit Sha´s Vre
(with my luck it is the one shot which decides about killing or not killing the target of the Commander)

The Stealthsuit team, with the 6" range on the Homing Beacon, sounds like it's pretty restricted, right? Actually, the squad can move and advance first, then drop the Beacon up to 2" away, then drop a Commander 6" past that. So, that's 16+D6" range that you can drop Commanders at. Not bad!

Shas'O Ora wrote:Are the Pathfinders ment to mark one unit 5 times to destroy it entirely or grant +1 BF through marking many enemy Units? I expect the first one makes more sense for Tau, right?

The beauty of it is, you can choose. Your first option is to fire the Markerlights in "pairs" (two per target) and hope to get one hit per target. If you get a double-miss on a target, fix the problem with the 5x Markerlight squad (while firing your Ion Rifles at a marked unit). Or, fire the 8x Markerlight squad at a target, hope to get 4-5 hits, and add the 5th hit with the Fireblade or 5x Markerlight squad as needed. Remember, it depends on the tactical situation- sometimes, targets will be so dangerous that they must die in a single round of shooting- in that case, try for 5 hits. Otherwise, spread out your hits, maximize your re-rolling ones, and knock out targets in order of priority. I guess it's more of a tactical judgement thing.

Shas'O Ora wrote:But for the CIBs I think I will go the expensive, lazy way and simply spend a lot of Money :D

That's the spirit!!

-

Anyway, here's the completed list then:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missile; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster, 1x Homing Beacon (121)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)

Total: 1750 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Supreme Command Detachment)

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#39 » Oct 03 2017 03:12

Cannot wait to fight with these guys :D
But first towards Kutami!

What kind of cadre or part of a cadre would you say this is?
I always like it to have some background.
My Suggestion is as follows:

Lostroninsoul´s army could be part of an Heavy Retribution Cadre
while mine would be part of a Retaliation Cadre.

I say 'part of' because it is hard to put an whole cadre in 1750 Points.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#40 » Oct 03 2017 06:03

Shas'O Ora wrote:Cannot wait to fight with these guys :D
But first towards Kutami!

What kind of cadre or part of a cadre would you say this is?
I always like it to have some background.
My Suggestion is as follows:

Lostroninsoul´s army could be part of an Heavy Retribution Cadre
while mine would be part of a Retaliation Cadre.

I say 'part of' because it is hard to put an whole cadre in 1750 Points.

That would be a good question for the lore guys- it's definitely not a full Cadre (you'd need six squads of Fire Warriors I think) but it comes pretty close to half a standard Hunter Cadre- given the large number of battlesuits it could be some kind of interdiction force.

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 226

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#41 » Oct 03 2017 11:29

There's another project for my plate, aka learn this 'cadre formation' stuff. :P I'm sculpting my list to be a full 2k list at the moment since I can't make it to the 1750 point event. I want to experiment with a 2 k list like this so I can test drive my units to:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [45 PL, 956pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [7 PL, 150pts]: Advanced targeting system, High-output burst cannon, Missile pod, Shield generator

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 323pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Cyclic ion blaster, Drone controller
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits(less all in by having 2 units and 13 points cheaper) [14 PL, 323pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Cyclic ion blaster, Drone controller
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team( flexible in number/unit count) [6 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Tactical Drones (hugs stormsurge)[2 PL, 40pts]: 4x MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones (hugs stormsurge)[2 PL, 40pts]: 4x MV7 Marker Drone

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [30 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Darkstrider(in fish) [3 PL, 45pts]

Ethereal(warlordtrait:inspiring leader, kroot support) [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

+ Troops +

Breacher Team(fish) [5 PL, 80pts]: 9x Fire Warrior, Fire Warrior Shas'ui

Kroot Carnivores (testing)[6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores (testing)[6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Kroot

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 137pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (T'au Empire) [22 PL, 491pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [22 PL, 491pts]: 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Cluster rocket system, 4x Destroyer missile, Drone controller, Pulse driver cannon, Shield generator, 2x Smart missile system

++ Total: [97 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


I like the idea of 8 marker drones near storm surge. It's 80 points but they essentially give stormsurge target lock, multitracker, buffs destroyer missles, and potentially +1ballistic. They can help screen against deep strike and don't mind being in the backfield. They can support other units outside of storm surge. Thry also carry 8 wounds that I would happy rather have shot at than my stormsurge. The ethereal is interesting because I want to see the effect of what maximum leadership (and infantry buffs) will do to a large kroot squad. I can puesdo mathhammer it but it's not the same as trying it on a real live opponent. If it's bad I'll switch things out

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#42 » Oct 03 2017 11:51

Lostroninsoul wrote:There's another project for my plate, aka learn this 'cadre formation' stuff :P

I think lots of it came from the old books, but when the new Codex comes there might be updated information there too.

Lostroninsoul wrote:I'm sculpting my list to be a full 2k list at the moment since I can't make it to the 1750 pointevent.

Will this be for a future 2000-point tournament, or just a regular gaming list? Just curious; of course, for either you'd want to bring your best. Honestly, I'd prefer to lose a game at a tournament than at Sunday night open tables :D

Lostroninsoul wrote:I want to experiment with a 2k list like this

Looks like a fun list. If you're investing in a Drone Controller for the Stormsurge (remember, the points are cheap but the opportunity cost is high) then I think you'll want to bring more Marker Drones and fewer Pathfinders. Also, I understand 20 Kroot, but... 40?? That's a lot of Kroot! When you expand your list, I'd consider also expanding the number of threats, not just the number of bubble-wrap units on the field. If we bring down the number of Kroot, we we can give the Pathfinders some Ion Rifles, increase the number of Marker Drones, and even add a group of Stealthsuits for extra mid-range disruption. This isn't my recommendation 100%, but it's what I've thought of for the time being.

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Ethereal (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 12x Kroot Carnivores (72)
Troops - 12x Kroot Carnivores (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missile; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (491)

Total: 1999 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment)

-

What do you think?

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#43 » Oct 04 2017 01:41

That would be a good question for the lore guys- it's definitely not a full Cadre (you'd need six squads of Fire Warriors I think) but it comes pretty close to half a standard Hunter Cadre- given the large number of battlesuits it could be some kind of interdiction force.


Are the lore guys the one in the library of the Water Caste Embassy?

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#44 » Oct 04 2017 01:46

Shas'O Ora wrote:
That would be a good question for the lore guys- it's definitely not a full Cadre (you'd need six squads of Fire Warriors I think) but it comes pretty close to half a standard Hunter Cadre- given the large number of battlesuits it could be some kind of interdiction force.


Are the lore guys the one in the library of the Water Caste Embassy?

The community here isn't really big enough to be seperated like that. Most user just read everything they find interesting. However if you have a specific fluff question, then yes the Water Caste Embassy would be the right place to open a new thread. ;)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#45 » Oct 04 2017 06:40

Panzer wrote:
Shas'O Ora wrote:
That would be a good question for the lore guys- it's definitely not a full Cadre (you'd need six squads of Fire Warriors I think) but it comes pretty close to half a standard Hunter Cadre- given the large number of battlesuits it could be some kind of interdiction force.


Are the lore guys the one in the library of the Water Caste Embassy?

The community here isn't really big enough to be seperated like that. Most user just read everything they find interesting. However if you have a specific fluff question, then yes the Water Caste Embassy would be the right place to open a new thread. ;)

Some people like myself (and probably Panzer) open every unread thread and skim through, answering whatever questions they can. However, some of the more lore-minded players probably don't read through the Cadre Building threads as much, so lore questions might get lost here. Ask a question in the Water Caste Embassy > Library or Fire Caste Academy > General Discussion for how Cadres work in the lore and how they could be represented on the tabletop!

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#46 » Oct 05 2017 02:07

Thank you both - have already been bussy in the library :)

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#47 » Oct 10 2017 12:37

Sharing experience after two blattles, once against Eldar/Dark Eldar, once against Space Marines
with following army:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missile; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster, 1x Homing Beacan (121)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)


Big parts of the army you suggested worked out preatty good.
Fusion-Commanders alone and in combination with the Stealth Suits did really a great job :D
and Pathfinders with markerlights were more than enough - as you said.

The reason for the defeat against the Eldar/Dark Eldar army was mainly because of tactical mistakes.
(wrong targets for the commanders and my first experience with 'Soulburst' :dead: )

But in both games I could not find the right task for my Coldstar.
Used him to Counter Jetbikes but alone he is too weak to annihilate a unit.
And in contrast to the overwhelming success of the Fusion-Commanders even Longstrike wasn´t really worth the Points.

What would be meaningful alternatives for the mentioned Units?

Thought about adding a third Fusion-Commander and a Quad-Plasma-Commander.
Fusion-Commander doing what Fusion-Commanders do,
and Quad-Plasma-Commander to back up the main gunline against heavy infantry like Terminators and to declare Kayun.

To avoid spamming Commanders I thought about a Ghostkeel as well.
(I know that Commanders always outperform the Ghostkeel)

What are your thoughts abot this?
Thanks for your time.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#48 » Oct 10 2017 03:45

Shas'O Ora wrote:Big parts of the army you suggested worked out preatty good.
Fusion-Commanders alone and in combination with the Stealth Suits did really a great job :D
and Pathfinders with markerlights were more than enough - as you said.

I'm glad things worked out! Was the Homing Beacon easy to use?

Shas'O Ora wrote:But in both games I could not find the right task for my Coldstar.
Used him to Counter Jetbikes but alone he is too weak to annihilate a unit.
And in contrast to the overwhelming success of the Fusion-Commanders even Longstrike wasn´t really worth the Points.

Coldstars are... funny. Personally, I don't recommend using them, but many players include them in their lists and I don't recommend not using them either. If that make sense. Anyway, Coldstars aren't meant for killing stuff, rather their functionality is all about tying up non-flying units (preventing them from shooting) and taking objectives (especially in Maelstrom). This is a really niche function. If you want an HQ unit that kills stuff, then the Coldstar isn't the right pick. Spending 150 points for an abstract objective-holder/skirmisher unit isn't an efficient use of points unless you're really aggressive with it.
Anyway, Longstrike is much more viable, but still niche. Use him to (a) finish off damaged tanks at any range, (b) deal great damage on low-T monsters and vehicles with SMS, (c) shoot flying units without any loss of accuracy, and (d) fire Seeker Missiles with near-perfect accuracy. Back him up with 1 Markerlight hit, and Longstrike can be relied on to deal the last few points of damage on targets that your Fusion Commanders weren't quite able to kill.

Shas'O Ora wrote:What would be meaningful alternatives for the mentioned Units?

If you want mid/long range fire support, try one of these tried-and-tested units:
- Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (Good)
- Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (Good)
- Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS (Decent)

If you want fast-moving skirmish units, try one of these:
- Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (Great)
- Vespid Stingwings (Good)
- Piranha w/ Burst Cannon (Decent)

If you want long-range, hard-hitting anti-vehicle support, try:
- Stormsurge (Good)
Seriously, long-range firepower is a very weak area in our Index. Unless you like Stormsurges or Longstrike/Hammerhead combo, don't bother with it.

Shas'O Ora wrote:Thought about adding a third Fusion-Commander and a Quad-Plasma-Commander.
Fusion-Commander doing what Fusion-Commanders do,
and Quad-Plasma-Commander to back up the main gunline against heavy infantry like Terminators and to declare Kauyon.

More Fusion Commanders is never a bad thing, however, do remember that it's possible to have too much anti-tank firepower. Also, about Plasma Rifle Commanders, here are some numbers:

4x PR vs TEQ (12"+) 4 shots > 3.33 hits > 2.22 wounds > 1.48 unsaved > 1.48 damage
4x PR vs TEQ (12") 8 shots > 6.67 hits > 4.44 wounds > 2.97 unsaved > 2.97 damage
4x CIB vs TEQ (18") 12 shots > 10 hits > 6.67 wounds > 2.22 unsaved > 2.22 damage
3x CIB + 1x ATS (18") 9 shots > 7.5 hits > 5 wounds > 2.5 unsaved > 2.5 damage
4x CIB (Overcharged) vs TEQ (18") 4D3 shots > 6.67 hits > 5.56 wounds > 1.89 unsaved > 3.58 damage
3x CIB + 1x ATS (Overcharged) vs TEQ (18") 3D3 shots > 5 hits > 4.17 wounds > 2.08 unsaved > 4.16 damage

As we can see, the Plasma Rifle in no case outperforms an overcharged CIB. The overcharged CIB has two drawbacks though- it can possibly damage the Commander, and it can 'whiff' by rolling a one for damage and requiring two hits to kill a Terminator. At any rate, given that the CIB has a variable firing profile allowing it to be better against different targets, I'd always take a CIB over a Plasma Rifle. Plus, you don't need to get in within 12", which keeps the Commander safe!

Shas'O Ora wrote:To avoid spamming Commanders I thought about a Ghostkeel as well.
(I know that Commanders always outperform the Ghostkeel)

The Fusion Ghostkeel is of course hopelessly outperformed by the Fusion Commander, but the CIR Ghostkeel does offer a number of unique benefits- the CIR has a longer range than the CIB, the extra range synergizes well with the Ghostkeel's stealth, and the Ghostkeel's high wound count means that the CIR overheating isn't much of a problem. In a powergaming list I wouldn't recommend the CIR Ghostkeel, but I think it is a unique, viable, and durable midrange option.

Anyway, enough information! Let's dump the Coldstar and Longstrike and see how it'd look:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missike; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)

Total: 1750 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

What do you think?

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#49 » Oct 10 2017 06:40

I'm glad things worked out! Was the Homing Beacon easy to use?


Homing Beacon was easy to use. I was lucky, that it was an urban map, so the Stealth Suits were able to Infiltrate into cover. This way they took a lot of bullets but survived the first turn.
But with the enemy now knowing what they are able to bring with them, I am not sure if they will survive the first turn next time.

If you want mid/long range fire support, try one of these tried-and-tested units:
- Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (Good)
- Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (Good)
- Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS (Decent)


I will replace the Coldstar with the Missile-Commander.
I really want to use the (now) Enforcer-Suit and I already own it in contrast to the Ghostkeel.
But I am sure the Ghostkeel will get his chance sooner or later :)

More Fusion Commanders is never a bad thing, however, do remember that it's possible to have too much anti-tank firepower. Also, about Plasma Rifle Commanders, here are some numbers:


I knew that Plasma has a hard stand this times.
Besides the Eldar/Dark Eldar-player most of my enemies will be Space Marines, Thousand Sons and Grey Knights so there will be enough targets for anti-tank ;)

Because I am still fascinated by the performance of my two Fusion-Commanders from last battle I will add a third one instead of Longstrike. In the Moment I simply can not imagine how there can be too much of them <3<3<3 :P
so reality hast to proof this first.

So my list, following your pattern is as follows:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealth Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller, 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)

Against Imperial Guard and Tyranid armies I will use the Ghostkeel with your suggested list

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missike; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#50 » Oct 10 2017 06:50

Shas'O Ora wrote:Because I am still fascinated by the performance of my two Fusion-Commanders from last battle I will add a third one instead of Longstrike. In the Moment I simply can not imagine how there can be too much of them <3<3<3 :P
so reality hast to proof this first.

So you're okay with Commander spam? If you enjoy playing it, that's the most important fun! (And, of course, if you enjoy playing it and it's really competitive, even better!) :biggrin:

Shas'O Ora wrote:So my list, following your pattern is as follows:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Shield Drone (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealth Suits w/ 1x Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller, 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinder w/ 6x Marker, 3x Ion Rifle (84)

Against Imperial Guard and Tyranid armies I will use the Ghostkeel with your suggested list

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missike; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)

I'm not sure about your local meta, but personally I'm not a fan of list-tailoring. I mean, if you know your fighting Guard and you design a list to counter them, couldn't they just design a list that counters Tau guard-counter? It's an infinite loop of tailoring. Of course if your local meta is cool with it that's okay though!

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 226

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#51 » Oct 10 2017 10:56

Arka0415 wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:I'm sculpting my list to be a full 2k list at the moment since I can't make it to the 1750 pointevent.

Will this be for a future 2000-point tournament, or just a regular gaming list? Just curious; of course, for either you'd want to bring your best. Honestly, I'd prefer to lose a game at a tournament than at Sunday night open tables :D

This list is temporary test list as I continue to explore what I like and don't like about the units I have at my disposal. For now, it will be for casual gaming atm. If I get more into the hobby, I may get more competitive to hunt for large tournaments. My metas will be 3-4 LGS ( 60-90 minutes away) up to once a week, and my buddies' house about once a month or so. My buddies play chaos khourne and orks. Those games with friends are typically until someone is tabled. I intend to play Warhammer way more casually than my MTG career. Tournaments bring the worst out of people and are a less fun environment to play in. I'm not saying that they are not fun. On the contrary, tournaments can be very fun. Especially because they bring out more challenging and opponents. But it does require a lot of preparation. Competitive tournament play requires optimized lists to be scrutinized because the cost/reward of winning versus losing is higher. They also make it more fair to employ brutal strategies.
For now, I'm content with occasional casual games in between army building.That's less pressure to rush painting models and obtaining the 'best" models.

Arka0415 wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:I want to experiment with a 2k list like this

Looks like a fun list. If you're investing in a Drone Controller for the Stormsurge (remember, the points are cheap but the opportunity cost is high) then I think you'll want to bring more Marker Drones and fewer Pathfinders. Also, I understand 20 Kroot, but... 40?? That's a lot of Kroot! When you expand your list, I'd consider also expanding the number of threats, not just the number of bubble-wrap units on the field. If we bring down the number of Kroot, we we can give the Pathfinders some Ion Rifles, increase the number of Marker Drones, and even add a group of Stealthsuits for extra mid-range disruption. This isn't my recommendation 100%, but it's what I've thought of for the time being.

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Ethereal (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 12x Kroot Carnivores (72)
Troops - 12x Kroot Carnivores (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missile; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Fast Attack - 5x Marker Drones (50)
Lord of War - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, 2x SMS, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker (491)

Total: 1999 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment)

-

What do you think?



Ion cannon: I like the ion cannons on the path finders but I have to figure out how I will do it. I like to have my army WYSIWYG. I have 3 ion cannon bits. I was thinking of filing off the arms and magnetising the ion cannons to the1. back ,2. Onto the pulse carbines, 3. buying an unassembled pathfinder group to magentise, or 4. to cut off the arm bits and attempt to magnetise the joints of three regular pathfinders. My current models have 10 regular and 2 rail rifles. I haven't figured out what will work best because I'm still working on the stormsurge.

Marker drones:I think 8-12 marker drones are good enough for the storm surge. 10 is right in the middle. It's good with a model carrying a dc controller.

Yes, that's a lot of Kroot. I figure they will be good at objectives, screening, or ambushing targets. I want to see how effective ethereal is at reducing battleshock, how much of a distraction target the kroot become in the larger numbers, and what type of damage kroot can do in such large squads. Running 20 kroot with up to 40 shots (rapid fire)and can charge into battle seems like a neat uncommon thing for a tau player to do. Overwatch potential seems interesting. They have decent movement and the pregame movement ability seems neat. For the points, it's close to having firewalkers getting a Cadre buff in rapid fire rang. At 120 points the firewalkers only get an additional five shots (at 1 more strength) in rapid fire range but at ranges 15"-24" kroot shoot more. Due to the lack of AP, I'm not banking on major damage from either. If this experiment with a ethereal is successful I may look into trying Aun'va out for the double buff. If it doesn't pan out, I will hold off on acquiring the model. Depending if I like them I can always adjust their unit sizes. But lately I shrunk their number tbh.

Stealthsuits: I have the stealthsuits but I'm not crazy for the 12 shots at 4 bs for 90 points. 4 shots from kroot at the same points with more range and rapid fire potential. The 6 wounds is OK and -1 to hit is fantastic.The -1 to hit is cool. I would be tempted to take shield generators to max out on obnoxiousness. They would be a better DC carrier if I ran them and had marker drones. This would allow the stormsurge a better support system.t his would increase the costs by about 16 points for the shield generator 5 for the dc, and 5 points to upgrade the stormsurge to velocity tracker from DC. But the suits point costs starts at 90 and pour more points into them isn't something I want to do at the moment because I want to see test kroot handle. I just don't like our tau weapons that lack ap or don't have huge volumes of fire.

Overall:this was a saved draft from Oct 4th. I'm still tinkering with my list, so I have done some changes. I haven't had a a game in over a month since I been building and painting my army. I now have a regular Commander primed on sprue (trying different painting techniques). So that new toy has yet to be integrated into the list. Told you I would get one. I'm considering clipping my coldstar and magnetising it during the winter so it can convert between coldstar and reg commander so it's adaptable when new codex is released.


Shas'O Ora wrote:Sharing experience after two blattles, once against Eldar/Dark Eldar, once against Space Marines
with following army:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yeild Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 1x Seeker Missile; 2x Gun Drones (132)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIB, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster, 1x Homing Beacan (121)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)


Big parts of the army you suggested worked out preatty good.
Fusion-Commanders alone and in combination with the Stealth Suits did really a great job :D
and Pathfinders with markerlights were more than enough - as you said.

Please tell me more about the stealth suits. I only primed mine and haven't used them yet. What is so great about them? I wrote them off, and want to know how they helped you so much so I can reconsider them if they actually are very good in general.

Shas'O Ora wrote:But in both games I could not find the right task for my Coldstar.
Used him to Counter Jetbikes but alone he is too weak to annihilate a unit.
And in contrast to the overwhelming success of the Fusion-Commanders even Longstrike wasn´t really worth the Points.

Coldstars are... funny. Personally, I don't recommend using them, but many players include them in their lists and I don't recommend not using them either. If that make sense. Anyway, Coldstars aren't meant for killing stuff, rather their functionality is all about tying up non-flying units (preventing them from shooting) and taking objectives (especially in Maelstrom). This is a really niche function. If you want an HQ unit that kills stuff, then the Coldstar isn't the right pick. Spending 150 points for an abstract objective-holder/skirmisher unit isn't an efficient use of points unless you're really aggressive with it.
Anyway, Longstrike is much more viable, but still niche. Use him to (a) finish off damaged tanks at any range, (b) deal great damage on low-T monsters and vehicles with SMS, (c) shoot flying units without any loss of accuracy, and (d) fire Seeker Missiles with near-perfect accuracy. Back him up with 1 Markerlight hit, and Longstrike can be relied on to deal the last few points of damage on targets that your Fusion Commanders weren't quite able to kill.

I am curious to try out the coldstar with a multitracker +ats for 144 points. The cold star would be easier to shoot down but I'm intending to give my opponent bigger problems to focus their bigger guns on. I am not relying on it surviving so I'm not expecting it to live if it goes behind enemy lines. If it hides behind other units then the shield is useless any way. I think the 10 shots with auto-reroll 1's ,BS +2, 20 movement , -1 ap, and has the ability to charge the remaining survivors if it didn't 20" advance could be good. The battlefield role it would serve is character hunter (fly+movement), anti-infantry, and supporting firepower to finish off wounded units. I feel it would be comparable damage output to CiB commander without the overcharge mode for that battlefield role. CiB Comander (reg)has 12 shots versus coldstar's 10. Cold star would rarely miss any of its hit rolls and spikes it's damage on the MP. A benefit of the multitracker is if the coldstar jumps a hoard of dudes to get the character in range, it would probably be hard to get markerlights on the character so the multitracker would have definite advantages in this type of scenerio. CiB commanders advantage would be the overcharge mode perks of course. I think the a coldstar has this character hunting perk down the best while not being completely useless either. Do you think multitracker-ats is viable based on your coldstar experience?

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 226

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#52 » Oct 10 2017 11:29

Current list idea


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [61 PL, 1142pts] ++

+ HQ +

Darkstrider [3 PL, 45pts]

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [5 PL, 80pts]: 9x Fire Warrior, Fire Warrior Shas'ui

+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [6 PL, 134pts]
. 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Shield generator: 2x Burst cannon, 2x Shield generator
. Stealth Shas'vre: Fusion blaster, Shield generator
. . Markerlight + Target Lock: Markerlight, Target lock

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 325pts]: 5x MV1 Gun Drone, MV7 Marker Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Cyclic ion blaster, Drone controller
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 325pts]: 5x MV1 Gun Drone, MV7 Marker Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Cyclic ion blaster, Drone controller
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 48pts]
. 5x Pathfinder: 5x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 48pts]
. 5x Pathfinder: 5x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 137pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [38 PL, 858pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [7 PL, 144pts]: Advanced targeting system, High-output burst cannon, Missile pod, Multi-tracker

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [22 PL, 496pts]: 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Cluster rocket system, 4x Destroyer missile, Pulse driver cannon, Shield generator, 2x Smart missile system, Velocity tracker

++ Total: [99 PL, 2000pts] ++



Not a be all, end all list. Just a flavor of the week. 15 markerlights. It still deploys quick . It's subject to tweaking still.

User avatar
Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#53 » Oct 11 2017 08:52

So you're okay with Commander spam? If you enjoy playing it, that's the most important fun! (And, of course, if you enjoy playing it and it's really competitive, even better!) :biggrin:


You are right! Saying the one thing doing the other - not very consistent. :D
I would like to have a list without commander-spam to avoid complainings right at the beginning.
I would like to have elite-troops which are able of doing the job as good as the Commanders but with replacing one Fusion-Commander with a Ghostkeel I feel like losing some percentages of effectivity.

To explain Commander-spam I would say that experienced specialists acting as lone wolves to strike at the most important enemy Targets - that´s what the rank of Shas'el was made for.
So I am okay with it but it is good to already have an alternative with the Ghostkeel ;)

I'm not sure about your local meta, but personally I'm not a fan of list-tailoring. I mean, if you know your fighting Guard and you design a list to counter them, couldn't they just design a list that counters Tau guard-counter? It's an infinite loop of tailoring. Of course if your local meta is cool with it that's okay though!


Haven´t thought about this so far. You´re right, again. I also prefer having one cadre which can deal with everything.
Only big change would be exchanging one Fusion-Commander with the Ghostkeel.
Is this already tailoring?

Do you think Games Workshop will take actions to avoid Commander-Spam with release of the Codex?

Please tell me more about the stealth suits. I only primed mine and haven't used them yet. What is so great about them? I wrote them off, and want to know how they helped you so much so I can reconsider them if they actually are very good in general.


Their main task is the Homing Beacon, so one Fusion-Commander is able to manta-strike in half weapon reach and so can use two D6 for damage throws.
My Shas'vre has got a Fusion Blaster too, so he can finish off what´s left by the Commander.
In addition, when they can do all this in cover, they are really resilient, even without Shieldgenerator.
Did not have Initative and they took nearly all shots from eldar light and medium weapons which otherwise could have decimated the Firewarriors in my Gunline. Stealthsuits only lost one suit.

In the game against Space Marines only the Shas'vre with the Fusion Blaster survived.
But after this nobody shot at him anymore - enemy had more valuable Targets - even though (with markerlight Support) he was useful with his Fusion Blaster against something like a Space Marine Champion which dropped in my flank where a complete Fusion-Commander was not available at this Moment.

They simply are annoying for your enemy. :P

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 226

Re: Green player building a list for 1750 pt event

Post#54 » Oct 11 2017 11:56

Thank you for the stealth suit brief. Maybe I should take them just as a distractionary target. Drop them in from of the enemy and save a turn of firing. Or at least find a more tactically elegant way of doing this effect

Return to “Cadre Building”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests