1500pts vs Ultramarines

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Ghostly Daemon
Shas'Saal
Posts: 50
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1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#1 » Sep 26 2017 07:30

So tomorrow night I'm going to be facing Ultramarines.. Last time we played, we lost but purely through the opponents lucky objective drawing. He used various Devastators, regular and Primaris Marines, 2 flyers (Storm Ravens I believe, with Lascannons), Girlyman himself, a Knight and a Librarian.

I teamed up with Chaos forces to fight him off and it was a narrow defeat. Tomorrow is the revenge. 1500 points for me, 1500 points for Chaos against 3000 points of Ultramarines.

We'll likely be playing objectives again and there was plenty of cover on the table. This is the list I have come up with so far, but I feel like it's missing something I can't quite place my finger on.

Spoiler!
Battalion Detachment, +3CP

HQ

Cadre Fireblade, 42pts
Coldstar Commander (ATS, Target Lock), 148pts

Troops

Breacher Team (9 x Fire Warriors, 1 x Shas'ui), 80pts
Strike Team (9 x Fire Warriors, 1 x Shas'ui), 80pts
Strike Team (9 x Fire Warriors, 1 x Shas'ui), 80pts

Elites

XV104 Riptide (ATS, Target Lock), 324pts
XV8 Crisis (2 x CIB + ATS, 2 x CIB + ATS, 2 x Fusion + Shield Gen, 4 x Gun Drone, 2 x Shield Drone), 312pts

Fast Attack

Pathfinders (7 x Pathfinder, 1 x Shas'ui, 1 x Recon Drone, 1 x Grav Inhib, 1 x Pulse Acc), 92pts

Heavy Support

Hammerhead (Railgun), 171pts

Flyer

AX39 Sun Shark, 167pts

Total: 1496pts


Last time I used a Droneport to great effectiveness, it kept my Strike team alive for long enough to do some serious damage, along with providing BS2+ Marker support from the detatched drones (thanks to the Fireblade). The bomber always seems to do really well against infantry and as anti-elite or anti-flyer. The opponent is likely to field a Knight and so is my Chaos friend, so hopefully they'll be able to deal with each other in that regard.

Am I missing something? Can you see any issues with this list?
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1928

Re: 1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#2 » Sep 26 2017 08:44

Sounds like a fun chance to get revenge!

Ghostly Daemon wrote:We'll likely be playing objectives again and there was plenty of cover on the table. This is the list I have come up with so far, but I feel like it's missing something I can't quite place my finger on.

I don't know about your local meta, but this list doesn't really match up with what the community generally considers "competitive." Of course, you don't need to do that though! Anyway, here's what we generally do for competetive lists: Breachers should always be used with a Devilfish, Riptides are generally left our, XV8s should have uniform upgrades, the list should include at least one or more Commanders, the Hammerhead should be Longstrike and should take Seeker Missiles; finally (this is more personal preference) but I'd grab the second Missile Pod on that Sun Shark too.

Anyway, with these changes in mind we'd end up with this list:

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters, 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1501 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Patrol Detachment)

-

Note that the Breachers are split up so we can make a Patrol Detachment too- this gives us no extra Command Points but allows us to fit in a 4th HQ choice without taking a Auxiliary Detachment. Of course, if you'd like you can split the Fire Warriors into 4x5, giving you 6 Troops and the ability to take two Battalion Detachments. You'd be adding more drops though, for what it's worth. Anyway, what do you think?

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Ghostly Daemon
Shas'Saal
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Re: 1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#3 » Sep 26 2017 09:15

Arka0415 wrote:Sounds like a fun chance to get revenge!

I don't know about your local meta, but this list doesn't really match up with what the community generally considers "competitive." Of course, you don't need to do that though! Anyway, here's what we generally do for competetive lists: Breachers should always be used with a Devilfish, Riptides are generally left our, XV8s should have uniform upgrades, the list should include at least one or more Commanders, the Hammerhead should be Longstrike and should take Seeker Missiles; finally (this is more personal preference) but I'd grab the second Missile Pod on that Sun Shark too.


Well in general our meta is much more casual, but this particular opponent is extremely power-gamey and likes to get his block of cheddar out at any chance!

I think your list is great, the only problem is I don't have a second commander to field as a Fusion Blaster Commander :-(
I have some new models in the post (one of which is a Commander) and they will hopefully turn up tonight; if so I'll be able to field your list!

Based on the idea that he won't turn up however, what would you recommend?

(Also I generally have found Riptides to be pretty good, they've done great every game I've used them but I understand it's a matter of opinion too :D )
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1928

Re: 1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#4 » Sep 26 2017 07:07

Ghostly Daemon wrote:Well in general our meta is much more casual, but this particular opponent is extremely power-gamey and likes to get his block of cheddar out at any chance!

In my experience, a local meta with just one powergamer makes the local meta a powergame one. Nobody wants to bring their Kroot theme list when one of the usuals is rocking an Imperial Knight list, right? :D

Ghostly Daemon wrote:I think your list is great, the only problem is I don't have a second commander to field as a Fusion Blaster Commander :-(
I have some new models in the post (one of which is a Commander) and they will hopefully turn up tonight; if so I'll be able to field your list!

That's okay! It means that we'll need an alternative source of anti-tank though. We can use Stormsurges, Commanders, Hammerheads, more Commanders, Ghostkeels, and more Commanders for anti-tank. Do you have any of those to use?

If we drop the Commander, one thing we can do is switch the XV8s to a Fusion Blaster build, and bring the Riptide back to fill the anti-elite role the XV8s filled with their CIBs. However, that would bring the list to about 1650 points- something needs to go. We can't drop the Breachers, Coldstar, Sunshark, or XV8s, so I think the Fire Warrior gunline needs to be pared down. Here's how the list would look:

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (201)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 2x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - Riptide w/ Heavy Burst Cannon, 2x SMS, Target Lock, ATS (324)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1500 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

However, if you'd like to keep the gunline, you could also use this kind of list:

-

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 2x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - Riptide w/ Heavy Burst Cannon, 2x SMS, Target Lock, ATS (324)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1500 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

Either of those look interesting?

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Ghostly Daemon
Shas'Saal
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Re: 1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#5 » Sep 27 2017 05:23

Arka0415 wrote:In my experience, a local meta with just one powergamer makes the local meta a powergame one. Nobody wants to bring their Kroot theme list when one of the usuals is rocking an Imperial Knight list, right? :D


You're absolutely right, it's a shame because the rest of us enjoy our fluff and just casual games really! I don't plan on taking the Knight on unless it kills my Chaos friend's one, so I'm hoping to completely avoid it really!

Arka0415 wrote:That's okay! It means that we'll need an alternative source of anti-tank though. We can use Stormsurges, Commanders, Hammerheads, more Commanders, Ghostkeels, and more Commanders for anti-tank. Do you have any of those to use?


I do have a Hammerhead which I can use as Longstrike! I have a Surge, Ghostkeel and a bunch of other stuff just turned up this morning, but work will prevent me from building anything before the game unfortunately, so just the Hammerhead it is!

Arka0415 wrote:If we drop the Commander, one thing we can do is switch the XV8s to a Fusion Blaster build, and bring the Riptide back to fill the anti-elite role the XV8s filled with their CIBs. However, that would bring the list to about 1650 points- something needs to go. We can't drop the Breachers, Coldstar, Sunshark, or XV8s, so I think the Fire Warrior gunline needs to be pared down. Here's how the list would look:

-

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (201)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 2x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - Riptide w/ Heavy Burst Cannon, 2x SMS, Target Lock, ATS (324)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1500 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

However, if you'd like to keep the gunline, you could also use this kind of list:

-

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 2x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - Riptide w/ Heavy Burst Cannon, 2x SMS, Target Lock, ATS (324)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1500 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

Either of those look interesting?


I think I'll need to stick with the gunline option, as we won't have a massive amount of troops on the field, so that second list looks absolutely fantastic! That's probably what I will use tonight, so prepare to see a battle report later or tomorrow! Thanks for your help! :biggrin:
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1928

Re: 1500pts vs Ultramarines

Post#6 » Sep 27 2017 09:23

Ghostly Daemon wrote:I don't plan on taking the Knight on unless it kills my Chaos friend's one, so I'm hoping to completely avoid it really!

If you can use your shooting to finish the Imperial Knight off though, do so- that's one abilty the Chaos player might not have, long(er) range firepower.

Ghostly Daemon wrote:I think I'll need to stick with the gunline option, as we won't have a massive amount of troops on the field, so that second list looks absolutely fantastic! That's probably what I will use tonight, so prepare to see a battle report later or tomorrow! Thanks for your help! :biggrin:

Enjoy the battle, and let us know how it goes! Tau'va!

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