new army (re-arming) list

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zawyvern
Shas
Posts: 23

new army (re-arming) list

Post#1 » Oct 03 2017 01:23

So, after biting the bullet I've decided my old Tau force of firewarriors, vehicles and a couple of crisis suits isn't going to cut it.
I want to run it by you guys before pulling the trigger on buying new models though. I'm also betting that suits will get better when the codex drops. So tell me what you think. Also not looking to do a fusion blaster commander bomb. 1 is enough for me.

Brigade Formation: 6 command points

HQ - Commander: 138 pts
1x crisis commander; 3 fusion blasters, drone contoller

HQ - Ethereal: 50 pts
1x ethereal; hover drone

Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel: 169 pts
1x ghostkeel; Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 burst cannons, 2 shield drones, Advanced Targeting System

Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel: 169 pts
1x ghostkeel; Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 burst cannons, 2 shield drones, Advanced Targeting System

Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel: 169 pts
1x ghostkeel; Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 burst cannons, 2 shield drones, Advanced Targeting System

Elite - XV25 Stealth suits: 160 pts
5x suits: burst cannons, multitracker

Elite - Firesight Marksmen: 24 pts
markerlight, pulse pistol

Troops - Breacher team: 40 pts
5x firewarriors; pulse blaster, photon grendes

Troops - Breacher team: 48 pts
5x firewarriors; pulse blaster, photon grendes, guardian drone

Troops - Breacher team: 40 pts
5x firewarriors; pulse blaster, photon grendes

Fast Attack - Tactical Drones: 60 pts
6x marker drones

Fast Attack - Tactical Drones: 64 pts
8x gun drones

Heavy Support - XV88 Broadside suit: 178 pts
1x broadside; heavy rail rifle, 2 plasma rifles, target lock, seeker missile

Heavy Support - XV88 Broadside suit: 167 pts
1x broadside; heavy rail rifle, 2 plasma rifles, target lock, seeker missile

Heavy Support - XV88 Broadside suit: 167 pts
1x broadside; heavy rail rifle, 2 plasma rifles, target lock, seeker missile

Flyer- AX39 Sunshark bomber: 167 pts
1x sunshark; markerlight, missilepod, 2 seeker missiles, 2 interceptor drones, pulse bomb

Flyer- AX39 Sunshark bomber: 167 pts
1x sunshark; markerlight, missilepod, 2 seeker missiles, 2 interceptor drones, pulse bomb

I went for a semi mobile force. Not much deep strike. I put them in a brigade but I could lose the breacher teams and go for a spearhead and vanguard force instead. Free up some points and maybe upgrade the stealth team to have fusion blasters and add another unit of drones. During deployment try to stick to cover with cheap units to the outside to screen/bubblewrap

The commander can sit in reserve to manta strike if necessary, but more for counter attack into aggresive transport bound units (like Khorne beserkers) with drones in support. The sunshark bombers would either support him or go after heavy infantry with their pulse bombs.

The stealth suits and ghostkeels would be the main front line trying to keep just out of charge range.(ha! :roll: ) The commander and drones would be behind them to plug holes. Same with the breachers, they will move in support of the stealth suits. I expect them to die but if they can get a good round of shooting in before, then great. There's no objective secured in the army yet, so any unit will do for objective grabbing.

The ethereal and broadsides will sit back and target armor. The ethereal will give sense of stone if the broadsides are under heavy fire or have to move out of charge range. The broadsides have target lock to keep mobile. If they are left alone, the etheral will give storm of fire. The ethereal can support the stealth suits and ghostkeels also if the broadsides go down.

The marksmen is there just to provide that first markerlight to make it easier for the other markerlight carrying units. If there's anything big like a knight, it will get lit up first and will launch all seeker missiles. Other than that targets of opportunity.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#2 » Oct 03 2017 06:23

zawyvern wrote:So, after biting the bullet I've decided my old Tau force of firewarriors, vehicles and a couple of crisis suits isn't going to cut it.
I want to run it by you guys before pulling the trigger on buying new models though. I'm also betting that suits will get better when the codex drops. So tell me what you think. Also not looking to do a fusion blaster commander bomb. 1 is enough for me.

If you're trying to improve your list, you have two options- either build an army that is competetive in the current index, or wait until the Codex comes out. I agree with you that things like Broadsides will probably improve in the Codex, but for now they're not very strong. Anyway, if you want to run a list that uses 3x Ghostkeel and 3x Broadside, you're going to need different kinds of anti-infantry support- the best option I see is SMS on the Broadsides. Switch the Broadsides to SMS, drop the Marker Drones, trade Breachers for Fire Warriors, add a Fireblade, give every Ghostkeel a Target Lock, add extra Missile Pods to the Sun Sharks. Of course, make sure your Commander is armed with 4 weapons to make use of his BS2+ and give him a pair of Shield Drones if you plan to use Manta Strike. Also, I don't think this list really needs Stealthsuits- dropping them allows for more HQs, Command Points, and a few more Fire Warriors too. Here's the list with those changes made:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Ethereal on Hover Drone (50)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Heavy Support - 3x Broadside w/ 3x Heavy Rail Rifle, 6x SMS, 3x Velocity Tracker (555)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1999 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

It's different, but what do you think? We could also reject Fire Warriors entirely for mobile Drone units, or Stealthsuits-as-infantry for a low-model-count force.

zawyvern
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#3 » Oct 03 2017 10:00

It's different, but what do you think? We could also reject Fire Warriors entirely for mobile Drone units, or Stealthsuits-as-infantry for a low-model-count force.


Seems pretty managable. More familiar with the fireblade and firewarriors. I already have the stealth suits that's why I wanted to use them. But I have the firewarriors too, so same difference.
I like using gun drones because people tend to over estimate or under estimate them. But I'm not commited to them. Really they're just faster at getting to objectives than firewarriors.
I was having trouble with reaching objectives with the static army I have now. Which was why I was trying to keep mobile.
But yeah good list. Thanks.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#4 » Oct 03 2017 07:22

zawyvern wrote:
It's different, but what do you think? We could also reject Fire Warriors entirely for mobile Drone units, or Stealthsuits-as-infantry for a low-model-count force.


Seems pretty managable. More familiar with the fireblade and firewarriors. I already have the stealth suits that's why I wanted to use them. But I have the firewarriors too, so same difference.
I like using gun drones because people tend to over estimate or under estimate them. But I'm not commited to them. Really they're just faster at getting to objectives than firewarriors.
I was having trouble with reaching objectives with the static army I have now. Which was why I was trying to keep mobile.
But yeah good list. Thanks.

About mobility- it might be tough to put together a mobile list that also has 3 Ghostkeels, 3 Broadsides, and some kind of Fireblade/Infantry synergy. We could do it with a non-mechanized battlesuit list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Ethereal on Hover Drone (50)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 2x Drone Controller (100)
Fast Attack - 6x Marker Drones (60)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Heavy Support - 3x Broadside w/ 3x Heavy Rail Rifle, 6x SMS, 3x Target Lock (564)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 2003 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Something like that?

zawyvern
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#5 » Oct 03 2017 10:06

Arka0415 wrote:
zawyvern wrote:
It's different, but what do you think? We could also reject Fire Warriors entirely for mobile Drone units, or Stealthsuits-as-infantry for a low-model-count force.


Seems pretty managable. More familiar with the fireblade and firewarriors. I already have the stealth suits that's why I wanted to use them. But I have the firewarriors too, so same difference.
I like using gun drones because people tend to over estimate or under estimate them. But I'm not commited to them. Really they're just faster at getting to objectives than firewarriors.
I was having trouble with reaching objectives with the static army I have now. Which was why I was trying to keep mobile.
But yeah good list. Thanks.

About mobility- it might be tough to put together a mobile list that also has 3 Ghostkeels, 3 Broadsides, and some kind of Fireblade/Infantry synergy. We could do it with a non-mechanized battlesuit list:


Good stuff. I struggled with the stealth suits. Added a fusion blaster, played with the points. Figured it was better just to get another commander and some drones. If stealthsuits could all take a fusion blaster it might be worth it for the extra wounds. Also took shield drones for extra durability. As it is I'll probably go with this:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters; Drone controller(138)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters; Drone controller(138)
HQ - Ethereal on Hover Drone (50)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 5x Shield Drones (50)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 5x Shield Drones (50)
Heavy Support - 3x Broadside w/ 3x Heavy Rail Rifle, 6x plasma rifle, 3x Target Lock (519)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1998 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

I think this a solid list. Having the extra commander reduces a weak point of the list. I wish they still allowed the extra master of war though, but not much to be done about it. I moved the shield drones into units to make it harder to give up first blood. And took some more.
Overall… somewhat durable, decent firepower, decent model count, average amount of drops. I could merge the shield drones together for 1 less drop. But I want to be able to split them to follow commanders if they split up. I may split the broadsides if I'm worried about overkill.
Also added up the power points and comes in at a respectable 109. Can upgrade the broadsides and add some shield drones then too.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#6 » Oct 03 2017 10:29

zawyvern wrote:I think this a solid list. Having the extra commander reduces a weak point of the list. I wish they still allowed the extra master of war though, but not much to be done about it. I moved the shield drones into units to make it harder to give up first blood. And took some more.
Overall… somewhat durable, decent firepower, decent model count, average amount of drops. I could merge the shield drones together for 1 less drop. But I want to be able to split them to follow commanders if they split up. I may split the broadsides if I'm worried about overkill.

A few decisions here that I'm not quite sure are good ideas. First, and most importantly, the function of the Commanders is to drop down in places where enemy vehicles and monsters are vulnerable- by definition, this means places where your army isn't going to be heavily deployed, let alone present at all. This is why Manta Strike-deployment Commanders need to bring their own Shield Drones for protection. Second, Commanders are your best units- make sure they maximize their alpha-strike firepower and maximize the utility of their BS2+. Third, this army has no anti-infantry. The Ghostkeels are anti-tank/anti-elite, the Broadsides are anti-tank/anti-elite, the Sun Sharks are anti-elite, the Commanders are anti-tank/anti-monster. The Broadsides actually need those SMS, because you need anti-infantry and anti-horde firepower wherever you can get it. In addition, the long range of SMS means that the Broadsides' secondary weapon systems stay relevant at range, the Target Lock's effect is doubled, and SMS deals more damage against all targets compared to a Plasma Rifle, given the Plasma Rifle's short effective range.

Anyway, with these changes in mind, your list needs to take on 100+ more points in order to fix these problems. We can drop one of the Shield Drone units, and reduce size of the Gun Drone units (but still keep the Outrider detachment) to save points. We'll also need to get the Ethereal off his Hover Drone, but that's one thing you don't need as he can easily walk alongside the Broadsides. Here's how it'd look:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Ethereal (45)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, ATS, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Shield Drones (32)
Heavy Support - 3x Broadside w/ 3x Heavy Rail Rifle, 6x SMS, 3x Target Lock (567)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 2001 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

zawyvern
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#7 » Oct 04 2017 12:14

Arka0415 wrote:A few decisions here that I'm not quite sure are good ideas. First, and most importantly, the function of the Commanders is to drop down in places where enemy vehicles and monsters are vulnerable- by definition, this means places where your army isn't going to be heavily deployed, let alone present at all.


Ah, I see. Deep strike was always a last go to measure in my mind. Not the main build. I like to have it as a threat during deployment, but really don't want to center around it. The other players generally have lists that guard against deep strike as well.
Where I'm at I play against mostly space marines (of various flavors), chaos, necrons, and another tau. Also talk of someone starting a IG tank list. Of course I'd like to have an all comers list, but I think it is good enough as is... for now.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: new army (re-arming) list

Post#8 » Oct 04 2017 02:25

zawyvern wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:A few decisions here that I'm not quite sure are good ideas. First, and most importantly, the function of the Commanders is to drop down in places where enemy vehicles and monsters are vulnerable- by definition, this means places where your army isn't going to be heavily deployed, let alone present at all.


Ah, I see. Deep strike was always a last go to measure in my mind. Not the main build. I like to have it as a threat during deployment, but really don't want to center around it. The other players generally have lists that guard against deep strike as well.
Where I'm at I play against mostly space marines (of various flavors), chaos, necrons, and another tau. Also talk of someone starting a IG tank list. Of course I'd like to have an all comers list, but I think it is good enough as is... for now.

It seems to me (and lots of the people who've done the real math, like over on 3++) that deep strike is built in rather expensively to the points costs of XV8s and Commanders. With the Fusion Blaster build, it really hinges on alpha strike- getting in to vulnerable positions and optimally using that 18" range. Of course feel free to play the way you think works best and that suits your local meta, but thinking about deep strike as the optimal and normal deployment method in 8th Edition is the direction we should be moving in, I think.

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