Tau Power level abuse 100PL

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Nymphomanius
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Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#1 » Oct 05 2017 03:42

So a few friends of mine wanted to do a little tournament in our local gaming centre and were originally going to go with 100PL and I told them that if it's competitive that we had to use points as PL is too easy to abuse.

They disagreed so I asked me to show me their lists amd between the 5 of them (2 SM 1 Ork 1 Genestealer cult 1 eldar) a 100PL was coming in at 1850-2100 points which is a fair gap then I showed them this list and now we are using points. This is more of a show and tell than advice unless someone else has a better example of how we can utterly abuse the PL system

P.S. I'm not condoning this type of play and I do not own all the models for this list it is purely an example list

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (T'au Empire) [100 PL, 2588pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [6 PL, 160pts]: 4x Fusion blaster

Commander [6 PL, 172pts]: 4x Missile pod

Commander [6 PL, 148pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster

Commander [6 PL, 160pts]: 4x Fusion blaster

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Kroot

Strike Team [3 PL, 63pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 63pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 63pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 63pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [11 PL, 342pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Missile pod
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Missile pod
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Missile pod

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [11 PL, 288pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [11 PL, 342pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Missile pod
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Missile pod
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Missile pod

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 97pts]
. Pathfinder: Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 97pts]
. Pathfinder: Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 97pts]
. Pathfinder: Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

+ Heavy Support +

MV71 Sniper Drones [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone

MV71 Sniper Drones [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 205pts]: 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile

++ Total: [100 PL, 2588pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#2 » Oct 05 2017 07:41

Abuse at the max for PL for us is on Crisis suits/commanders with missile pods, pathfinders with rail rifles. Min size all the squads and maximize their upgrades and spam them. Points/PL goes pathfinders, crisis, commander. Firewarriors actually come in at an underwhelming 21 points per PL when maxxed out which is actually just the top end of other things in the index. I'd do some vanguard and outrider detachments and see how badly you can make the points/pl.

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deathboon
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#3 » Oct 05 2017 07:56

Hmmm...

I actually think this is an excellent demonstration of just how overcosted our units are on points. And not only are we over priced, GW at least subconciously already knew it. If power level is a measure of relative power of different units, and we're coming in at that many points higher than other lists for the same PL, it doesn't mean our list is more powerful, just that it is more expensive.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#4 » Oct 05 2017 08:20

Yojimbob wrote:Abuse at the max for PL for us is on Crisis suits/commanders with missile pods, pathfinders with rail rifles. Min size all the squads and maximize their upgrades and spam them. Points/PL goes pathfinders, crisis, commander. Firewarriors actually come in at an underwhelming 21 points per PL when maxxed out which is actually just the top end of other things in the index. I'd do some vanguard and outrider detachments and see how badly you can make the points/pl.


So I reran it with just those 3 units with 3 outrider detachment in 100PL you can get 6 Commander w 4 MP
3 units of 3 XV8 w 3 MP each
10 squads of Pathfinder with 3 RR each
And a recon drone with your last PL for luck :D

That comes in at over 3000 points and has
30 rail rifles
20 markerlight
27 BS4+ MP
24 BS2+ MP

In what most armies will have 2000 points :eek:

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Glarblar
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#5 » Oct 05 2017 08:52

This is why hate doing PL with Tau. If I want to take something reasonable I get penalized for it b/c the top end of the unit is so high (9pt Flamer vs 28pt MP x3)

Nymphomanius
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#6 » Oct 05 2017 09:14

Glarblar wrote:This is why hate doing PL with Tau. If I want to take something reasonable I get penalized for it b/c the top end of the unit is so high (9pt Flamer vs 28pt MP x3)


To be fair it always used to be like that 4pt Flamer vs 20pt plasma rifle but missile pod used to be the staple of my lists I always used to take 6 suits with TL missile pod (or 2/3 each instead in newer editions) but now it feels like they are priced out especially vs the cyclic ion blaster

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Glarblar
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#7 » Oct 05 2017 09:38

CIB vs MP is a very interesting points comparison: For the extra points you get 9" of range for a comparable weapon.

Now they probably nit-picked on the points as a index re-balance, I could see them reverting back to previous editions where you had BC, FL, PR, AFP 5 points each and FB, MP, CIB 10 points each. Commanders getting a different point designation of like 5/20

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#8 » Oct 05 2017 09:52

Glarblar wrote:CIB vs MP is a very interesting points comparison: For the extra points you get 9" of range for a comparable weapon.

Now they probably nit-picked on the points as a index re-balance, I could see them reverting back to previous editions where you had BC, FL, PR, AFP 5 points each and FB, MP, CIB 10 points each. Commanders getting a different point designation of like 5/20


What army book are you looking at again?

There's an 18" difference between CIB + MP In regards to range with CIB having a better rate of fire and the ability to overcharge.

In which previous editions was the plasma rifle 5 points??!!
And when has a Commander had different points for their weapons as crisis suits?

And whilst I'm here in our last codex the points for our weapons were

Fl 5
BC 10
CIB,AFP,FB,MP,PR 15

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Glarblar
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#9 » Oct 05 2017 10:11

sorry, I was combining 2 schools of thoughts:

The points you are referencing is what I was thinking of, I mistakenly thought the PR was cheaper b/c its so cheap in 8th.

Then I was referencing a point cost in weapon loadouts between XV8 and commander b/c it was done in the IG book for veteran squads (BS 3+) taking Plasma Guns at an extra 7pts compared to infantry (BS 4+)

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Lostroninsoul
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Posts: 96

Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#10 » Oct 05 2017 02:59

I recommend having each crisis team lose one weapon on a shasui, replace it with a drone controller, add 6 gun drones .The shas'vre is the last model you want to die so it should never carry the DC. It will be a 3 point upgrade but the teams spawn with 6 extra wounds and fire an additional 24 shots at 4 bs. It's better on CiB and FB crisis suites. Mp suits can spawn with markerlight drones though which is also really good pointwise to have 6 markerlight drones on +4 bs.

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Panzer
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#11 » Oct 05 2017 03:03

If I recall correctly Gun Drones aren't that good in PL games though.

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Glarblar
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#12 » Oct 05 2017 03:56

Correct. With the assumption that 1 PL = 20 pts, 1 PL of gun drones is 16 points, now 1 PL of ML drones is 20 pts

kruetz
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#13 » Oct 05 2017 06:44

While the list is strong, there are no drones for the commanders or xv8s. This is obvious because for whatever reason drones are the least economical for only 16pts to be worth 1pl. I ran into this issue last week trying to build a list for a local 75pl tourney that allowed FW.

Don't even think of taking drones for pl on an xv9 (each drone cost 1pl :eek: )

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#14 » Oct 05 2017 07:24

kruetz wrote:While the list is strong, there are no drones for the commanders or xv8s. This is obvious because for whatever reason drones are the least economical for only 16pts to be worth 1pl. I ran into this issue last week trying to build a list for a local 75pl tourney that allowed FW.

Don't even think of taking drones for pl on an xv9 (each drone cost 1pl :eek: )

Sure, Drones become 25% more expensive in PL games, but how else are you going to protect your XV8s?

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#15 » Oct 05 2017 09:05

Arka0415 wrote:
kruetz wrote:While the list is strong, there are no drones for the commanders or xv8s. This is obvious because for whatever reason drones are the least economical for only 16pts to be worth 1pl. I ran into this issue last week trying to build a list for a local 75pl tourney that allowed FW.

Don't even think of taking drones for pl on an xv9 (each drone cost 1pl :eek: )

Sure, Drones become 25% more expensive in PL games, but how else are you going to protect your XV8s?


I think you have missed the point, this list is just theory showing how broken PL can be for Tau not a physical list to be used.

That said if I was playing with 3000 points vs 1850 in a "fair" fight I wouldn't be that bothered about protecting anything just overwhelming firepower ftw

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#16 » Oct 05 2017 09:11

In contrast one of the guys I play with showed me his 100PL black templars list and all he had was
Lieutenant
Emps champ
4x20 crusader squad
Dreadnought
Apothecary
5 terminators
Lascannon predator

It Comes to 1880 points vs 3040 ok the 80 Marines would be a pain to deal with but half of them only have a 4+ save but that's in no way a fair fight. Which is my point

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#17 » Oct 05 2017 09:13

Glarblar wrote:Correct. With the assumption that 1 PL = 20 pts, 1 PL of gun drones is 16 points, now 1 PL of ML drones is 20 pts


Even worse when you consider the second list averages 30.4 pts per PL

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 763

Re: Tau Power level abuse 100PL

Post#18 » Oct 06 2017 08:04

You can certainly come up with some skewed lists with PL. of course one glance at a tournament's top tables will tell you that you can do the same with points - just that things like brimstone/malefic lord spam are more limited by faction.

If you are playing a tournament then gaming the system - whatever the system in use - is to be expected. I am not sure that any of the lists on this thread are really any worse than is available to some factions with points. It's just that Tau are one of the indexes lacking such exploits when using points.

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