2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#19 » Nov 10 2017 07:46

Emberkahn wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:However, his gun isn't really that good. Will take a couple of wounds of a russ here and there, but it's not really that amazing.

This is the problem with R'alai. Tau currently do not have access to amazing firepower- we need to spam multiple of the same gun to have any effect. Commanders are only good because they have BS2+ and can take several of the same weapon- R'alai is basically a pile of upgrades and wargear that just aren't useful. His special Marker Drones are no different from ordinary ones and can't be replaced with Shield Drones, his BS2+ is wasted by having one gun, two systems, and an empty 4th slot, his "Assassin" special rule and special Shield Generator offer no real benefit.

For 155 points what are you getting? A durable character whose weapon is essentially two neutered Plasma Rifles? Sure, he's surprisingly durable, but that's his only redeeming feature.

Personally, I just don't see it.


His drones are AMAZING!!! Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE FRCKIN NINJAS!!! WS3+!!!! In all seriousness though I do love this part of their rules.

I must have missed the note where two WS3+ S3 AP0 D1 attacks is considered good. Especially on a unit that doesn't want to be in melee in the first place. :D

User avatar
Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
Posts: 116

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#20 » Nov 10 2017 07:47

Panzer wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:This is the problem with R'alai. Tau currently do not have access to amazing firepower- we need to spam multiple of the same gun to have any effect. Commanders are only good because they have BS2+ and can take several of the same weapon- R'alai is basically a pile of upgrades and wargear that just aren't useful. His special Marker Drones are no different from ordinary ones and can't be replaced with Shield Drones, his BS2+ is wasted by having one gun, two systems, and an empty 4th slot, his "Assassin" special rule and special Shield Generator offer no real benefit.

For 155 points what are you getting? A durable character whose weapon is essentially two neutered Plasma Rifles? Sure, he's surprisingly durable, but that's his only redeeming feature.

Personally, I just don't see it.


His drones are AMAZING!!! Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE FRCKIN NINJAS!!! WS3+!!!! In all seriousness though I do love this part of their rules.

I must have missed the note where two WS3+ S3 AP0 D1 attacks is considered good. Especially on a unit that doesn't want to be in melee in the first place. :D


Clearly the memo on sarcasm as well :P

Nonetheless, the fact that his drones are some of the best fighters in the Tau codex (on par with Commanders) is hillarious.

User avatar
You_Father_Sky
Shas
Posts: 20
Contact:

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#21 » Nov 11 2017 01:56

Hahaha. The drones having WS3 instead of BS3 almost seems like a persistent typo but I live with it haha.

Yeah he's cool because he has multi role flex, either as a DC commander or a manta dropper, that's a great catch on his body block ability too! Didn't consider that, but that is clever. The manta also allows you to get him in position for assassin.

I am going to try that with my QFC drop. Since I can literally swap places with ralai and my triple fusion with dc.
"For the glory of Kauyon, of course!"

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 809

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#22 » Nov 11 2017 04:15

Emberkahn wrote:Yeah in the time it took you to reply to this post I started taking him heaps and I have to agree.

However, his gun isn't really that good. Will take a couple of wounds of a russ here and there, but it's not really that amazing.

Mostly I just put him at the front of my commander blobs to provide a DC and an 8 wound T6 3++ barrier before they can touch my QFCs. He is cheap too!

Ultimately he is solid to take in a list because I love his style, but he's not so strong to propel him to the level of QFCs. Quite balanced. If a QFC is a 9.5 and a crisis suit (without flamers) is a 4/5, he is probably a 7.5.


Relative to the list at the top of this thread he is a drop-in replacement for one of the 3xMP + DC commanders. He does pretty much exactly the same job of drone swarm buddy with some long-range fire support. Unlike the MP commander he is very tanky and if your opponent clears out all the drones he can stand in front of your more squishy commanders to keep them alive and shooting for longer.

As for his gun it does lack volume of fire but S9 is pretty rare for Tau and tends to define his best targets. Against a Leman Russ or similar target he can almost match the MP commander for damage output, it is not a huge amount but if he chips off the last couple of wounds that poor Fusion Blaster D6 rolls left behind you will be glad of it. The assassin rule does not often come into play, unless character Tank Commanders or Daemon Primarchs are popular in your local meta in which case you will be using it all the time.

I would say that adding him in is a solid call right now. Once we have a Codex that might change depending on how good the Sept rules are because he has a fixed sept that may well get no rules for a while.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#23 » Nov 11 2017 04:34

nic wrote:Relative to the list at the top of this thread he is a drop-in replacement for one of the 3xMP + DC commanders.


A 3xMP Commander will end up causing more damage, but does cost more than R'alai. However, R'alai does need to buy his Marker Drones too though, which actually makes him 5 points more expensive. Let's look at a few scenarios:

#1: HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Drone Controller (153)
#2: HQ - Shas'O R'alai; 2x Blacklight Marker Drones (158)

vs. Sentinel:
#1: 6 shots > 5 hits > 3.3 wounds > 1.7 unsaved > 3.4 damage
#2: 2 shots > 1.7 hits > 1.1 wounds > 0.7 unsaved > 1.5 damage

vs. Chimera:
#1: 6 shots > 5 hits > 2.5 wounds > 1.3 unsaved > 2.6 damage
#2: 2 shots > 1.7 hits > 1.1 wounds > 0.7 unsaved > 1.5 damage

vs. Leman Russ:
#1: 6 shots > 5 hits > 1.7 wounds > 0.9 unsaved > 1.8 damage
#2: 2 shots > 1.7 hits > 1.1 wounds > 0.7 unsaved > 1.5 damage

S9 is an interesting characteristic- it basically means that you wound everything on 3+. So R'alai has amusingly consistent damage- as long as his target has T5-T8 and Sv3+, his output remains the same.

However, his low shot volume just makes his damage ultimately not that good. If you didn't need to take those Drones though, he'd only cost 130 points, making him much more viable than the Commander. Oh well.

User avatar
Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
Posts: 116

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#24 » Nov 11 2017 04:46

His drones are actually quite good; they are mirror effectiveness to pathfinders when he has a DC, except they also body block. I don't object to him having to take them. Plus, WS3+ am I right?!?!

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#25 » Nov 11 2017 04:55

Emberkahn wrote:His drones are actually quite good; they are mirror effectiveness to pathfinders when he has a DC, except they also body block. I don't object to him having to take them. Plus, WS3+ am I right?!?!

My issue is that, as a dedicated drone controller Commander, R'alai will basically always be surrounded by drones. An ideal configuration would have several 5-model or 6-model drone units, each with a single Marker Drone. That way the Marker Drones can't be sniped- whereas the Blacklight Marker Drones are too easy to remove, since they lack the Character keyword.

User avatar
Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
Posts: 116

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#26 » Nov 11 2017 05:29

Arka0415 wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:His drones are actually quite good; they are mirror effectiveness to pathfinders when he has a DC, except they also body block. I don't object to him having to take them. Plus, WS3+ am I right?!?!

My issue is that, as a dedicated drone controller Commander, R'alai will basically always be surrounded by drones. An ideal configuration would have several 5-model or 6-model drone units, each with a single Marker Drone. That way the Marker Drones can't be sniped- whereas the Blacklight Marker Drones are too easy to remove, since they lack the Character keyword.


Fair analysis! I deepstrike R'alai (along with as much of my army as I can to avoid alpha strike) so i hadn't thought about it that way.

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 809

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#27 » Nov 11 2017 05:46

Arka0415 wrote:My issue is that, as a dedicated drone controller Commander, R'alai will basically always be surrounded by drones. An ideal configuration would have several 5-model or 6-model drone units, each with a single Marker Drone. That way the Marker Drones can't be sniped- whereas the Blacklight Marker Drones are too easy to remove, since they lack the Character keyword.


That list is already crammed with 2-drone units. Adding in one more - marker rather than shield - is not really so bad. MSU is still a decent way to cause opponents to use their firepower inefficiently. Treating those drones as wasted points is not very realistic in that list, at the very least they divert some bolter fire away from shield drones, which is not nothing.

Once we admit that in context the drones are delivering something for the points then R'alai is cheaper than the MP commander - so you are really looking at a different balance of offensive output vs defensive damage soaking. I personally think his defensive boost is bigger than his loss of offensive output so he is worth a slot - if pure offensive output is all you care about then you would quite rationally choose otherwise.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#28 » Nov 11 2017 07:51

nic wrote:That list is already crammed with 2-drone units. Adding in one more - marker rather than shield - is not really so bad. MSU is still a decent way to cause opponents to use their firepower inefficiently. Treating those drones as wasted points is not very realistic in that list, at the very least they divert some bolter fire away from shield drones, which is not nothing.

I mean, just in general. If you can take a pair of Marker Drones, or embed those Marker Drones into Tactcal Drone squads, choose the latter option.

Also, pairs of Drones that aren't Shield Drones aren't good.

nic wrote:You are really looking at a different balance of offensive output vs defensive damage soaking. I personally think his defensive boost is bigger than his loss of offensive output so he is worth a slot - if pure offensive output is all you care about then you would quite rationally choose otherwise.

R'alai's durability only matters if his Tactical Drone swarm gets killed though. Those abilities aren't going to come into play until late-game.

User avatar
You_Father_Sky
Shas
Posts: 20
Contact:

Re: 2000 pts highly competitive/perfect Tau list

Post#29 » Nov 12 2017 07:41

Which is arguably when you need them. He's not a helpless limp potato on his own.

I find his 2 unit good for jumping over onto an objective or hiding in a trash can somewhere.

Whatever the case, Tau have a lot going for them right now.
"For the glory of Kauyon, of course!"

Return to “Cadre Building”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests