Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#1 » Oct 31 2017 10:10

I figured I'd bring this to the main board. We've been talking a lot about mechanized units recently. Any thoughts on adding a Devilfish and some Gun Drones to my normal list? Seems like the right thing to do.

The list itself has had great success, but it's been pointed out (thanks, QimRas!) that it's tactically inflexible. So, the mechanized Gun Drones might help with that. Here goes:

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HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Gun Drones, 2x Seeker Missiles (201)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights (56)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total: 1999 - CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Longstrike is using Gun Drones, as they may potentially detach to go assist the Devilfish. I wish I could add more Pathfinders, but the list feels tight already.

What do you think?
Last edited by Arka0415 on Oct 31 2017 10:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Beerson
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#2 » Oct 31 2017 10:30

I would get rid of etheral and/or FW squad, put ML on FW shas'ui to make your ML less easily targeted, add some gun drones to take advantage of fireblade and give em shield drone per unit, maybe squeeze in those pathfinders if you feel you need more ML, if you want those FW for objectives Kroot are better option then 3rd squad imo

but that's just my unedicated opinion, don't have much of experience in 8th

Larlock
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#3 » Oct 31 2017 07:05

Is Aun'Va only 75 points with the 2x honor guard? I thought it was 75 points per model.

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Panzer
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#4 » Oct 31 2017 07:35

Larlock wrote:Is Aun'Va only 75 points with the 2x honor guard? I thought it was 75 points per model.

Yeah Aun'Va is only 75 points together with the guards. Aun'Va is 65p and each guard with honor blade is 5p.

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Arka0415
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#5 » Oct 31 2017 08:31

Beerson wrote:I would get rid of etheral and/or FW squad, put ML on FW shas'ui to make your ML less easily targeted, add some gun drones to take advantage of fireblade and give em shield drone per unit, maybe squeeze in those pathfinders if you feel you need more ML, if you want those FW for objectives Kroot are better option then 3rd squad imo

The Ethereal allows me to bring those large squads, which in turn decreases the number of drops. The three squads of Fire Warriors are important I feel, as they allow me to make a two-line defense while also multiplying the buff provided by the Fireblade. Kroot might would be good by themselves holding an objective somewhere, but the idea here is to have a powerful "castle" of cheap units on one objective. And sadly, Shield Drones really don't work well with infantry. If I had the points I'd definitely get Markerlights on the Shas'ui though, that's a decent option.

Panzer wrote:
Larlock wrote:Is Aun'Va only 75 points with the 2x honor guard? I thought it was 75 points per model.

Yeah Aun'Va is only 75 points together with the guards. Aun'Va is 65p and each guard with honor blade is 5p.

He's great too :D

If I was playing in a real tournament I'd probably swap him out, but if I'm going to run an Ethereal anyway, he's just too cool to pass up.

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Panzer
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#6 » Oct 31 2017 08:42

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Larlock wrote:Is Aun'Va only 75 points with the 2x honor guard? I thought it was 75 points per model.

Yeah Aun'Va is only 75 points together with the guards. Aun'Va is 65p and each guard with honor blade is 5p.

He's great too :D

If I was playing in a real tournament I'd probably swap him out, but if I'm going to run an Ethereal anyway, he's just too cool to pass up.

I honestly rarely have any use for Ethereas in my lists, but yeah if I had to play an Ethereal and if the Sept wouldn't matter, I'd take him ... or Aun'Shi because he is just a friggin badass even by normal human standards. :D

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Arka0415
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#7 » Oct 31 2017 09:48

Panzer wrote:I honestly rarely have any use for Ethereas in my lists, but yeah if I had to play an Ethereal and if the Sept wouldn't matter, I'd take him ... or Aun'Shi because he is just a friggin badass even by normal human standards. :D

For non-tournament but still-competitive lists, he gives such amazing utility for just 75 points. He's durable, provides two aura buffs and one table-wide buff, and synergizes well with both Fire Warriors and Battlesuits. Plus, he's a great fluffy addition for casual games you don't want to lose, and you can easily swap him out for a few upgrades or models in real competitive games.

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Emberkahn
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#8 » Nov 01 2017 02:16

I am strong on ditching fire warriors. Drones are just better in every way. Same thing with XV8s tbh. If you want them as a gun drone deployment mechanism, Hazard suits do it more efficiently whilst themselves being better at their job. If you want them for their own firepower, commanders are just straight up better.

Lastly if you are taking Longstrike, seriously consider a second hammerhead at least. Most of Longstrikes viability comes from his AOE buff.

That being said, I do love the diversity of your list, and I understand that my recommendations might come off as a bit samey.

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Arka0415
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#9 » Nov 01 2017 04:26

Emberkahn wrote:I am strong on ditching fire warriors. Drones are just better in every way. Same thing with XV8s tbh. If you want them as a gun drone deployment mechanism, Hazard suits do it more efficiently whilst themselves being better at their job. If you want them for their own firepower, commanders are just straight up better.

Here's a point where I agree with you, but it just isn't worth it at this stage of the game. I have plenty of Fire Warriors from past editions, and tons of unbuilt Gun Drones. Who knows, Gun Drones might end up worse next edition while Fire Warriors get better, and it's anyone's guess as to what happens with Forgeworld units like the XV9. When the Codex comes out I'd be happy to switch to a more mono-focused build, but while we're still an Index army I don't want to (possibly) waste time buying and painting units that might end up sub-optimal in the soon-to-be-out Codex.

That's my justification for now! :D

Emberkahn wrote:Lastly if you are taking Longstrike, seriously consider a second hammerhead at least. Most of Longstrikes viability comes from his AOE buff.

I actually disagree here. Longstrike has four distinct buffs for only 20 points more than a regular Hammerhead. He hits on 2+ compared to the 3+ of the Hammerhead, he wounds all vehicles and monsters on 2+ compared to the 3+ of the Hammerhead, and he gives himself +1 to hit, meaning he can still move and fire at full ballistic skill, and he has double the chance to cause D3 mortal wounds. That's four great abilities for only 20 points- if you could buy each of them separately for 5 points each, would you? Longstrike essentially has a 70% chance to cause a wound on a vehicle, compared to the Hammerhead's paltry 45%. Buffing other Hammerheads is just icing on the cake! :biggrin:

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Emberkahn
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#10 » Nov 01 2017 05:19

Arka0415 wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:I am strong on ditching fire warriors. Drones are just better in every way. Same thing with XV8s tbh. If you want them as a gun drone deployment mechanism, Hazard suits do it more efficiently whilst themselves being better at their job. If you want them for their own firepower, commanders are just straight up better.

Here's a point where I agree with you, but it just isn't worth it at this stage of the game. I have plenty of Fire Warriors from past editions, and tons of unbuilt Gun Drones. Who knows, Gun Drones might end up worse next edition while Fire Warriors get better, and it's anyone's guess as to what happens with Forgeworld units like the XV9. When the Codex comes out I'd be happy to switch to a more mono-focused build, but while we're still an Index army I don't want to (possibly) waste time buying and painting units that might end up sub-optimal in the soon-to-be-out Codex.

That's my justification for now! :D

Emberkahn wrote:Lastly if you are taking Longstrike, seriously consider a second hammerhead at least. Most of Longstrikes viability comes from his AOE buff.

I actually disagree here. Longstrike has four distinct buffs for only 20 points more than a regular Hammerhead. He hits on 2+ compared to the 3+ of the Hammerhead, he wounds all vehicles and monsters on 2+ compared to the 3+ of the Hammerhead, and he gives himself +1 to hit, meaning he can still move and fire at full ballistic skill, and he has double the chance to cause D3 mortal wounds. That's four great abilities for only 20 points- if you could buy each of them separately for 5 points each, would you? Longstrike essentially has a 70% chance to cause a wound on a vehicle, compared to the Hammerhead's paltry 45%. Buffing other Hammerheads is just icing on the cake! :biggrin:


Definitely understandable not buying units. I play on Table-top simulator, so its not really an issue for me. I often forget the model limitation.

And fair regarding Longstrike and Hammerheads! I more just use them as seeker platforms, where the extra BS tends to mean quite a lot on the hammerheads. This being said, I agree, Hammerheads leave much to be desired.

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Beerson
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#11 » Nov 01 2017 09:39

Arka0415 wrote: The three squads of Fire Warriors are important I feel, as they allow me to make a two-line defense while also multiplying the buff provided by the Fireblade. Kroot might would be good by themselves holding an objective somewhere, but the idea here is to have a powerful "castle" of cheap units on one objective. And sadly, Shield Drones really don't work well with infantry. If I had the points I'd definitely get Markerlights on the Shas'ui though, that's a decent option.


The idea was that with gun drones you get real advantage of the Fireblade while you can put shield drones with them (not with FW) into same unit making them much more survivable then FW, also they give your Fire warriors extra survivability through saviour protocols (making sure you don't fail morale) and double the shots on overwatch (though with lower BS, wish we could still take DC on Shas'ui)

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Arka0415
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#12 » Nov 01 2017 10:18

Beerson wrote:The idea was that with gun drones you get real advantage of the Fireblade while you can put shield drones with them (not with FW) into same unit making them much more survivable then FW

Now that's a fun trick! I'll need to keep that in mind.

Beerson wrote:also they give your Fire warriors extra survivability through saviour protocols (making sure you don't fail morale) and double the shots on overwatch (though with lower BS, wish we could still take DC on Shas'ui)

Good point about Savior Protocols, though passing damage to a Gun Drone (from a Fire Warrior) actually multplies the damage considerably.

A single Bolter firing...
...at a Gun Drone directly: 0.17 damage
...at a Fire Warrior directly: 0.22 damage
...at a Fire Warrior, passing to a Gun Drone via Savior Protocols: 0.44 damage

So, if use Savior Protocols on a Fire Warrior the damage almost triples.

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Beerson
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#13 » Nov 01 2017 11:03

Arka0415 wrote:A single Bolter firing...
...at a Gun Drone directly: 0.17 damage
...at a Fire Warrior directly: 0.22 damage
...at a Fire Warrior, passing to a Gun Drone via Savior Protocols: 0.44 damage

So, if use Savior Protocols on a Fire Warrior the damage almost triples.


I'm kinda lost here, how does the damage double when you pass it to drone? you are passing the same damage after save throws, so you can't take more damage

also in case your opponend would get desperate and shoot you with multiple wound weapon, you can use the drone to cheat the death and only remove one 8p model instead of multiple (as far as I understand it, not sure how it works with single wound units)

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Panzer
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#14 » Nov 01 2017 11:06

Beerson wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:A single Bolter firing...
...at a Gun Drone directly: 0.17 damage
...at a Fire Warrior directly: 0.22 damage
...at a Fire Warrior, passing to a Gun Drone via Savior Protocols: 0.44 damage

So, if use Savior Protocols on a Fire Warrior the damage almost triples.


I'm kinda lost here, how does the damage double when you pass it to drone? you are passing the same damage after save throws, so you can't take more damage

also in case your opponend would get desperate and shoot you with multiple wound weapon, you can use the drone to cheat the death and only remove one 8p model instead of multiple (as far as I understand it, not sure how it works with single wound units)

Because you can't take its 4+ armor save when you use Saviour Protocols.
Multi-damage weapons won't kill more than one Firewarrior per wound ever. Damage doesn't spill over, only Mortal wounds do. ;)

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Beerson
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#15 » Nov 01 2017 11:10

Panzer wrote:Because you can't take its 4+ armor save when you use Saviour Protocols.
Multi-damage weapons won't kill more than one Firewarrior per wound ever. Damage doesn't spill over, only Mortal wounds do. ;)


wait, I swear I red that you use saviour protocols after armor save throws, so how does it work anyway, opponent rolls on wound and you use drone and it's killed with no throws on your side (unless FnP)?

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Panzer
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#16 » Nov 01 2017 11:15

Beerson wrote:
Panzer wrote:Because you can't take its 4+ armor save when you use Saviour Protocols.
Multi-damage weapons won't kill more than one Firewarrior per wound ever. Damage doesn't spill over, only Mortal wounds do. ;)


wait, I swear I red that you use saviour protocols after armor save throws, so how does it work anyway, opponent rolls on wound and you use drone and it's killed with no throws on your side (unless FnP)?

lol no you use it on successful wounds. Means after the to-wound roll (or if something wounds automatically) but before saves.
In fluff terms: the Drone determined that the incoming shot is coming in strong enough to injure the Infantry/Battlesuit nearby and decides it's better to intercept...which would obviously happen before saves. ;)

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Arka0415
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#17 » Nov 01 2017 06:47

Panzer wrote:
Beerson wrote:wait, I swear I read that you use saviour protocols after armor save throws, so how does it work anyway, opponent rolls on wound and you use drone and it's killed with no throws on your side (unless FnP)?

lol no you use it on successful wounds. Means after the to-wound roll (or if something wounds automatically) but before saves.

Yeah, passing wounds on to drones is only effective in lessening damage if (a) the target that was wounded has a high toughness, (b) the drone has a FNP-style save, or (c) the weapon deals multiple damage. But passing single-damage wounds from Fire Warriors to Drones only make sthings worse.
Last edited by Arka0415 on Nov 02 2017 09:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Beerson
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Re: Adding Mechanized Gun Drones - 2000pts

Post#18 » Nov 02 2017 08:45

I see now, I guess I misred something, thanks for the clarification

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