2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

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xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#1 » Nov 05 2017 04:48

So im looking at a couple of tournaments next year, Im not hardcore competitive but i do want to have a list to compete (hard with no codex i know!) Couple of restrictions, only 2 detatchments one must be a Battalion.

List 1 - Longstrike and the 2x Hammerheads will castle in my DZ, I've gone for the FW support HH's as they seem on paper pretty nice anti infantry/horde and with Longstrike they will hit on 2's if they don't move.
Drones will start as an anti deepstrike screen for the 3 Hammerheads.
Commanders will deepstrike as required.
Firewarriors are for some objective holding.
The Ytide...will do what ytides do!

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [48 PL, 872pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [6 PL, 153pts]: Drone controller, 3x Missile pod

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 58pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 58pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 58pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 58pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 58pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [22 PL, 429pts]: 2x MV52 Shield Drone, Target lock

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [61 PL, 1127pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Longstrike [11 PL, 191pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Railgun

+ Troops +

Strike Team [6 PL, 66pts]: 7x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle, MV7 Marker Drone

Strike Team [5 PL, 56pts]: 7x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 56pts]: 7x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 203pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Twin heavy burst cannon

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 203pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Twin heavy burst cannon

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

List 2
This one's pretty obvious, no ML support in this one though i tend to find my ML support is the first thing to die so...it hardly impacts games for long and therefore becomes a tax.



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [54 PL, 1103pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Longstrike [11 PL, 220pts]: 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, Seeker missile

+ Troops +

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]: 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]: 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]: 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 203pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Twin heavy burst cannon

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 208pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Seeker missile, Twin heavy burst cannon

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [43 PL, 894pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [22 PL, 402pts]: 2x Burst cannon, Cluster rocket system, 4x Destroyer missile, Early warning override, Pulse blastcannon, 2x Smart missile system, Velocity tracker

++ Total: [97 PL, 1997pts] ++


Thoughts? Total re-designs?

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 427

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#2 » Nov 06 2017 09:12

List number 2 is a much better list than the first in my opinion. First list has a lot of elements that would prefer to be static and would likely lull you into staying static whereas the second list has a SS that will likely run around being a big distraction carnifex while allowing the workhorses (commanders) to go do their thing and spread the board a bit more. I do think it NEEDS to have ML support with CIB commanders though. I'd much rather have a 2.7% chance to take a wound from an overcharged CIB than 16.6%.

Hard to say where the points should come from but I would drop a Commander to max out the seekers on all hammerheads, add two 5 man pathfinder squads, add ML to each strike team shas'ui, add ATS to the SS and change VT for a shield gen. SS MUST have ATS and shield gen, third slot is up to you but I definitely prefer using EWO since he can fire ALL weapons at each deepstriking unit within 12 inches of the model. If they decide to show up near him, they will get punished. I'd probably also just dump the rest of the points into gun drones, multiple 4 man squads and keep them near commanders. Change out an ATS on one of the two CIB commanders for a DC if you end up getting a bunch of drones, otherwise use them as extra wounds.

xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#3 » Nov 06 2017 12:17

Making alterations as you suggested would leave something like this.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [63 PL, 1074pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Longstrike [11 PL, 191pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Railgun

+ Troops +

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 5x Pathfinder: 5x Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 5x Pathfinder: 5x Markerlight

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 48pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Heavy Support +

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 213pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x Seeker missile, Twin heavy burst cannon

TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 213pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x Seeker missile, Twin heavy burst cannon

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [43 PL, 924pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Lord of War +

KV128 Stormsurge [22 PL, 440pts]: 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Cluster rocket system, 4x Destroyer missile, Early warning override, Pulse blastcannon, Shield generator, 2x Smart missile system

++ Total: [106 PL, 1998pts] ++

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 427

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#4 » Nov 06 2017 01:33

I like it better, but what do you think? Does this fit YOUR play style or will this leave you feeling like you're missing something?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2147

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#5 » Nov 06 2017 08:13

Cool list! I love it.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 218

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#6 » Nov 06 2017 10:05

I played three games on Saturday with my stormsurge and let me tell you Akra0415 is right you want to have Shield generator on it. Because of the shield generator it survived all three games where it otherwise would have not lasted past turn two. I was playing at 1500 points. At 2000 points your opponents should be more equipped to shoot it off the table. 2 Lascannons do (example: razorback) do 2.592 damage in one shooting phase to stormsurge on average. With a shield generator the average damage drops to 1.555 damage/turn. This allows you to enjoy your cannon and you average ~30 strength 5 shots longer. Using a command point to reroll an invulnerable save on a D6 would be wound also feels very good. Ibelieve the stormsurge is most at home between 18-30 inches which means he will probably get in range of the heaviest firepower your opponent will throw at it.

I think velocity tracker is probably not needed since you have commanders and longshot that can shoot flyers well. The stormsurge can also shoot flyers pretty well with out it with its sheer volume of 5 strength shots. But I think it's better than EWO. It also it still a very good system to run. After playing Saturday with a stim injector I have grown biased to it.

Also don't forget, you can choose medium range pulse blast profile under 10". It doesn't say you "have to" choose close range. Caught my opponent off guard when I incinerated a charging one man terminator squad in overwatch, followed by incinerating a commissar in overwatch. I love the medium range pulse blasterprofile :smile:

Consider a smart missle system for longstrike. He can move and shoot with 2 BS since he buffs himself. Smart missles wound vechiles/monsters on hit rolls of +4 with him.

Mathhammering load outs, will show your commander does the same amount of damage with 4 cyclic damage versus 3CIB w/ats. The difference is one load out is different only by being cheaper. 4 CIBs is literally only slightly better if and only if -1 ap and -2 ap literally are same result in a save value (example: +3 save with +4invulenerable save, 4cibs).

I like pathfinders a lot. I think they are great bubblewrap. They entice your opponents to waste shots into wrong targets. ^_^ #YES!please

xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#7 » Nov 07 2017 12:44

Yojimbob wrote:I like it better, but what do you think? Does this fit YOUR play style or will this leave you feeling like you're missing something?


Absolutely, my playtime with Tau is limited having only recently moved on from collecting Marines.
Being a tournament lists im shooting for an all rounder list which i think is about where i am at.

Lostroninsoul wrote:Also don't forget, you can choose medium range pulse blast profile under 10". It doesn't say you "have to" choose close range. Caught my opponent off guard when I incinerated a charging one man terminator squad in overwatch, followed by incinerating a commissar in overwatch. I love the medium range pulse blasterprofile :smile:


Are we sure about this? I was expecting it to be similar to other profiles ( may choose a shooting profile) however the Stormsurge doesn't have that wording...but it also doesn't say you can't.

Im assuming people don't make much use out of the Stabalising Anchors if people are constantly moving it around.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 427

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#8 » Nov 07 2017 02:03

xDefiantx wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:Also don't forget, you can choose medium range pulse blast profile under 10". It doesn't say you "have to" choose close range. Caught my opponent off guard when I incinerated a charging one man terminator squad in overwatch, followed by incinerating a commissar in overwatch. I love the medium range pulse blasterprofile :smile:


Are we sure about this? I was expecting it to be similar to other profiles ( may choose a shooting profile) however the Stormsurge doesn't have that wording...but it also doesn't say you can't.

Im assuming people don't make much use out of the Stabalising Anchors if people are constantly moving it around.


Definitely can choose which profile if it fits in the distance restriction. You can technically use the 30" profile too.

Stabilizing Anchors can be used at the end of the shooting phase and then retracted at the beginning of the movement phase IF you need it to move. You only miss out on piling in if he gets in combat so there's no real drawback in declaring that you anchor every turn even if you plan on moving next turn. In 7th ed this was more of a gamble because technically you could be run over with tank shock and if you didn't kill it with death or glory, your SS just died because it couldn't run away. Thankfully, this no longer affects us.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 218

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#9 » Nov 07 2017 02:36

I have only limited experience using stormsurge. I have only about 6 hours of playtime /3games. The pulse driver/pulse blaster cannon is nice but I think the stormsurge needs to move to keep moving to the opponent until at least the smart missles are in range. This way you have abig cannon in range with at least ~22 5 strength shots (hopefully you have ats). Then the stormsurge can make up the points. Sitting him further than 30" is probably a big waste of points. If the burst cannon can chime in than that's icing to the cake.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#10 » Nov 07 2017 02:44

Lostroninsoul wrote:I have only limited experience using stormsurge. I have only about 6 hours of playtime /3games. The pulse driver/pulse blaster cannon is nice but I think the stormsurge needs to move to keep moving to the opponent until at least the smart missles are in range. This way you have abig cannon in range with at least ~22 5 strength shots (hopefully you have ats). Then the stormsurge can make up the points. Sitting him further than 30" is probably a big waste of points. If the burst cannon can chime in than that's icing to the cake.

Since SMS have 30" it means he basically doesn't have to move at all. :D
Also I'd say anchoring and shooting with the main gun and Cluster Rocket System twice is better than moving to get into range for the SMS lol
Also also if you place your Stormsurge central and your enemy keeps more than 30" away from him the whole game then you've basically won anyway. Feel free to grab all those tasty objectives. :D

xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#11 » Nov 07 2017 05:03

Playing against DG using Table Top sim, had to save turn 3 as my opponent had to leave.

VP 4 -1 in my favour.

Realistically the game is over, he has one half health Pread and a half health DP left on the table as his main units, everything else is either chaos spawn, blightbringer or a sorc.
My only casualties are the two fusion commanders and their 4 drones.

His deamon prince has been standout with it's 2+ save, as all my decent AP guns have been shooting Leviathan Dread and a Pread which is probably the only thing i feel i lack, is enough high AP against a list that is heavy on saves.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#12 » Nov 07 2017 05:17

xDefiantx wrote:Playing against DG using Table Top sim, had to save turn 3 as my opponent had to leave.

VP 4 -1 in my favour.

Realistically the game is over, he has one half health Pread and a half health DP left on the table as his main units, everything else is either chaos spawn, blightbringer or a sorc.
My only casualties are the two fusion commanders and their 4 drones.

His deamon prince has been standout with it's 2+ save, as all my decent AP guns have been shooting Leviathan Dread and a Pread which is probably the only thing i feel i lack, is enough high AP against a list that is heavy on saves.

Did he have some of the Drones? I've read from DG player on B&C that those do some serious work in their lists basically all the time.

xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#13 » Nov 08 2017 04:08

No drones.

2x 4Lascannon Preads
1x 2 Grav flux Levi Dread
2x 5man plague marines (can't remember the setup)
Some pox walkers and cultists
Sorc
Plague caster
And nothing else that was worth a mention really

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#14 » Nov 08 2017 04:17

That barely sounds like a DG list. :D

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2147

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#15 » Nov 08 2017 04:46

Panzer wrote:That barely sounds like a DG list. :D


Well, I think we're used to seeing DG lists like this on the net:

1x Mortarion
4x Drones
100x Poxwalkers

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#16 » Nov 08 2017 04:55

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:That barely sounds like a DG list. :D


Well, I think we're used to seeing DG lists like this on the net:

1x Mortarion
4x Drones
100x Poxwalkers

Not me at least lol

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2147

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#17 » Nov 08 2017 06:30

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:That barely sounds like a DG list. :D


Well, I think we're used to seeing DG lists like this on the net:

1x Mortarion
4x Drones
100x Poxwalkers

Not me at least lol


Obviously no one's going to bring 100 Poxwalkers, but you get the idea! Nobody plays (competent) Death Guard in my area, but from what I've seen online it looks like big stuff- Mortarion, Drones, Daemon Princes, Daemon Engines, etc; with an army like that you're also bound to see chaff like Poxwalkers.

Or just Mortarion + Magnus combo :fear:

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 2000 point lists - Tournament Lists

Post#18 » Nov 08 2017 06:40

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Well, I think we're used to seeing DG lists like this on the net:

1x Mortarion
4x Drones
100x Poxwalkers

Not me at least lol


Obviously no one's going to bring 100 Poxwalkers, but you get the idea! Nobody plays (competent) Death Guard in my area, but from what I've seen online it looks like big stuff- Mortarion, Drones, Daemon Princes, Daemon Engines, etc; with an army like that you're also bound to see chaff like Poxwalkers.

Or just Mortarion + Magnus combo :fear:

The armies I see certainly include the Drones and Poxwalker since they are just good and a Daemon Prince is often there as well but also lots of Plague Marines and the unique DG Characters and not necessarily Mortarion all the time.
What I was getting at is that an army consisting of mainly Predators, a Leviathan Dread, Cultists and only few Plague Marines and Poxwalker is more of a CSM army than a DG army. ;)

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