New Player Need List Help

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
turin02
Shas
Posts: 5

New Player Need List Help

Post#1 » Nov 25 2017 04:23

A buddy of mine really enjoys playing 40k and I agreed to buy an army. I haven been checking this site out off and on for a time and started to collect miniatures. I think we are targeting 1000pts, I think i will have enough, and if yall can see a path to higher 1.5k i would appreciate it.

So I have purchased a getting started box and a cadre fireblade. I am also receiving a second getting started box, a ghostkeel, stealth suits box, pathfinder box, and a devilfish. I was using the below as a guide for an army based on some advise by Arka0415 to another poster back in July. I would like to figure out how to fit a devilfish full of gun drones and fireblade as well. I think the idea is to place a gun line, devilfish, infiltrate ghostkeel and stealth, then bring commander/s (crisis suits from getting started box) and crisis suits from deep strike. i think pts are an issue for all that, but would love to listen to the expertise.

Stealth List:

Cadre Fireblade - 42pts
-Markerlight

Commander - 160pts
-1 Commander
-4 Fusion Blasters

Strike Team - 96pts
-12 Fire Warriors

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits - 325pts
-3 XV8s
-8 Cyclic Ion Blasters
-1 Drone Controller
-5 Gun Drones
-1 Marker Drone

Stealthsuits - 113
-3 XV25s
-3 Burst Cannons
-2 Gun Drones
-Drone Controller
-Velocity Tracker

Ghostkeel - 161
-1 XV95
-2 Stealth Drones
-1 Cyclic Ion Raker
-2 Burst Cannons
-Advanced Targeting System
-Target Lock

Pathfinder Team - 56pts
-6 Pathfinders
-4 Markerlights
-2 Ion Rifles

Tactical Drones - 48pts
-6 Gun Drones

Total: 1001 points (4 CP)

I have still not played a game, but been watching lots of youtube and listening to some podcasts. if i am misunderstanding the best way to play, please let me know.

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Beerson
Shas'Saal
Posts: 107

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#2 » Nov 25 2017 05:49

Imo put shield drone to your 6 man drone squads, split FW into two teams, preferably get rid of dc on crisis an pair the drones with stealths and fireblade after doployment (gets you another gun on crisis)

also I wouldn't use VT on single stealth as it's not going to be big difference and will only disrupt your throws if it comes to play, either take two or none imo

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2201

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#3 » Nov 26 2017 08:14

turin02 wrote:I was using the below as a guide for an army based on some advise by Arka0415 to another poster back in July. I would like to figure out how to fit a devilfish full of gun drones and fireblade as well. I think the idea is to place a gun line, devilfish, infiltrate ghostkeel and stealth, then bring commander/s (crisis suits from getting started box) and crisis suits from deep strike. i think pts are an issue for all that, but would love to listen to the expertise.

Hi turin02! I'm glad you checked out my little guide! Things have changed since then, but your list is off to a great start! In terms of anti-elite firepower and whatnot, you're doing great- the Ghostkeel and XV8s (about 55% of your list) will really be able to hammer elite units. The Commander, with those anti-elite units as pocket support, will be able to take care of most tanks, assuming he stays alive. The little problem, though, is that you don't have much that can bring down hordes of units- as you correctly pointed out, Gun Drones could absolutely help there!

A few things first though- those Stealthsuits need a Homing Beacon, the Commander needs his Shield Drones, and the Ghostkeel's total cost is actually 181, not 161. This brings your list to 1057, and we're still trying to squeeze a Devilfish full of Gun Drones in! All in all, it looks like you're trying to make a 1500-point list, not a 1000-point list.

However, if we give the XV8s ATS (the better option nowadays), drop the Fire Warriors and the Stealthsuit wargear, we still have to drop 86 more points to fit in this Devilfish! Here's the list right now:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (56)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Total: 1086

It's a great start for a 1500-point list, but dropping those 86 points is going to be really difficult. You're basically looking at this choice: which of your 3 Elites choices to do want to remove? Frankly, the easiest choice would be to remove the XV8s, and replace them with a CIB Commander. Don't worry about buying two Commanders- just use the XV8s from the starter set! Also, we can split the mechanized Gun Drones into 2+4+5 to make things a little more efficient. Check this list out:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Firesight Marksman w/ Markerlight (24)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (56)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Total: 998 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

There's a simple list with the extra Commander, a Firesight Marksman for the backup Markerlight and bonus Command Point (from the Vanguard Detachment), and a little flanking group fo 5 bonus Gun Drones. By the way, one other option would be to drop the Ghostkeel (instead of the XV8s, in the original list). Anyway, what do you think?

turin02
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#4 » Nov 26 2017 01:11

Looks good, i guess. Hard for me to say having never player before. My first question should probably be is that a good list of items to buy trying to put together my first army. So adding a second getting started box, ghostkeel, stealth suits and devilfish? And to go along with that, am i trying to force the devilfish too much in a 1000pt game?

I was just playing with numbers and came up with the below based upon what i have:

Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (44)
999pts - 5 command (Outrider and Vanguard)

Adding
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle (40)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle (40)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, (32)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
1502 pts - 7 command (Battalion and Outrider)

The 10 Pathfinders would make two 5 man squads but shown this way for additional point values. Are these terrible lists. Without the devilfish i won't be able to rush forward to engage, so am i significantly better off the other way? i am trying to keep from buying new models at this point, so would like to avoid the firesight marksmen. Do i have enough markerlights though?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2201

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#5 » Nov 28 2017 11:41

turin02 wrote:Looks good, i guess. Hard for me to say having never player before. My first question should probably be is that a good list of items to buy trying to put together my first army. So adding a second getting started box, ghostkeel, stealth suits and devilfish?

In all honesty, I wouldn't get a Ghostkeel right now. For 1500 points it's okay, but to start a collection, I would stick to the tried-and-true stuff: Stealthsuits, Gun Drones, Devilfish, etc. For a "next purchase" this would be good:

- Commander (1)
- Devilfish (1)
- Stealthsuits (3)
- Pathfinders (10)

turin02 wrote:And to go along with that, am i trying to force the devilfish too much in a 1000pt game?

Not at all! The Devilfish is great in 1000-point games. Definitely use it.

turin02 wrote:I was just playing with numbers and came up with the below based upon what i have:

Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (44)
999pts - 5 command (Outrider and Vanguard)


Let's try this list with the Devilfish, and without the Ghostkeel. It would look like this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons & ATS, Homing Beacon (137)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (56)

Total: 983 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

To expand this to 1500 points, including a Ghostkeel, here's an idea:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons & ATS, Homing Beacon (137)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)

Total: 1494 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Of course these lists aren't "finished" (there are still a few points to be filled in each) but you get the idea. To build these, you would need:

1000-point list:
- Commander (1)
- Devilfish (1)
- Stealthsuits (3)
- Pathfinders (10)

1500-point list:
- Commander (1)
- Ghostkeel (1)
- Fire Warriors (10)
- +2 Pathfinders (eBay?)

What do you think?

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JancoBCN
Shas'Saal
Posts: 25

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#6 » Nov 29 2017 09:15

Hey, turin02!

Before geting deep, I just wanted to remind that when you wrote that list
turin02 wrote:[...]
I was just playing with numbers and came up with the below based upon what i have:

Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (110)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troop - 5x Strike Team w/ Pulse Rifle
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 2x Ion Rifles (44)
999pts - 5 command (Outrider and Vanguard)

[...]


The 6xPathfinders with 4x Markerlights and 2xIon Rifles do not cost 44p, but 56. 44p would cost 5 guys with one single Ion.
Just pointing that out in case you are using the total points reference in order to build and design new lists.


In any case, I really like your list. I have always played in 2000p and I tend to forget how many things you can play in a 1000p match.
I also agree with Arka regarding the Ghostkeel. I myself own 9000+ points of T'au and I don't have any. Also, T'au players do need the Codex, with updates and New stratagems, so I would say that now is a worse moment to invest in specific peculiar choices (Ghostkeel, Krootox riders, Skyray, ...), and specially for starting players. I would stick with Crisis, those are always a good investment because they can be configured with so many weapons (don't forget to magnetize them), and also can be played as commanders as well.

But, if you want to buy a Ghostkeel anyway, and you have to buy at least 1 commander and stealthsuits I have to recommend you the "Battleforce T’au Empire Rapid Insertion Force", from GW. This include:
-1 Ghostkeel ($70)
-1 Commander ($50)
-3xCrisis ($75)
-6xStealth ($54)

all for $170, from the $249 it would cost separately. Maybe you don't need 3 extra Stealth suits or the Crisis (until you get to 2k points), but you are buying $147 worth of needed units, and spending $23 to adquire some always useful extra units for when you want to get to the 2k.


A part from that economic section (no, I am not sponsored by GW), I have to add one thing that I think your lists (from both of you) are missing: Drone Controller. This should be a must have in an army where the 25% are focused on drones and their support. I think that at least a DC in your Stealthsuits team should be included, as it does not take a weapon slot.
Furthermore, I have that one of the Arka's lists equip these suits with ATS:
Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons & ATS, Homing Beacon (137)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)

Total: 1494 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)



Well, I am not a big fan of that. I have found those Xv25 to be an excellent unit, but never for their fire power, but for their resiliency, which helps a lot into dropping the beacon exactly where you need to be, even if you don't have first turn. They give a constant stream of fire (a mediocre one, but it's somenthing) while being in cover (Sv2+), and provide a solid DC carrier for the Drones coming from Manta strike.
8 points of support system per suit is almost +33% their cost, and you are only getting AP-1 for the 1-3 shots that will actually wound each torn. Not worth it, IMO. If somenthing, I would put Multitracker for 2p each instead.

But actually, I would drop the ATS (-16p), put the DC to the Fusion blaster guy (+5p), and that would make room (given that we were at 1494p before) for 2 more drones, Pathfinders, Fire warriors, or whatever you want <18points.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#7 » Nov 29 2017 09:33

JancoBCN wrote:I have to add one thing that I think your lists (from both of you) are missing: Drone Controller. This should be a must have in an army where the 25% are focused on drones and their support. I think that at least a DC in your Stealthsuits team should be included, as it does not take a weapon slot.

Absolutely- Stealthsuits are a good place to stick on that Drone Controller. Far better than Commanders, XV8s, or (god forbid) a Ghostkeel. Again, the wargear isn't set in this list, as the lists are unfinished.

JancoBCN wrote:Furthermore, I have that one of the Arka's lists equip these suits with ATS:
Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons & ATS, Homing Beacon (137)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)

Total: 1494 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)


Well, I am not a big fan of that. I have found those Xv25 to be an excellent unit, but never for their fire power, but for their resiliency, which helps a lot into dropping the beacon exactly where you need to be, even if you don't have first turn. They give a constant stream of fire (a mediocre one, but it's somenthing) while being in cover (Sv2+), and provide a solid DC carrier for the Drones coming from Manta strike.

You're right about the ATS- under ideal conditions, there are better options. However, it's clear that turin02 doesn't want to spend a ton of money on this list, and the armies we're writing up here already include lots of models beyond what they originally wanted to buy- most importantly, tons of Drones that may need to be sourced on eBay or wherever.

At any rate, here's the "ideal" list I would put together given the constraints:

-

Tau Empire: 1000 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (142)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Tau Empire: 1500 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (142)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1499 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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JancoBCN
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Posts: 25

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#8 » Nov 29 2017 11:41

Arka0415 wrote:[...]

At any rate, here's the "ideal" list I would put together given the constraints:

-

Tau Empire: 1000 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (142)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Tau Empire: 1500 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Troop - 6x Strike Team Fire Warriors w/ 6x Pulse Rifles, Markerlight (51)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (142)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1499 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?


Hey! I love those lists. They are versatile and they offer a big variety of threads, I like'em.

Focusing in a tiny detail of the second, though, I would like to discuss the convenience of Burst Cannons Vs. Flamers on the Ghostkeel. The thing is that i actually envy the heavy Flamer weapon from other factions, and when I see the chance of putting together flamers and ATS (w/o taking the slot of other weapons) I just cannot resist, specially if the bearer has BS4+.. I just love those 2D6 auto-hits vs those 8 shots at 4+. At the end of the day, it is a matter of:

Flamer
- Independent of BS (big deal for T'au)
- cheaper (although not by much)
- Similar # of shots (and auto-hits)
- Make the Overwatch an actual thread
- Not affected by those many "-1 to hit" modifiers that are around these days

Burst Cannon
- More range, which in some cases can be a huge deal (not just to get to shoot or not, but also to target what you actually want to shoot at)
- S5, can be huge agaist MEQ or Orks (although you are still getting more wounds with the Flamer)
- Badass weapon. I looks awesome on Crisis or Comanders, way more than the skinny flamer.

Then, regarding that aspect, could you give me some reasons to put BC? Also, if you know any other post of this forum that already discusses that, I would love to read it.

And, in a similar way, are there any posts about which loadout is better for the Xv8 suits? I have never used them with CIB, I also would love to read some opinions on that.


Thank you a lot! :biggrin:

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Arka0415
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Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#9 » Nov 29 2017 07:36

JancoBCN wrote:Focusing in a tiny detail of the second, though, I would like to discuss the convenience of Burst Cannons Vs. Flamers on the Ghostkeel. The thing is that i actually envy the heavy Flamer weapon from other factions, and when I see the chance of putting together flamers and ATS (w/o taking the slot of other weapons) I just cannot resist, specially if the bearer has BS4+.. I just love those 2D6 auto-hits vs those 8 shots at 4+. At the end of the day, it is a matter of:

Flamer
- Independent of BS (big deal for T'au)
- cheaper (although not by much)
- Similar # of shots (and auto-hits)
- Make the Overwatch an actual thread
- Not affected by those many "-1 to hit" modifiers that are around these days

Burst Cannon
- More range, which in some cases can be a huge deal (not just to get to shoot or not, but also to target what you actually want to shoot at)
- S5, can be huge agaist MEQ or Orks (although you are still getting more wounds with the Flamer)
- Badass weapon. I looks awesome on Crisis or Comanders, way more than the skinny flamer.

Then, regarding that aspect, could you give me some reasons to put BC? Also, if you know any other post of this forum that already discusses that, I would love to read it.

Flamers are better than Burst Cannons... if you are okay with getting up close. However, the Ghostkeel's whole shtick is not doing that. If you're in range to use the flamers, the Ghostkeel can be targeted much more easily as it loses its stealth bonus. Burst Cannons allow it to stay at 18" and skirmish, with a much lower likelihood that it will lose that stealth bonus.

JancoBCN wrote:And, in a similar way, are there any posts about which loadout is better for the Xv8 suits? I have never used them with CIB, I also would love to read some opinions on that.

These are the four good loadouts for XV8s:

1. Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
2. Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (255)
3. Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (326)
4. Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)

#1 is a versatile anti-everything skirmishing kit that can deal massive damage to heavy infantry and light tanks. #2 is the classic anti-infantry/overwatch build. #3 is a stopgap build if you don't have Fusion Commanders. #4 is a dedicated anti-MEQ build... it's not amazing but it gets the job done. #1 and #2 are very, very good; #3 and #4 are only so-so.

I'll link some of the old threads once I have time to search for them.

turin02
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#10 » Nov 29 2017 09:34

Wow,thanks guys. There was a lot here to go through and I will probably have to read it a few more times. So my buddy and I have been talking about playing a lot, but current life situations have gotten in the way. We are set to play a 500pt game on Dec 15, which will be the first time I actually play the game.

Like I said I bought a getting started box and a cadre fireblade as my first two purchases, bought magnets and just got a bunch of CIB and FB from shapeways. I am going to try may hand at magnetizing and painting. I was then using the post i referenced as a purchasing guide, so I knew a lot had changed, and seen a lot of lists using the devilfish and drones and i could picture how well that would work. I also watch a lot of battle reports on youtube but they don't use optimized lists, and it seems that without the codex they play a lot of units that were better in 7th, like riptides and broadsides.

So, I was looking to spend about $250 for Christmas to get my army to a higher point value, and didn't think the commanders were worth it at $50, when i could use the XV8s in an additional getting started box. So i had already purchase a ghostkeel, 2nd getting started, devilfish, pathfinders, and stealth suits when i learned about the new battleforce box. If it is better, i can return the ghostkeel, getting started, and stealthsuits and buy that box, but i think i will then be light on extra drones. May have to go to ebay and pickup a few that i would be light on. Let me know if yall think that is a better path. For the ghostkeel, I really like it because it is the most affordable larger model, and my 7 year old saw it and really wanted to get it for me. He thinks 40K is the coolest and wants his own army.

Once again I appreciate all the feedback and I am not trying to ignore your advice, just have some constraints on $$$ for right now. I really need to play more, and for the first time, before i sink much more money into it. Thanks again.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#11 » Nov 30 2017 01:23

turin02 wrote:So, I was looking to spend about $250 for Christmas to get my army to a higher point value, and didn't think the commanders were worth it at $50, when i could use the XV8s in an additional getting started box. So i had already purchase a ghostkeel, 2nd getting started, devilfish, pathfinders, and stealth suits when i learned about the new battleforce box. If it is better, i can return the ghostkeel, getting started, and stealthsuits and buy that box

Do that. Don't return the Devilfush and Pathfinders of course, but that box will be a great thing to have. You'll be able to make a very powerful battlesuit-themed list too. If I understand correctly, you'll have the following sets:

Getting Started
Cadre Fireblade
Devilfish
Pathfinders
Rapid Insertion Cadre

That will mean you'll have the following models:

1x Commander
1x Cadre Fireblade
1x Ethereal
10x Fire Warriors
1x Devilfish
6x XV8s
6x Stealthsuits
1x Ghostkeel
2x Stealth Drones
10x Pathfinders
24x Drones

Here are two great lists you can make with just those models:

-

Tau Empire: 1000 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster (101)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1001 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Tau Empire: 1500 points

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (255)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, Homing Beacon (121)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster (101)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Fusion Collider, 2x Fusion Blasters, Target Lock, Stimulant Injector; 2x Stealth Drones (205)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1501 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Now, note that you have Fire Warriors, but I'm not including them. This is because Fire Warriors are only worth it if you can bring Battalions, and you don't have enough Fire Warriors to do that. Otherwise though, this will be a tough list. What do you think?

Also, it wouldn't be hard to make this into a 2000-point list if you buy another Commander, another Fireblade, 8 Fire Warriors (for a total of 18), and 2 Pathfinders (for a total of 12)!

turin02
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#12 » Nov 30 2017 12:53

Ok, my plan is to return and buy the new big box.

Arka, I don't see a Drone Controller in the list, and with 19 gun drones in the 1000pt list woudn't that needed on the stealth suits. i will have to look at the books when i get home, but i am sure yall know if that would impact points and what to change.

Oh, and thanks for all the responses and help. I hope to post more helpful responses after I play.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 442

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#13 » Nov 30 2017 01:47

I'd drop the fusions on the stealths in my opinion and get more drones plus the DC. but that's just me.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#14 » Dec 05 2017 07:01

turin02 wrote:Arka, I don't see a Drone Controller in the list, and with 19 gun drones in the 1000pt list woudn't that needed on the stealth suits. i will have to look at the books when i get home, but i am sure yall know if that would impact points and what to change.

You can certainly add a Drone Controller if you like! It slipped my mind when I wrote those lists but it's a fantastic option, especially in your 1500-point list. When you use the Stealthsuits to drop in the Flamer XV8s, the Gun Drones will be buffed too. Good stuff.

Not totally sure what to drop to add the Drone Controller though. You could drop a Fusion Blaster from one Stealthsuit squad, and add Drone Controllers to both squads.

turin02
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: New Player Need List Help

Post#15 » Dec 17 2017 11:18

I was finally able to get my first one and a half games in. I enjoyed playing which is the most important part, but i only had the first starter kit and used the ethereal for a cadre fireblade that i have yet to assemble. I come from the board game world, and while i love miniatures, i hate the assembly that comes with 40K. But back to the game.

We ended up playing power level, which i think gives me a bit of an advantage due to all the kit options that comes with tau. I ended up with 23PL if i did my calculations correctly. While the game was fun, i think it will be a lot more fun when we have more models. We played on 4x4 setting, with classic deployment, one on each side, 12 inches in the middle, with hill terrain i made. Objective was to just kill each other and score power level of destroyed units, twist was no morale checks. I thought these were all great options for our first game.

Without giving a full battle report, i learned a few lessons. I split my fire warriors into 5 man squads because i was worried about morale checks which we didn't have. I also placed them too far away from each other, overestimating what 6" really looks like. So one group was in the fight the other was not until round 2 or three. Second lesson was Space Marines' saves were able to shrug all damage from my fire warriors, i think i dealt one damage to a model the whole game with them and the droids. My third lesson, is I complete forgot what i had read on XV8s and did a manta strike right at 10". I also did it on the far side of the table and could not benefit from markerlights until round 4. I was bailed out by their fly keyword when they were charged, but they ultimately won me the game when i started overcharging the CIB. I took out whole units in round 4 and 5. I need stay at 18" with them and keep moving and destroying.

If you made it through all of that, my question is around PL. My buddy stated he wants to play PL games due to the ease of calculating. I think this plays into Tau, but maybe not. He is super busy right now and has 6 kids under 7, so even though I told him points would be better, it will be PL games for right now. So given that change, what are the optimal builds for figures i have since i no longer have to worry about points? Can i get to 75PL?

Edit: Added for more focused questions. Are you better off with MP vs CIB on XV8 in a PL game? What does a optomized Ghostkeel look like? Same for Stealth Drones. Are you better off dropping markerlights for more shooting? While overcharging would be more risky, it seems like Pathfinders with a bunch of rail rifles would be worth it.

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