First Cadre List

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Shas'la Cali Nate
Shas
Posts: 6

First Cadre List

Post#1 » Dec 04 2017 09:26

I'm a first time player of War games at all and thus failed utterly in proper prior planning, everything on this list is bought, built, and painted. But I'd like some input on the composition of my army, refinement of my initial strategy, and a suggestion of what to do with my leftover points, because my first game is coming up and I'm nervous.

I mainly build just for the pleasure of building but my goal is to put up a decent showing (read as: not get tabled) against my friend who plays Space Marines (and he has multiple chapters, and has been playing for over a decade so trying to predict which chapter I'm going to fight is an exercise in futility). I'll list my basic strategy under the list itself.

I have used 2,301 / 2,500 points available to our agreed upon match

Battalion Detatchment

CQ - 206 Points
Cadre Fireblade (42 Points)
Coldstar Commander Suit (164 Points)

TROOPS - 296 Points
Strike Team 1 (5x additional Warriors, DS8 Tactical Support Turret, 2 MV36 Guardian Drones) - 116 points
Strike Team 2 (5x additional Warriors, DS8 Tactical Support Turret) - 110 Points
Breacher Team (5x additional Warriors) - 80 Points

ELITES - 354 Points
XV25 Stealth Suits (3 suits, 3 Burst Cannons, 3 homing beacon, Shas'vre, 3 target lock) - 137 Points
Crisis Suits (3 suits, 3 burst cannons, 1 flamer, 4 plasma rifles, 1 shield generator) - 217 Points

FAST ATTACK - 388 Points
Pathfinders 1 - (5x Additional Pathfinders, 7 markerlights, MB3 Recon Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, 3 Rail Rifles) - 165 Points
Pathfinders 2 - (5x Additional Pathfinders, 7 markerlights, MB3 Recon Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, MV7 Marker Drone, Ion Rifle, 2 Rail Rifles) - 152 Points
TX4 Piranha - (Burst Cannon, gun drones) - 71 Points

HEAVY SUPPORT - 479 Points
XV88 Broadside 1 - (Heavy Rail Rifle, MV4 Shield Drone, MV8 Missile Drone, Seeker Missile, Shield Generator, Smart Missile System) - 224 Points
XV88 Broadside 2 - (High Yield Missile Pods, 2 MV8 Missile Drone, Seeker Missile, Shield Generator, Smart Missile System) - 255

DEDICATED TRANSPORT - 117 Points
TY7 Devilfish - (Gun Drones, Burst Cannon) - 117 Points


Supreme Command Detachment - 461 Points

HQ - 461 Points
Commander Farsight - 151 Points
Commander Suit 1 - (Flamer, MV1 gun Drone, Plasma Rifle, Stimulant Injector, Target Lock) - 123 Points
Commander Suit 2 - (2 Fusion Blasters, Target Lock, Heavy Rail Rifle) - 187 Points

My basic strategy is to set up a two lines of Strike Teams (just outside an inch from each other) supported by the Cadre Fireblade, Broadsides, and crisis suits. This is my main fire line.
I'd run the Devilfish (supported by my Pirana) straight up and unload the Breacher Team near (but just inside) the limit of my firing line. They're sacrificial to hold attention and hopefully tie down a melee group for a turn or two. Meanwhile the Pathfinders advance between the Strike and Breacher teams to light up targets with their marker lights and (and take the odd shot with rail guns).
Farsight will either assist this effort (if it looks like it has a chance), or he will be used as a last line of melee to protect the firing line
My stealth team is mainly there to provide an objective grabber and potential beacon if I want to Manta strike commanders instead of deploying them normally (also a friend gave me the models for free). The Commander suits are to be used as a flexible group of reserves, for opportunistic strikes, and general support.

I recognize that my weakness here is probably that I have too varied a range of units (and I'm expecting to be told my commander with the Heavy rail rifle is silly, but gosh if I didn't love building and painting it) and thus that deep striking assault Marines, and psykers are going to rip me a structurally superfluous new one.

I'm inclined to with my just under two hundred points remaining, purchase a new HQ choice and break off part of the Battalion detachment into a Outrider detachment, but I'm not hard over on it. Especially if I might be better served by building up the firing power of the Firing line or going for another Piranha.

So I believe that my strategy supports my objective of not being tabled (and trying my darndest to win) by being built around an advancing front of my breachers, pathfinders, vehicles, and commanders, supported by the firing line.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: First Cadre List

Post#2 » Dec 04 2017 11:19

Hi Shas'la Cali Nate! Welcome to Warhammer 40k!

I don't have a lot of time now, but let me quickly write a few notes about this list. I'm glad you put this list together, but there are lots of issues not just with tactical viability, but also with the game rules too. This might sound a bit negative, but I'm in a rush and I want to make sure you get the right information!

First of all, many of the units here are (sorry!) incorrectly costed or downright illegal. For example, a Devilfish costs 127 points (not 117), and Commanders cannot be equipped with Heavy Rail Rifles (so that unit is illegal). Those two units stand out to me, but I'm sure there are many others with incorrect costs or illegal loadouts too.

Second, of you're trying to not get tabled, a lot needs to change I think. Both Commanders need different wargear to be even remotely viable, same goes with the XV8s, Stealthsuits, Broadsides, and Fire Warriors. All in all you can probably drop over 300-400 points of unnecessary wargear.

Finally, what other models do you own? Looking at the list as-is, I recommend you play some starter games at 1000 points before going larger.

I'll write more later, for now, I bet other people will have input too.

Tau'va!

- Arka0415

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Shas'la Cali Nate
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: First Cadre List

Post#3 » Dec 05 2017 01:29

Thanks for the welcome and the quick glance-over review (and the speed at which you did so)!

For the incorrect costing I'll blame my battlescribe app since I was posting what it was telling me the point value for things is (minus the HRR Commander who is the only one I added up myself). As might be guessed I'm not very experienced at list building and should probably learn to build it without relying on an app (especially now that I know it's wrong there, I don't know what else might be wrong!)


Onto my illegal loadouts: I'd like to understand why it's illegal to put the Heavy Rail Rifle on him. As I understood from my index I may place up to 4 items from the Ranged Weapons or Support Systems lists. After looking at the Ranged Weapons List I noticed that the Heavy Rail Rifle is listed there. Are some items (like this particular gun) limited to only being usable by specific units despite being listed under the ranged weapons? Where would I find a list of these weapons so I can avoid similar mistakes in future?

I'd like someone to take a look at my Crisis Suits in particular because while I think that loadout is legal, I'm not sure. I do expect it to be inefficient however.

As for what models do I have... I have what's listed in my OP and maybe the material to make one or two more drones.

I'm open to redoing loadouts in the interest of efficiency and legality and even purchasing a few new model sets, but I lack many veterans reserves of bits and kits.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: First Cadre List

Post#4 » Dec 05 2017 09:21

Warning: Long post incoming!

Let me answer your immediate questions first!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:For the incorrect costing I'll blame my battlescribe app since I was posting what it was telling me the point value for things is (minus the HRR Commander who is the only one I added up myself). As might be guessed I'm not very experienced at list building and should probably learn to build it without relying on an app (especially now that I know it's wrong there, I don't know what else might be wrong!)

Fair enough- you should notice in my list that some points costs look different, so just keep those in mind!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Onto my illegal loadouts: I'd like to understand why it's illegal to put the Heavy Rail Rifle on him. As I understood from my index I may place up to 4 items from the Ranged Weapons or Support Systems lists. After looking at the Ranged Weapons List I noticed that the Heavy Rail Rifle is listed there. Are some items (like this particular gun) limited to only being usable by specific units despite being listed under the ranged weapons? Where would I find a list of these weapons so I can avoid similar mistakes in future?

I totally get your misunderstanding- almost all of us, myself included, made that mistake when the Index first came out. However, on page 49 of the Index, there's a section specifically called "Ranged Weapons and Support Systems" that identifies the handful of weapons and wargear items that battlesuits are allowed to take. The list you used was the appendix at the back of the book; again the actual list is at the very front of the Tau section. Also, if you could take any item in the appendix, wouldn't you just want to give your Commander four 0-point Supremacy Railguns? :D (I'm kidding)

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:I'd like someone to take a look at my Crisis Suits in particular because while I think that loadout is legal, I'm not sure. I do expect it to be inefficient however.

Don't worry, the XV8s are legal! By and large though, XV8s have short ranges, so it's best to give each model an identical loadout and engage one target at a time. That gives you the best tactical efficiency and makes unit placement much simpler. Also remember to always give your XV8s Gun Drones- the longer the XV8s survive the more damage they can deal! The good XV8 loadouts are as follows:

- 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (All-purpose build for heavy infantry and light vehicles)
- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (Short-ranged specialist build that can burn through infantry)
- 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (Good anti-tank build if you don't have Commanders)
- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (Niche build that's good at killing Space Marines and nothing else)

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:I'm open to redoing loadouts in the interest of efficiency and legality and even purchasing a few new model sets, but I lack many veterans reserves of bits and kits.

Sounds good! I'll explain a little about each of the units in your collection, then re-write your list with that information in mind! Here goes:





Unit Roles & Loadouts:

Commanders:
The single best unit in our Index, the Commander is an absolute terror on the battlefield. With near-perfect accuracy and four different weapons, it can destroy whole units and appear anywhere on the battlefield using Manta Strike. Commanders offer a ton of firepower, so always be sure to take three or four weapons- put that BS2+ to work! The two best loadouts are as follows:

- Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (A very powerful specialist anti-tank build)
- Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (General build for heavy infantry and light vehicles)

Coldstar Commanders:
Coldstars are our fastest units, and they're still very accurate. However, their weapons can't be changed, so they're stuck in the anti-infantry role. Coldstars make great flankers and are good at grabbing objectives too. Don't be afraid to charge enemy vehicles- the Coldstar won't do any damage in combat but it can stop a vehicle from shooting for a turn! Be careful with that trick of course. There's one good loadout for Coldstars:

- Coldstar Commander w/ High-Output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (Standard build)

Cadre Fireblades;
Fireblades are simple buff units. Use them to increase the firepower of your Fire Warriors and Gun Drones. They work well in foot gunlines, or even better in Devilfish! Remember to use their Markerlight most of the time, as it hits on 2+, or 3+ if the Fireblade moves. Fireblades have no loadout options.

Fire Warriors:
Our standard Line Infantry, Fire Warriors are sadly outclassed by Gun Drones for anti-infantry firepower. Use them to hold objectives in your "backfield" and use their 30" range to pepper enemy infantry. If the enemy gets close, move forward and rapid-fire. Fire Warriors generally work well in teams of 5 or 6 models. Take 3 squads per army for the Battalion Detachment bonus! Fire Warriors can take many options, like Drones and Support Turrets, but there are largely inefficient. Here are some good Fire Warrior builds:

- 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (The standard minimum-sized squad)
- 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (Slightly larger, and my preferred size)
- 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (Use only if you have morale-buffing units, like Ethereals, available)

Breachers:
Breachers are pretty straightforward- they get as close as possible to the enemy, usually within 5" of their targets, and then unleash very powerful weapons. This means, though, that they're vulnerable as they move up the field. They work best in Devilfish. Put two squads of 5 or 6 models in a Devilfish and you're good to go. Like Fire Warriors, they can take various options, but these are largely not good ideas. Markerlights are also not recommended. Use the following builds:

- 5x Breachers (Put two of this in a Devilfish if you only have 10 Breacher models)
- 6x Breachers (The more efficient way to mechanize Breachers, but you need 12 Breacher models)

Devilfish:
It's a transport! There isn't much more to say about the humble Devilfish, but it's our only transport. It can carry 12 models, and most people tend to embark Gun Drones (11 Gun Drones and 1 Cadre Fireblade) or Breachers (two squads of 5 or 6 Breachers). Zoom forward, unload your units, and fire away- Devilfish are great ways to make your infantry faster and more durable. Don't add Smart Missile Systems, as they're expensive and get -1 to hit when the Devilfish moves. Here are the two good loadouts:

- Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (A minimalist transport build)
- Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (Use if you really like Seeker Missiles)

XV8s:
The most iconic Tau unit. Armed with powerful, short-ranged guns, XV8s can drop in anywhere on the battlefield and cause heavy damage to their targets. Always take them with Gun Drones to increase their firepower and durability. They tend to work best as specialists. Again, here are the good XV8 builds:

- 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (All-purpose build for heavy infantry and light vehicles)
- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (Short-ranged specialist build that can burn through infantry)
- 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (Good anti-tank build if you don't have Commanders)
- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (Niche build that's good at killing Space Marines and nothing else)

Stealthsuits:
These are harder to kill than you might think, but also offer less firepower. Stealthsuits are the smaller, sneakier counterparts to XV8s, and are more niche in their usefulness. The main function of Stealthsuits is to infiltrate near the enemy and, on turn 1, drop a Homing Beacon that allows a Commander or XV8 squad to drop in close to an enemy unit. This allows Flamer XV8s to deal damage on the turn they arrive (normally they're out-of-range the turn they use Manta Strike), and allows Fusion Blaster-wielding Commanders to deal extra damage by dropping close to enemies. There are a few good Stealthsuit builds:

- 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (Minimalist squad for Homing Beacon deployment)
- 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (Extra anti-tank firepower)

Pathfinders:
Our premier Markerlight unit, Pathfinders offer decent accuracy and a huge number of Markerlights for a low points cost. They aren't durable though, so keep them in cover. Pathfinders can also take specialist weapons like Ion Rifles and Rail Rifles, which are both fantastic, although good at different things. Pathfinders can take some unique drones too, but these are very niche and aren't recommended unless you're bringing a ton of Pathfinders. Here are some good Pathfinder builds:

- 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (A simple Markerlight build)
- 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (A cheap way to get extra anti-light vehicle firepower)
- 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (An expensive unit that can destroy multi-wound models)

Gun Drones
The other fantastic unit in the Tau army. Gun Drones offer speed, durability, and punishing firepower on a cheap chassis. Avoid taking pairs of them, but otherwise take them wherever you can, and as many as you can. They're so good that some people run lists with 90+ Gun Drones. They also synergize well with Cadre Fireblades, and can embark in Devilfish. One popular trick is to put 11 Gun Drones and 1 Fireblade in a Devilfish for fast anti-infantry firepower. Gun Drones have no options, but it's best to use them in squads of 4-6 models due to their low Morale characteristic.

Piranhas:
Piranhas are one of the weaker options in our Index- they're expensive and flimsy, and only offer about 3 Gun Drones worth of firepower. However, they're very fast and can operate as quick flanking units; they're also good at taking objectives. In general, avoid Seeker Missiles and Fusion Blasters on these, they're already expensive enough as-is. Here's the best build for Piranhas:

- Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (Fast, reliable, anti-infantry firepower)

Broadsides:
Another iconic Tau unit, Broadsides are infamous in 8th Edition for being way too expensive. Seriously, they'll do 2-3 wounds on a target per turn and they cost 200+ points. Yikes, that's not good. Broadsides are simply too expensive to be viable in this edition; if you take them, take a minimalist build to keep points as low as possible:

- Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Smart Missile Systems, Target Lock (A simple long-range build)





So, those are your units! Hopefully that all makes sense. With that in mind, here's a more fine-tuned way to build your army, with the units you have available:

-

HQ - Farsight (151)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Troops - 5x Breachers (40)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (137)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (255)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (105)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (105)
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (71)
Heavy Support - Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Smart Missile Systems, Target Lock; 2x Shield Drones (204)

Total: 1999 - Command Points: 10 (2 Battalion Detachments, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

By tossing in a couple more Shield Drones on top of the units I suggested above, we can easily make a nice 2000-point list! If you want to go to 2500 points, you'll need to add a lot more units. If I were you, stick to 2000 points for now.

Anyway, what do you think?

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Shas'la Cali Nate
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: First Cadre List

Post#5 » Dec 05 2017 11:24

Thank you for giving me the rundown on all my units. Especially in the detail you've gone to! It must've taken a while to write so I appreciate the time you're putting into making my list sane!

D'oh now that I see that list I feel a bit silly :biggrin: (And I didn't take the supremacy rail gun because I didn't have a spare one anywhere).
And of course my two favorite models Broadsides and Piranha's aren't going to form the back-bone of my army. Oh well, they were still fun to build even if they aren't the most powerful.

In terms of points my friend has agreed to match what I choose to play (since he's played for a while he wants to make my first game more friendly and he has enough marines for armageddon matches, it's not a worry about him having enough points)

I noticed that all the firewarriors in the suggested list have markerlights. When I was building them I didn't see anything that looked like the markerlights that I see on the pathfinders and fireblade. Is it an assumed/built in function of their rifles? or do I need to go dip into my bits for them?
Speaking of marker lights, I've looked at the table and those bonuses sound lovely. I assume the marker lights go onto higher value targets (named models, something proving to be extra dangerous, etc.) What's the general strategy for mixing them into my usual guns? One unit fires markers while another unit shoots? or half-n-half by unit? I'm not going to ignore them, but I'm scared of over-using them and not having enough shots to actually kill things.

Onto the strategy!


So the Stealth suits move up and help me drop in my XV8's near the enemy infantry. The XV8's then light up the flamers and try to deal with the infantry. Potentially supported by Farsight.
The breachers are loaded into the fish which advances to drop them at an objective (or in the way to protect an objective as I move someone else there to claim it)
The Coldstar and Piranha move to also clear infantry with their burst cannons. (The Fish too, if it's done dropping breachers)
Pathfinders (without railguns) and Fire Warriors move for objectives with the Fireblade sticking close to buff up the rate of fire when in need. The vehicles can also drop their drones to protect objectives.
Pathfinders with rail guns going hunting for high value targets
And finally the broadside provides something that looks scary and sits back to lay down some fire.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: First Cadre List

Post#6 » Dec 06 2017 04:16

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Thank you for giving me the rundown on all my units. Especially in the detail you've gone to! It must've taken a while to write so I appreciate the time you're putting into making my list sane!

You're welcome! Let me try and answer some of your questions first before we get to the strategy part of things:

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:And of course my two favorite models Broadsides and Piranha's aren't going to form the back-bone of my army. Oh well, they were still fun to build even if they aren't the most powerful.

I absolutely sympathize. I have three Broadsides (the old metal ones!) and they're wonderful models, I love them. It pains me to say that they're not good right now. However, I really hope that the our soon-to-be-released new Codex makes things right again! Do note that Piranhas are decent, only Broadsides are downright bad. Piranhas can still get good work done if they can hit flimsy, valuable infantry units, like Eldar and Imperial Guard.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:In terms of points my friend has agreed to match what I choose to play (since he's played for a while he wants to make my first game more friendly and he has enough marines for armageddon matches, it's not a worry about him having enough points)

Sounds good! I'd recommend playing the game at 2000 points, or even smaller if you're crunched for time. 2000 points will feel like a large pitched battle, quite the tactical challenge with lots of moving parts!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:I noticed that all the firewarriors in the suggested list have markerlights. When I was building them I didn't see anything that looked like the markerlights that I see on the pathfinders and fireblade. Is it an assumed/built in function of their rifles? or do I need to go dip into my bits for them?

Sorry for being a little unclear- each Fire Warrior squad is carrying one Markerlight, which the Shas'ui (squad leader) is equipped with. The Markerlight bit is available in the Fire Warriors boxed set, and looks just like the one in the Pathfinders boxed set. It looks like an oblong, double-barreled flashlight and is mounted on top of the gun, right in front of the scope. Here's what the part looks like:
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/ekmps ... 9345-p.jpg

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Speaking of marker lights, I've looked at the table and those bonuses sound lovely.

The bonuses are good, especally #1 and #5. #1 brings our accuracy from 50% to 58.3%, while #5 boosts it to a whopping 77.8%! Bonus #2 is good only if you have Seeker Missiles, and #3 and #4 are largely situational but underwhelming. The trick is to get 1 Markerlight hit on each target you intend to shoot at, and 5 Markerlight hits on "the one" target you really need to bring down. If you spend the time and effort to get 5 Markerlights on a target, you better pump a lot of firepower into it and get the most "bang for your buck" so to speak.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:I assume the marker lights go onto higher value targets (named models, something proving to be extra dangerous, etc.) What's the general strategy for mixing them into my usual guns? One unit fires markers while another unit shoots? or half-n-half by unit? I'm not going to ignore them, but I'm scared of over-using them and not having enough shots to actually kill things.

You have the right idea. Remember that your Fire Warrior squads have 5 Pulse Rifles and 1 Pulse Rifle/Markerlight. Always fire all-Markerlight units (such as Pathfinders) first, then mixed-Markerlight units (such as Fire Warriors) second. So, for example, first fire your all-Markerlight squads at targets. Go for 5 hits on one big target, and don't be afraid to use the "Uplinked Markerlight" stratagem every turn- it's wonderful. Once you've fired all of your all-Markerlight units, then fire the mixed-Markerlight units. Your goal is to fire all of your Markerlights first, then shoot the important guns (Fusion Blasters, HRRs, etc.) once the Markerlight hits are resolved.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:So the Stealth suits move up and help me drop in my XV8's near the enemy infantry. The XV8's then light up the flamers and try to deal with the infantry. Potentially supported by Farsight.

Exactly. XV8s go in Manta Strike Reserve, and Stealthsuits go on the table, near the enemy (but not too close) and preferably in cover. On your Turn 1, the Stealthsuits move toward enemy infantry (a priority target, not something weak) and drop their Homing Beacon. Then the XV8s drop down within 8" of the enemy (using the Beacon) and roast them, 9 Flamers will deal a horrendous amount of damage on all but the most armored of targets. Drop in Farsight just behind these XV8s, so that he can make a "Heroic Intervention" attack if the XV8s are assaulted! Assuming these units survive the enemy's next turn, continue charging around the battlefield torching infantry and hacking away with Farsight!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:The breachers are loaded into the fish which advances to drop them at an objective (or in the way to protect an objective as I move someone else there to claim it)

Fire Warriors (Strike Teams) are your objective-capturing guys. Breachers, with their absurd 5" range, are shock infantry. Think special forces with shotguns. The Devilfish should go barreling into enemy formations, the Breachers jump out and wreck enemy armored infantry at point-blank range. Don't expect the Breachers to survive, but if they do it's a nice bonus. Breachers are the "action heroes" of the Tau army- send them to where the fighting is thickest. Breachers prefer to hit heavy, single-wound infantry such as Space Marines, Necron Warriors, and Sisters of Battle.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:The Coldstar and Piranha move to also clear infantry with their burst cannons.

Yup! These are fast flanking units. Remember that the Coldstar can fire its High-Output Burst Cannon into one target, and its Missile Pod into another. The Coldstar should attack nearby enemy infantry while using the more flexible Missile Pod to chip away at vehicles, or to "execute" near-death units.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Pathfinders (without railguns) and Fire Warriors move for objectives with the Fireblade sticking close to buff up the rate of fire when in need. The vehicles can also drop their drones to protect objectives.

Pathfinders and Fire Warriors have very different roles- while Pathfinders may have a high Move characteristic, you really don't want them to move at all. If they move they get -1 to hit with their Markerlights. Pathfinders should nestle into cover, preferably in dense forests or atop tall buildings, hopefully in places where they can go unnoticed and unmolested. Shoot with Markerlights every turn, marking high-value targets and letting your powerful weapons (Fusion Blasters, HRRs, etc.) do the heavy lifting. Fire Warriors, on the other hand, should hang with the Fireblade, making a nice neat gunline, preferably on an objective, as the "anchor" point of your army. If the enemy gets within 21" of the Fire Warriors, move towards them and use the Fireblade's "Volley Fire" ability to triple the Fire Warriors' shot output!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Pathfinders with rail guns going hunting for high value targets

Unlike Markerlight Pathfinders, Rail Rifle Pathfinders want to move. Get these guys into cover further forward- your goal is to use their Rail Rifles' Rapid-Fire ability to fire two shots each. Focus not on vehicles or monsters, but on multi-wound infantry- Rail Rifles can crush Primaris Marines, Terminators, Bikers, and other multi-wound elite units. Pathfinders aren't durable at all, so move quickly. Note that Rail Rifles aren't great at killing vehicles, but they can hurt them in a pinch.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:And finally the broadside provides something that looks scary and sits back to lay down some fire.

Yup! Use the Smart Missile System to kill infantry at range, while the Heavy Rail Rifle hits vehicles. Damage vehicles first with your short-range weapons (namely Fusion Blasters), and if anything survives with 3-4 wounds left use the Broadside to knock it out.

-

Does that all make sense? If you're still not clear on Markerlights and target priority I can explain those in more detail.

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Shas'la Cali Nate
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: First Cadre List

Post#7 » Dec 06 2017 05:50

You've made perfect sense and wonderfully patient! (Minus my initial mis-reading of the index, but that's on me not you!)

My only worry, given this setup is that I seem not to have enough of various load-out guns! I'll list what I can do given the suggested loadouts you've offered for suits, and my materials. (Is there a kit that's just guns?! Seems like it'd be helpful)
(If the numbers on them seem weird it's because my stealth suits and XV8 squad were gifted to me pre assembled)

I have
3x Flamers
4x Fusion Blasters
9x Plasma Rifles
4x Cyclic Ion Blasters
8x Burst Cannons

Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (130)

3 XV8 3x Flamers, 6x plasma rifles (Since I lack enough flamers should I instead hunt marines with plasma rifles or try to mix it a little so it's not as niche?)

3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (I'm thinking of tossing on an additional markerlight since I have free points from my commander going to cyclic ion)

Maybe I should buy another XV8 team for parts...

Also is there definite news on when our codex is coming? I've been expecting it to coincide with the Farsight novel personally, but that's just me hoping and guessing!


Thank you again for the time you've put into helping me out, now to re-assemble, paint, and hopefully report victory (defined here as not being tabled) on on the 21st!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: First Cadre List

Post#8 » Dec 06 2017 06:23

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:My only worry, given this setup is that I seem not to have enough of various load-out guns! I'll list what I can do given the suggested loadouts you've offered for suits, and my materials. (Is there a kit that's just guns?! Seems like it'd be helpful)

Yup, this is the problem faced by most new Tau players! Once you've been playing for a decade or so you'll have more Fusion Blasters to shake a stick at, but for now you're probably a little short on parts! In that case, eBay is your friend! Games Workshop doesn't actually sell a "just the guns" kit (I guess to sell more XV8s) but you can probably get the pieces on eBay or on online bits retailers for very cheap.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (130)

A Cyclic Ion Blaster Commander with Drones is 154 points, did Battlescribe tell you 130? Maybe you forgot to add the ATS and Shield Drones in Battlescribe?

Also, are you switching to 1 Fusion Commander 1 CIB Commander?

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:3 XV8 3x Flamers, 6x plasma rifles (Since I lack enough flamers should I instead hunt marines with plasma rifles or try to mix it a little so it's not as niche?)

Definitely pick up some Flamers on eBay and get a Flamer build going. Plasma Rifles are borderline useless in 8th Edition, sadly.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon (I'm thinking of tossing on an additional markerlight since I have free points from my commander going to cyclic ion)

You can't add a Fusion Blaster to the squad? Are the weapons glued on? Also I wouldn't bother with the Markerlight, since the Stealthsuit can't shoot both the Markerlight and the Burst Cannon.

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Also is there definite news on when our codex is coming? I've been expecting it to coincide with the Farsight novel personally, but that's just me hoping and guessing!!

Reliable sources seem to be saying March, but there's been no news from Games Workshop yet on the issue.





If I have this right, you're dropping one Fusion Commander, and one Fusion Blaster from the Stealthsuits? I would think twice before doing that. Your list is already heavily-skewed against anti-tank firepower, and dropping almost a further 50% of that firepower is going to hurt. Can you not change the loadouts on your models?

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Shas'la Cali Nate
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: First Cadre List

Post#9 » Dec 06 2017 07:21

I'm brainstorming based on my current amount of guns. Which I begin to get pounded into my head, is not going to actually be very useful...

I lack enough fusion blasters and flamers for my suits so I'm trying to find acceptable builds with my current stock while I wait for the spare cash and bits to come in.

(The wrong points is adding up the commander's guns but forgetting drones and support system, no battlescribe since it's lost my trust)

Yes all my guns are glued on, but that doesn't mean I can't change them, it just makes it take a little longer. I'm not really confident with the magnetic attachment systems so I use a dab of glue that isn't as difficult to remove. That's why I'm trying to hash out here before messing up my list more.

I think I shall take your suggested list as is and build more experience before I start experimenting as wildly.

So I guess the new plan is to go on eBay and hunt up fusion blasters and flamers. Then switch out the loadouts etc.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: First Cadre List

Post#10 » Dec 06 2017 07:29

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:Yes all my guns are glued on, but that doesn't mean I can't change them, it just makes it take a little longer. I'm not really confident with the magnetic attachment systems so I use a dab of glue that isn't as difficult to remove. That's why I'm trying to hash out here before messing up my list more.

As you're a new player, remember there's no problem in "proxying" your weapons as other weapons. Play some test games with the new gear, try it out, and if you like it start hunting on eBay!

Shas'la Cali Nate wrote:So I guess the new plan is to go on eBay and hunt up fusion blasters and flamers. Then switch out the loadouts etc.

Definitely the right pieces to get!





And by the way, magnetizing models isn't hard at all! I've been playing Tau basically since they came out, and I only just this year started magnetizing my models. It's absolutely wonderful, I'm annoyed at myself for not doing it sooner! It's easy, all you need is a hand drill and some patience, and there are loads of guides online on how to do it!

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