2k last chance list

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Blood Seriph
Shas
Posts: 3

2k last chance list

Post#1 » Dec 18 2017 06:13

First post on a forum since 5th and looking for some input.

Some context,
During 7th edition I won 10/12 tournaments at my local small gaming store using pure tau lists, Ranging from crisis heavy lists to piranha wings even got a riptide wing for the last tournament.

However 8th has not been so kind, I have used several different lists and have not been able to even come close to being in the top 3 (out of 8-10 participants).

The shop I go to does not follow all of the itc rules mainly because FW rules are not allowed in tournament play there. End context.



I came up with a possible list but would like some feedback, this list uses most of the Tau's few tactical advantages in one list.

2k last chance [1998/2000pts]

Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [430pts]

Hq: commander+pr+pr+pr+case (114)
Hq: commander+fb+fb+fb+Mt+sd+sd (157)
Hq: commander+fb+fb+fb+Mt+sd+sd (157)

Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [ 785pts] x2

Hq: Fireblade (42)

Elite: riptide+hbc+sms+ats+DC (317)

Fast: pathfinder+pad (48)
Fast: drone squad+gun (32)
Fast: drone squad+gun (32)
Fast: drone squad+gun (32)
Fast: drone squad+gun (32)
Fast: drone squad+gun (32)

Heavy: broadside+hymp+sms+ats+SD (218)



It's a fairly bland list meant to take advantage of what few tricks we have left (and what I own)
The only change I'm considering at the moment is removing both missile-sides and bringing in 4 units of stealth suits for early objective grabbing and distraction. The list is meant to take advantage of the sheer amount of shots coming out of each outrider detachment and taking out at least 2 complete units per turn regardless of size or resiliance. The command detachment is meant to take on threats in the back lines or other heavy threats.

I will be testing the list within the week but the next tournament won't be until January.

Any suggestions are appreciated just keep in mind I cannot use FW models or rules.

Thank you.

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K'Pokk
Shas'Saal
Posts: 76

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#2 » Dec 18 2017 07:33

Looks good to me, except that based on my own experience I'd drop the riptide and broadside. They provide long range hitting power for sure, but in the battles I've played they don't seem to pay their way for the points they cost.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2751

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#3 » Dec 18 2017 08:05

K'Pokk wrote:Looks good to me, except that based on my own experience I'd drop the riptide and broadside. They provide long range hitting power for sure, but in the battles I've played they don't seem to pay their way for the points they cost.

Exactly. The Commanders are good (try 4x Fusion Blasters or 3x CIBs + ATS though!) and the Drones are good, but the Riptides and Broadside just aren't effective. If you want to win tournaments, they need to go. I assume you have lots of models (seeing as you mentioned Piranha wings and Crisis-heavy lists) so let me offer some open-ended advice.

First let's re-arm the commanders, and add a few more just for good measure.

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Marker Drones (176)

There's 858 points, almost half your list in just Commanders. The Missile Pod Commander does have the exact same cost as the Fusion Blaster Commander, just quirk of the list, not a typo. Anyway, now let's add some Pathfinders. You won't need many Markerlights in this list, since your firepower is mostly Commanders, so let's bring several MSU special weapons teams.

Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)

For Gun Drones, I'm going to suggest mechanizing some of them. Let's bring two mechanized squads, and a bunch of regular Gun Drones too. Here's what the mechanized squads will look like:

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

It should be clear how to use that- put one Fireblade and eleven Gun Drones in each 'fish and go hurtling toward your enemy. Now, let's add some normal Gun Drones too.

Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Now, we need some forward units to carry drone controllers- Stealthsuits will be ideal. Let's bring two squads. We'll give them both Homing Beacons- you can't use both in the same turn, but they'll be important for redundancy.

Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (128)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (128)

Here's everything:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Marker Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (128)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (128)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Total: 1998 - Command Points: 8 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 4 Outrider Detachments)

-

That's the same style as your original list, but hopefully a bit more competitive. What do you think?

Blood Seriph
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#4 » Dec 19 2017 06:00

I like the idea of your list but with a few modifications.

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [crisis kit bash]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [crisis kit bash]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [crisis kit bash]
HQ - Coldstar w/HBC, MP, ATS, SG; (150) [actual commander suit]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (172) [4th edition commander kit bash]

The Coldstar change is for commander hunting and board management.
I used to love marker Drones in 7th, but with the BS and drone link nerfs, they are not worth taking, so defense was boosted. This resulted in a 30pts refund.

(The commander changes are mainly because the models I own are fairly old and I was pretty broke for half the year. So I wanted them to be fairly defined In their assignments to avoid some complaining from my opponents)

Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)

Since I have the models and 4 outriders, I decided to add a forth team just to amp damage and add a couple more ML.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones, 1x smart missile (132)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Both fish units were left alone, added a smart missile because a had points leftover but couldn't get another drone.

Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Again these units were left alone as well

Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)

The fusion Blasters at average hitting power and the beacon are (in my eyes) wastes of points in the shadow of the fusion commanders. Since the commanders are the only thing DS'ing I see no need to dish out that many points for a lot of redundancy that may never get used.
Gave multi trackers to make them somewhat autonomous, and some Gun Drones for added firepower and protection.

So recap: (changes in bold)

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar w/HBC, MP, ATS, SG; (150)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (172)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones, 1x smart missile(132)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Total: 1999- Command Points: 8 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 4 Outrider Detachments)

I will be trying out both lists hopefully these will do far better than past games.

Any other suggestions or thoughts are and will be appreciated.

User avatar
K'Pokk
Shas'Saal
Posts: 76

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#5 » Dec 19 2017 06:44

No offence guys and I know all this commander spam is effective but on a commonsense/fluff level makes me laugh - all these tau commanders bickering over who is actually in command :P

Where are the crisis suits?
Just highlights the problems with what we have to work with at the moment

Blood Seriph
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#6 » Dec 19 2017 11:37

K'Pokk wrote:No offence guys and I know all this commander spam is effective but on a commonsense/fluff level makes me laugh - all these tau commanders bickering over who is actually in command :P


Non taken, I too greatly dislike the way we have to play now. But something I think people forget is match play does not in any way mimic real war or fluff based army structure. If fluff is life, then stick to open or narrative play.

Match play is a mechanic meant to rule out fluff based resource advantages and test a commanders skill and luck by condensing all stats equipment and abilities into a universal resource; points.

Regardless it is not too difficult to think of a fluff based reason for such a list if needs be.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2751

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#7 » Dec 19 2017 08:05

Blood Seriph wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar w/HBC, MP, ATS, SG; (150)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (172)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones, 1x smart missile(132)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, 2x multi trackers, 2x Gun drones(115)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Total: 1999- Command Points: 8 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 4 Outrider Detachments)

I like this quite a bit- it's a very solid list. The four Multi-Trackers and single Seeker Missile, combined with the list being 1999 points, do represent 14 points you could spend somewhere else. It might sound nit-picky but you could give each Devilfish a Seeker Missile (+10) and give the Missile Pod Commander back his Marker Drones (+4) for a fractional improvement.

Blood Seriph wrote:
K'Pokk wrote:No offence guys and I know all this commander spam is effective but on a commonsense/fluff level makes me laugh - all these tau commanders bickering over who is actually in command :P


Non taken, I too greatly dislike the way we have to play now. But something I think people forget is match play does not in any way mimic real war or fluff based army structure. If fluff is life, then stick to open or narrative play.

Match play is a mechanic meant to rule out fluff based resource advantages and test a commanders skill and luck by condensing all stats equipment and abilities into a universal resource; points.

Regardless it is not too difficult to think of a fluff based reason for such a list if needs be.

K'Pokk, you're right- from a fluff perspective this is totally absurd. However, it's also absurd that Mortarion shows up at every Death Guard border skirmish and Guilliman tags along with every Ultramarines successor chapter. Fluff is out the window right now, if you want to win games, take Commanders. Plus, with so many Commanders, it shouldn't be too hard to imagine that they are all XV8s, and that the real leader of this force is the Coldstar or something like that.

User avatar
K'Pokk
Shas'Saal
Posts: 76

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#8 » Dec 20 2017 06:49

Arka0415 wrote: it's also absurd that Mortarion shows up at every Death Guard border skirmish and Guilliman tags along with every Ultramarines successor chapter.


People could always have house rules to the effect that Personalities are only allowed in Apocalypse games. Makes sense to me. Yet tourney's often (still) disallow anything from FW. Don't see the distinction.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2751

Re: 2k last chance list

Post#9 » Dec 20 2017 06:55

K'Pokk wrote:
Arka0415 wrote: it's also absurd that Mortarion shows up at every Death Guard border skirmish and Guilliman tags along with every Ultramarines successor chapter.


People could always have house rules to the effect that Personalities are only allowed in Apocalypse games. Makes sense to me. Yet tourney's often (still) disallow anything from FW. Don't see the distinction.

I just mean that most competitive lists are not fluffy. If you tried to field a bunch of Tactical Marines, some Rhinos, and a Captain, you'd get absolutely stomped. Likewise, if a Tau player fields an army of mechanized Fire Warriors backed up by a couple of Fireknife XV8s, they would likewise lose every tournament they enter. At the current stage of the game, when designing a competitive list, you just can't think about the fluff. It makes me sad to admit that, but this is Matched Play. :sad:

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