Local escalation league

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Local escalation league

Post#1 » Dec 20 2017 09:53

Hello all, I'm playing in a local escalation league and doing well so far. We're at the 800 point level next and I'd like some feedback.

The rules are that you must bring any units from a lower point game to the next one, but you're free to change the size and equipment of them. You're also limited in your Force-org to 1-3 troops, 0-1 Elite, 0-1 heavy and 0-1 fast attack and 1 flex slot that could be from any of those 4. Toughness is capped at 8, combined wounds and toughness capped at 12, except for dedicated transports, that's capped at 17. No named characters. This week they're opening up the HQ slot, and raising the combined cap to 14.

My current list is:

Strike team x6 Pulse riffles X2
Pathfinder 3 markerlights, 2 Ion X1
Crisis suits x3 2 flamers & 1 cib + 4 gun, 2 shield drones X1
Stealth suits 2ATS, 1 drone controller & 1 fusion + beacon X1

601 points ( allowed at this event)

I tabled an ork player with it, so I'm pretty happy with the function so far. I don't know who I'm playing, but I know it will be kill points next. My reflex is to add my Coldstar, as he's always done work, but since it's KP, I thought maybe adding the Fireblade and buffing up the squads would be a better investment.

So option A

Cadre FIreblade
Strike team x9 Pulse riffles X2
Pathfinder 4 markerlights, 2 Ion X1
Crisis suits x3 2 flamers & 1 cib, 1 2 flame r& drone controller + 6 gun, 2 shield drones X1
Stealth suits 2ATS, 2 without support systems & 1 fusion + beacon X1

802 points ( allowed in this event)

This is to either castle up and use the Fireblade to make a 15" kill zone with ablative wounds from the drones and the suits as charge deterrents, or the way I went against the orks, rush the stealth forward, drop the beacon and enjoy a mushroom BBQ in the back field. I'm leaning this way because I enjoy the ability to use the synergy our army seems to thrive one

Or option B
Coldstar ATS& shield
Strike team x8 Pulse riffles + marker light X1
Strike team x8 Pulse riffles x1
Pathfinder 3 markerlights, 2 Ion X1
Crisis suits x3 2 flamers & 1 cib + 4 gun, 2 shield drones X1
Stealth suits 1ATS, 3 without support systems & 1 fusion + beacon X1
800 points even

Same basic idea, but the Coldstar can be pretty much anywhere on this 48X48 board.

The castle is much less destructive and without the Fireblade the drones are free to run with the suits more freely without losing efficacy. There are more wounds in the Fireblade list, but they're squishier wounds than the Coldstar. The close range shots are also 1/3 less, but the ones the commander brings are more likely to hit. The dual flamer w/2 drones is about as durable as the Coldstar against low AP weapons, but the shield gen can make all the difference against heavy weapons. ARGH, choices!!

So thoughts, elite direction or horde direction? I'm also locked into which HQ I bring for the next week, which will be capture the relic, which only infantry keywords can pick up, a character screened by my whole army could make all the difference there.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: Local escalation league

Post#2 » Dec 20 2017 12:02

Personally, I would go with the Fireblade option. Seeing as you know what's coming up next week, the Fireblade would be a great option to grab the Relic and still be screened by your forces. A Coldstar suit, while much faster, wouldn't be able to grab it if you say it's only Infantry that can.

Do you know what army you'll be facing this week and next week?
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#3 » Dec 20 2017 12:22

Ghostly Daemon wrote:Personally, I would go with the Fireblade option. Seeing as you know what's coming up next week, the Fireblade would be a great option to grab the Relic and still be screened by your forces. A Coldstar suit, while much faster, wouldn't be able to grab it if you say it's only Infantry that can.

Do you know what army you'll be facing this week and next week?



Yes, I think planing for the long game the fireblade will help more.

No idea, we don't play the same opponent twice, but there's still 2 death guard, a white scars, Eldar, black legion, imperial guard, tyranids and orks still as possibilities.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2802

Re: Local escalation league

Post#4 » Dec 20 2017 09:39

So it's 800 points, 1 HQ, 1-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Fast Attack, 0-1 Heavy Support, and one wild card? We can work with that.

I'm not sure what models you have in your collection, but I wouldn't bother with a Fireblade. Use Fire Warriors as a backfield unit and have the bulk of your army be battlesuits. Two Fire Warrior squads are probably uneccessary but you can't change those, right? Try a standard Commander with XV8 and Stealthsuit support. Here's a possible list, if you like the 2x Flamer + 1x CIB build:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Elites - XV8s w/ 6x Flamers, 3x CIBs; 6x Gun Drones (291)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Gun Drones (172)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 809 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#5 » Dec 21 2017 11:48

Arka0415 wrote:So it's 800 points, 1 HQ, 1-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Fast Attack, 0-1 Heavy Support, and one wild card? We can work with that.

I'm not sure what models you have in your collection, but I wouldn't bother with a Fireblade. Use Fire Warriors as a backfield unit and have the bulk of your army be battlesuits. Two Fire Warrior squads are probably uneccessary but you can't change those, right? Try a standard Commander with XV8 and Stealthsuit support. Here's a possible list, if you like the 2x Flamer + 1x CIB build:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Elites - XV8s w/ 6x Flamers, 3x CIBs; 6x Gun Drones (291)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Gun Drones (172)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 809 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

What do you think?



Do you think the fusion commander will have much to do at this level? So far the vast majority of folk are running horde type lists with a squad of heavy infantry. The only vehicle I've seen was a chimera, that could change with the increased toughness this turn of course. That's why I was thinking the coldstar for light tank but still anti infantry. Since it's kill points only ( 1 per unit destroyed) I don't think I want to bring any little units of drones, they're just potential extra points. I'm stuck at the 2 squads of FW due to last game being territory control and needing more units.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 493

Re: Local escalation league

Post#6 » Dec 21 2017 01:59

Draco023 wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:So it's 800 points, 1 HQ, 1-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Fast Attack, 0-1 Heavy Support, and one wild card? We can work with that.

I'm not sure what models you have in your collection, but I wouldn't bother with a Fireblade. Use Fire Warriors as a backfield unit and have the bulk of your army be battlesuits. Two Fire Warrior squads are probably uneccessary but you can't change those, right? Try a standard Commander with XV8 and Stealthsuit support. Here's a possible list, if you like the 2x Flamer + 1x CIB build:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Elites - XV8s w/ 6x Flamers, 3x CIBs; 6x Gun Drones (291)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Gun Drones (172)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 809 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

What do you think?



Do you think the fusion commander will have much to do at this level? So far the vast majority of folk are running horde type lists with a squad of heavy infantry. The only vehicle I've seen was a chimera, that could change with the increased toughness this turn of course. That's why I was thinking the coldstar for light tank but still anti infantry. Since it's kill points only ( 1 per unit destroyed) I don't think I want to bring any little units of drones, they're just potential extra points. I'm stuck at the 2 squads of FW due to last game being territory control and needing more units.


Definitely roll with 3xCIB/ATS commander behind the flamer cib xv8's. You can deepstrike the flamer suits but just have him parked behind near the drones as well but obviously outside the 9" drop zone.

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#7 » Dec 21 2017 02:39

Yojimbob wrote:
Draco023 wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:So it's 800 points, 1 HQ, 1-3 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 Fast Attack, 0-1 Heavy Support, and one wild card? We can work with that.

I'm not sure what models you have in your collection, but I wouldn't bother with a Fireblade. Use Fire Warriors as a backfield unit and have the bulk of your army be battlesuits. Two Fire Warrior squads are probably uneccessary but you can't change those, right? Try a standard Commander with XV8 and Stealthsuit support. Here's a possible list, if you like the 2x Flamer + 1x CIB build:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Elites - XV8s w/ 6x Flamers, 3x CIBs; 6x Gun Drones (291)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon; 2x Gun Drones (172)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 809 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

What do you think?



Do you think the fusion commander will have much to do at this level? So far the vast majority of folk are running horde type lists with a squad of heavy infantry. The only vehicle I've seen was a chimera, that could change with the increased toughness this turn of course. That's why I was thinking the coldstar for light tank but still anti infantry. Since it's kill points only ( 1 per unit destroyed) I don't think I want to bring any little units of drones, they're just potential extra points. I'm stuck at the 2 squads of FW due to last game being territory control and needing more units.


Definitely roll with 3xCIB/ATS commander behind the flamer cib xv8's. You can deepstrike the flamer suits but just have him parked behind near the drones as well but obviously outside the 9" drop zone.



Oof, yeah, that would certainly make a hash of most things.


1 commander w/ 3 cib + ats
8 Firewariors x2
3 stealth w/ ats, 1 w/ drone controller, 1 w/ fusion and a rookie without anything + beacon'
3 Crisis w 2 flamers & 1 cib each, 4 gun drones and 2 shield
3 markerlight pathfinders and 2 w/ Ion rifles

801 points.

Then next week I can add a devilfish of breachers to get the relic ( they have to be on foot after and breachers can still shoot while the sprint away) with the stealth acting as surprise ball carries once they're toast after dropping flamers at the beacon.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 493

Re: Local escalation league

Post#8 » Dec 21 2017 02:52

Draco023 wrote:Then next week I can add a devilfish of breachers to get the relic ( they have to be on foot after and breachers can still shoot while the sprint away) with the stealth acting as surprise ball carries once they're toast after dropping flamers at the beacon.


If you plan on having them do that, make sure you split into two squads so you can retreat with one and screen with the other. Or go with Vespid as they are ultra fast infantry that can pick up the relic.

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#9 » Dec 21 2017 03:09

Yojimbob wrote:
Draco023 wrote:Then next week I can add a devilfish of breachers to get the relic ( they have to be on foot after and breachers can still shoot while the sprint away) with the stealth acting as surprise ball carries once they're toast after dropping flamers at the beacon.


If you plan on having them do that, make sure you split into two squads so you can retreat with one and screen with the other. Or go with Vespid as they are ultra fast infantry that can pick up the relic.



Oh, hadn't considered vespids! Sadly I don't have another fast attack slot open, all I can add is another troop and a transport. Have to put in a small striker team to sit there and block while the breachers run.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 493

Re: Local escalation league

Post#10 » Dec 21 2017 03:35

Draco023 wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Draco023 wrote:Then next week I can add a devilfish of breachers to get the relic ( they have to be on foot after and breachers can still shoot while the sprint away) with the stealth acting as surprise ball carries once they're toast after dropping flamers at the beacon.


If you plan on having them do that, make sure you split into two squads so you can retreat with one and screen with the other. Or go with Vespid as they are ultra fast infantry that can pick up the relic.



Oh, hadn't considered vespids! Sadly I don't have another fast attack slot open, all I can add is another troop and a transport. Have to put in a small striker team to sit there and block while the breachers run.

Those force org restrictions are heinous. Really need a second wildcard at 1000 with how little you are allowed to take because of the restrictions. This is not a Tau friendly format as we can't use our troops for anything resembling competitive play.

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#11 » Dec 21 2017 03:48

Yojimbob wrote:
Draco023 wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
If you plan on having them do that, make sure you split into two squads so you can retreat with one and screen with the other. Or go with Vespid as they are ultra fast infantry that can pick up the relic.



Oh, hadn't considered vespids! Sadly I don't have another fast attack slot open, all I can add is another troop and a transport. Have to put in a small striker team to sit there and block while the breachers run.

Those force org restrictions are heinous. Really need a second wildcard at 1000 with how little you are allowed to take because of the restrictions. This is not a Tau friendly format as we can't use our troops for anything resembling competitive play.


Lol, no need to convince me! The HQ and increased transport toughness at the higher levels were a concession as well, it was just the base restrictions the whole way up origionally!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2802

Re: Local escalation league

Post#12 » Dec 21 2017 06:24

Yojimbob wrote:Those force org restrictions are heinous. Really need a second wildcard at 1000 with how little you are allowed to take because of the restrictions. This is not a Tau friendly format as we can't use our troops for anything resembling competitive play.

If the list could be started again from scratch, I could see Breacher teams in Devilfish being useful, as our only good offensive Troops option.

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Draco023
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Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#13 » Dec 21 2017 11:56

Arka0415 wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:Those force org restrictions are heinous. Really need a second wildcard at 1000 with how little you are allowed to take because of the restrictions. This is not a Tau friendly format as we can't use our troops for anything resembling competitive play.

If the list could be started again from scratch, I could see Breacher teams in Devilfish being useful, as our only good offensive Troops option.


I love a fish of breachers in other games, but the devilfish was too tough ( ha!) for the first two rounds. I think I'm bringing it for the final level of 1000 though. 200 points is just enough, and maxes out my slots. I wanted the range of the pulse rifle at the lower levels, but breachers are rapidly becoming my go to troops.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2802

Re: Local escalation league

Post#14 » Dec 22 2017 01:08

Draco023 wrote:I wanted the range of the pulse rifle at the lower levels, but breachers are rapidly becoming my go to troops.

Breachers are highly-relevant at short ranges but worthless at long range, whereas normal Fire Warriors stay tactically viable (though not totally efficient) at multiple ranges. Outside of Devilfish-mounted units I prefer Fire Warriors, but if you want mechanized infantry then Breachers are the way to go.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Local escalation league

Post#15 » Dec 22 2017 06:03

ehh.. maybe something I missed but why not using the stealths to grab the relic?

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Draco023
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Posts: 94

Re: Local escalation league

Post#16 » Dec 22 2017 08:15

StealthKnightSteg wrote:ehh.. maybe something I missed but why not using the stealths to grab the relic?

Oh I absolutely am! Most of the people I play against forget they're infantry, if they do then they're a perfect second half counter carrier. Who ever carries the relic first is going to die, that's a given. If I get it first and they ignore the stealth team for 2 turns that leaves them more or less free to get into a good position to help take out their carrier then grab it on turn 3-4. I'm using them as a kind of beta strike. They're super tough, but not tough enough to go 5 turns of focused fire from a whole army.

If they get the relic first then they'll be part of the hunter squad to take out their carrier, then of course they'll pick it up.

The game is capped at 5 turns and who ever has the relic wins at that point, no matter where on the board they are.

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