Archetypal Static/Agressive 2000pt. List

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
gunrock
Shas
Posts: 60

Re: Archetypal Static/Agressive 2000pt. List

Post#37 » Jan 11 2018 07:55

Arka0415 wrote:
gunrock wrote:Hey guys! Really enjoying the dialogue. In particular the 'empty' opening tau lists are really intriguing to me. The whole discussion has also been on my thoughts when thinking about commanders lists, flamers, CIB, markerlight independence and a range of other topics.

Not sure how long you've been playing 40k but from previous editions this is known as a "null deployment", and was really, really effective. We can basically pull off the same thing, which is fantastic- Drones and Fire Warriors cowering on the ground while the enemy's big guns are useless, then the vast majority of the points of the army (though only 50% of the units) come thundering down for an alpha strike. At least from my point of view it's the way to play Tau now in 8th Edition.

gunrock wrote:Speaking of lists primarily composed of Commanders, Y'Vahra and drones, I've been tinkering with how to best build 'empty' list.

As far as null lists goes it looks great. If the enemy gets firs turn though that Y'vahra is going to be taking a lot of heat, especially if they have deep-strikers. A few more screening drones might be useful. Otherwise though, any list that just spams Commanders and a Y'vahra is going to do well, that's pretty clear already :D

gunrock wrote:I know the whole Idea was one of the starting premises of this thread. I'm really interested to hear people's thoughts on these types of builds and explore different variations, but I feel like it deserves it's own thread, with a dedicated primer. I wrote down some of my thoughts, but I'm not really an expert. If anyone is interested in collaborating on a primer or maybe looking over a draft I'm super open to that, all for the greater good!

The other Academy article writers and I have all basically decided to wait until the Codex comes out before we write anything. It's not really worth the effort right now since things will change soon. If you want to join that team, feel free! I'll be contacting interested users once the Codex is released.

Null deployment lists (or, because of the 50% rule, practically-null deployment lists) are going to do well in 8th Edition. My list (in my signature) is technically a mixed-gunline list, but with 1100+ points (and all the real value) deep-striking it's effectively null deployment. Getting Markerlights into reserve, though, is much trickier.


Ah, I'm definitely not an expert and my experiences prior to 8th edition with tau are pretty limited. What attracted to tau was definitely this dynamic, which seemed like a central feature of FSE style organization and armies 7th. I'd heard others reffer to it as a 'null' deployment, but I wasn't sure if this was a colloquialism or a commonly accepted term. I do think the term seems slightly fuzzy in that so many tau armies use at least a partial version of this tactic, but it's not strictly considered an archetype in it's own right. Like commander spam, 'deep strike heavy', both seem to encapsulate this approach at least partially. In previous editions just calling something a retaliation cadre seems like almost the same thing. I see your point, your list definitely appears like a mixed-gunline, but is really primarily focused on deep striking.

I hear you on the codex. I'm definitely just twiddling my thumbs until then. I heard from a very reliable source that it's coming out in march! :P I'm just gonna apply some ork logic there.

The markerlight thing has definitely been on my mind, and you can work around it. Originally, I thought multi-tracker might be an answer, but the math just doesn't ever seem to work. Obviously, you can intelligently build marker drones and DC into your list, but the more I rack my brain on it the more I suspect sometimes you can compensate just by adding more guns and achieve similar results.

Watcher on the wall wrote:
HQ: Coldstar, Shield Gen, Drone Controller: 147
HQ: QFC, 2 Shield Drones 176
HQ: QFC, 2 Shield Drones 176
HQ: QFC, 2 Shield Drones 176
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
FA: 4 Shield Drones 32
E: 3x XV8s, 8 CIB, DC, 6x Gun Drones 323
E: 3x XV8s, 8 CIB, DC, 6x Gun Drones 323
E: XV9, 2x DBBCs, ATS, 4x Gun Drones 133
E: XV9, 2x DBBCs, ATS, 4x Gun Drones 133
E: Firesight Marksman 24
E: Firesight Marksman 24
Total: 1827

The drones and marksmen start on the ground, everything else manta strikes.
I've left it unfinished because it has several options now and I'm not sure where to take it. It's main flaw is markerlights, which you can fix by:
-3x XV8s, 8 CIB, DC, 6x Gun Drones -323
+3x XV8s, 8 CIB, DC, 6x Marker Drones +335
- Adding more firesight marksmen (at least 2 more, then use the spare points to add some vespids?)
- Adding some pathfinders (but they will most likely get slaughtered turn 1)
And I think it could do with a Y'vraha to round out the list - this would most likely involve dropping the hazards or a commander and a hazard.
Any thoughts?


The firesight marksman! I recall a thread suggesting you could do some funky stuff taking advantage of thier character rule to field a super cheap warlord for deepstrike lists, but people seemed skeptical of the value of this tactic. I don't own any of them, but I think they're kinda intriguing as a ultra-cheap slot filler/durable markerlight. I like the hugely disproportionate weighting towards deep strike!

CDR_Farsight wrote:
Take a look at my "Shadow of the Manta" list. It is practically null deployment. Shadowsun and some stealth suits with about 1450 pts dropping in from Manta Strike.


I hadn't given shadowsun much thought, but I'll check it out!
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

User avatar
CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 223

Re: Archetypal Static/Agressive 2000pt. List

Post#38 » Jan 11 2018 08:02

gunrock wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:
Take a look at my "Shadow of the Manta" list. It is practically null deployment. Shadowsun and some stealth suits with about 1450 pts dropping in from Manta Strike.


I hadn't given shadowsun much thought, but I'll check it out!


I change the suit loadouts around and even switch between XV8 and XV9 depending on the meta. I don't really do tournaments anymore. They were toxic in 7th.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2801

Re: Archetypal Static/Agressive 2000pt. List

Post#39 » Jan 11 2018 08:41

gunrock wrote:I'd heard others reffer to it as a 'null' deployment, but I wasn't sure if this was a colloquialism or a commonly accepted term. I do think the term seems slightly fuzzy in that so many tau armies use at least a partial version of this tactic, but it's not strictly considered an archetype in it's own right.

True "null deployment" means having nothing on the board, which was a totally broken trick back in earlier editions. Now, the 50% rule allows us to stick half the army in deep strike reserve, but not half the points. Technically you could have 1900 points of battlesuits in reserve, and some Kroot Hounds on the battlefield, and you essentially have a true "null" deployment. Right now though I'm more in favor of a partial null deployment though.

Return to “Cadre Building”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests