First Tournament - 2v2

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steelmanf
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Posts: 43

First Tournament - 2v2

Post#1 » Dec 29 2017 11:27

Greetings, all!

I am still relatively new to WH40K (at least as far as tabletop goes), and I have my first tournament coming up. It is a 2v2 team tournament using Maelstrom of War missions (I believe), and I am playing with my friend who also is mostly the only other person I play against most of the time. Our options in this area are relatively limited. We can each bring one detachment of 1000 points, but not the same detachment. TBH, not sure where to start.

I have available in my collection (all suits are likely to be magnetized before the tourney, so weapons are fluid; models, not so much):
1x Commander
2x Ethereal
1x Cadre Fireblade
6x Crisis Suits
1x Ghostkeel
3x Stealthsuits
29x FW with Pulse Rifles
10x Breachers
10x Pathfinders
1x Droneport
1x Hammerhead
1x Sunshark Bomber
all included associated drones


So here is my first stab at a list:
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [52 PL, 1001pts] ++
+ HQ +
Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [7 PL, 158pts]: Homing beacon, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system: 2x Advanced targeting system, 2x Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'vre: Drone controller, Fusion blaster
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 306pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 259pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Flamer

+ Troops +
Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle
Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

++ Total: [52 PL, 1001pts] ++


The idea is to provide some extra anti-armor to complement his forces. At this point level, too many Markerlights won't do me much good especially since he can't benefit from them, and the big boys like the bomber and Ghostkeel cost too much.

So here goes my theory:
    -I've included just enough hidden Markerlights to get me re-rolls on a couple different enemies.
    -Flamersuits (horde control, obviously) and Stealths tag team, possibly hooking up with CIB suits.
    -Strike teams sit in back for support and to sit on objectives.
    -Designed mostly to allow for Manta Strike opportunities.

My friend is thinking of bringing a Battalion detachment of Thousand Suns (though he also has access to Dark Eldar), listed here for completeness sake:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [57 PL, 999pts] ++
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher
Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 85pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher

+ Troops +
Rubric Marines [14 PL, 231pts]: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Warpflame pistol
. 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun
. Rubric Marine w/ Soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon
Rubric Marines [14 PL, 231pts]: Icon of Flame
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Warpflame pistol
. 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun
. Rubric Marine w/ Soulreaper cannon: Soulreaper cannon
Tzaangors [4 PL, 80pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 9x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor Blades
. Twistbray: Tzaangor blades

+ HQ +
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [10 PL, 166pts]: Prescience, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Weaver of Fates
Exalted Sorcerer [7 PL, 121pts]: Force stave, Gift of Chaos, Infernal Gaze, Inferno Bolt Pistol

++ Total: [57 PL, 999pts] ++


Please, let me know what you think! I'd been lurking these boards for awhile now so I figured it was time to finally jump in. I already appreciated everything I've read so far and find it refreshing to discover an online community that's not innately toxic.

Thanks in advance!

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steelmanf
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Posts: 43

Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#2 » Jan 02 2018 09:41

I have considered also picking up a Devilfish to get some use out of those Breachers. That -2 AP sure is sweet.

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#3 » Jan 02 2018 10:28

Honestly this looks perfect but for one thing- give the CIB XV8s the two Marker Drones and let the Flamer XV8s take the six Gun Drones- that loadout better compliments their abilities.

Otherwise, assuming you only have one Commander, this list looks fantastic. By the way, what other models do you have in your collection?

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steelmanf
Shas'Saal
Posts: 43

Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#4 » Jan 03 2018 12:37

steelmanf wrote:
I have available in my collection (all suits are likely to be magnetized before the tourney, so weapons are fluid; models, not so much):
1x Commander
2x Ethereal
1x Cadre Fireblade
6x Crisis Suits
1x Ghostkeel
3x Stealthsuits
29x FW with Pulse Rifles
10x Breachers
10x Pathfinders
1x Droneport
1x Hammerhead
1x Sunshark Bomber
all included associated drones




There are plans to expand, but nothing I can accomplish before the tournament. I also just ordered some 3D printed CIBs today, since between everything I've bought, I have only 1. Weird that GW would provide so few of a weapon that so many of us swear by.

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#5 » Jan 03 2018 01:43

steelmanf wrote:There are plans to expand, but nothing I can accomplish before the tournament. I also just ordered some 3D printed CIBs today, since between everything I've bought, I have only 1. Weird that GW would provide so few of a weapon that so many of us swear by.

Sorry for missing your model list. With that in mind, I'd say the 1x Commander and 6x XV8 list is very viable. The 2x ATS on the Stealthsuits might be unnecessary, but I really don't see anywhere that 16 points could be better spent.

The one thing that ocurred to me is that, if you're sure you're fighting Thousand Sons (or any elite army) the Sun Shark is a very good choice. Mortal wound absolutely ruin Rubric Marines. If you wanted to include a Sun Shark Bomber, you could consider a list like this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (139)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ 2x Missile Pods, Markerlight, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 999 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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steelmanf
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#6 » Jan 03 2018 09:54

Arka0415 wrote:The one thing that ocurred to me is that, if you're sure you're fighting Thousand Sons (or any elite army) the Sun Shark is a very good choice. Mortal wound absolutely ruin Rubric Marines. If you wanted to include a Sun Shark Bomber, you could consider a list like this:


My fault for not being more specific, but my friend with the Thousand Suns is on my team in 2v2. I know, what are the odds Chaos and Tau would work together? Well, Tzeentch is a tricky one, and has clouded the minds of my warriors with illusions. If only an Ethereal were attached to this detachment, he would surely lift the fog over my warriors' eyes so they could see the truth...

Ahem...*fluff*...ahem

Anyway...

Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster & Multi-Tracker, 2x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (139)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ 2x Missile Pods, Markerlight, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 999 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

What do you think?


I do like this list. I was considering something similar early on. I have only one game with the Sunshark under my belt, but I agree that Rubrik Marines suddenly seem a lot less tenacious. So knowing that I'm actually fighting with Thousand Suns, what are your thoughts on my list vs. yours in regards to a 2v2 tournament?

Thanks for your help!

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#7 » Jan 03 2018 10:19

steelmanf wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:The one thing that ocurred to me is that, if you're sure you're fighting Thousand Sons (or any elite army) the Sun Shark is a very good choice. Mortal wound absolutely ruin Rubric Marines. If you wanted to include a Sun Shark Bomber, you could consider a list like this:


My fault for not being more specific, but my friend with the Thousand Suns is on my team in 2v2. I know, what are the odds Chaos and Tau would work together? Well, Tzeentch is a tricky one, and has clouded the minds of my warriors with illusions. If only an Ethereal were attached to this detachment, he would surely lift the fog over my warriors' eyes so they could see the truth...

You were totally specific- I've been busy today and really haven't been reading as closely as I should. Sorry about that! With Thousand Sons on your side you have access to a ton of anti-infantry firepower, which is great! However, your allied list has almost no anti-vehicle/monster firepower, which means that responsibility is all on you. With that in mind, you probably don't need a full battalion, but the Commander, XV8s, and Sun Shark will all do great. Here's an idea for a more dedicated anti-elite counterpart list to use alongside your TSons "ally":

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller (106)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 4 (1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

The Stealthsuits feel like they lack a bit of utility, but I don't think a Homing Beacon is necessary with this arrangement. Anyway, what do you think?

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steelmanf
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Posts: 43

Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#8 » Jan 03 2018 01:18

A few thoughts, a couple random asides, but not really criticisms more than concerns.

    1. Looking at the CSM's psychic powers, and adding in the Sunshark's bombs, that would certainly make us a heavy mortal wounds list (too heavy?)
      Question: I personally never want to use the Sunshark without the 2nd missile pod. I know it's expensive, but if I have to jettison the drones to cover an emergency objective, then I just have a single hard-to-hit missile pod/bombs floating around, which might wind up just being ignored (for better or worse). Thoughts?

    2. I worry that dedicating an entire unit to markerlights, even only 5-man, might be overkill, especially given that half our list won't benefit, and to knock out ALL markerlight support (not counting Sunshark) they just need to wipe a few pathfinders.

    3. The FW in my first list are meant to hold backfield objectives, while the Rubriks run off and assault things up close via Rhino. With only Pathfinders, I don't think they'd hold out very long.

    4. You're right that Stealth Suits may not be necessary anymore, except to give me Vanguard +1 CP. So here is an experimental list I just shuffled around a bit to give me even more punch, keep the troops, but downgrade to a Patrol detachment:

+ Flyer +
AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 191pts]: Markerlight, 2x Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ HQ +
Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [27 PL, 513pts]: 10x MV1 Gun Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: Drone controller, 2x Flamer/2x Fusion Blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster

+ Troops +
Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle
Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

++ Total: [110 PL, 958pts/982pts] ++



With those leftover points I could theoretically shuffle in a couple more MLs or FWs or something. Could be fun? Or am I just crazy? Or both? I like both...

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#9 » Jan 03 2018 08:56

steelmanf wrote:Looking at the CSM's psychic powers, and adding in the Sunshark's bombs, that would certainly make us a heavy mortal wounds list (too heavy?)

Mortal wound spam is one of the best tricks in 8th Edition 40k- and the big drawback of TSons mortal wound spam is that smite only targets the closest unit. The Sun Shark allows you to bring the mortal wound threat into the enemy's backline.

steelmanf wrote:I personally never want to use the Sunshark without the 2nd missile pod. I know it's expensive, but if I have to jettison the drones to cover an emergency objective, then I just have a single hard-to-hit missile pod/bombs floating around, which might wind up just being ignored (for better or worse).

You're definitely correct here. I felt bad removing the second missile pod anyway. Let's put it back on.

steelmanf wrote:2. I worry that dedicating an entire unit to markerlights, even only 5-man, might be overkill, especially given that half our list won't benefit, and to knock out ALL markerlight support (not counting Sunshark) they just need to wipe a few pathfinders.

This is one problem that, unless you have a few Firesight Marksmen or Fireblades lying around, Tau really can't solve right now. You do have a Firesight Marksman though, so let's try to use that in combination with Fire Warrior-embedded Markerlights to solve the Markerlight fragility problem.

steelmanf wrote:You're right that Stealth Suits may not be necessary anymore, except to give me Vanguard +1 CP. So here is an experimental list I just shuffled around a bit to give me even more punch, keep the troops, but downgrade to a Patrol detachment.

The loss of one Command Point isn't critical, especially seeing as your Puretide Engram Neurochip should generate a few more Command Points as the game goes on. We can try to bring a Patrol Detachment. I'm also wary about bringing XV8s in groups larger than three. Looking the list you just wrote, here's a new idea:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (191)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 998 - Command Points: 3 (2 Patrol Detachments)

-

What do you think?

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steelmanf
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#10 » Jan 03 2018 10:36

I think we have a few really viable lists to choose from here, honestly. I realized later that my blob of 10 gun drones would be highly susceptible to death by morale. Maybe I should make room for the Fireblade as you suggested for that 1 reliable ML. In the right situation, might even be able to pull one on my opponent and sneak a volley fire in with the drones (very situational).

Let me shift tracks for a second here. What would be a good next thing to add to my models? Forge World is a bit expensive at this point for me, so I'm thinking that Devilfish for my Breachers, or maybe just invest in some more Commanders? I realize that the codex may be right around the corner, so I'll hold off until then, but just curious based on the current index book.

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#11 » Jan 03 2018 11:09

steelmanf wrote:I think we have a few really viable lists to choose from here, honestly. I realized later that my blob of 10 gun drones would be highly susceptible to death by morale. Maybe I should make room for the Fireblade as you suggested for that 1 reliable ML.

Sounds like a plan then! Pick a list you like out of the options we've considered and let us know how the games go.

steelmanf wrote:What would be a good next thing to add to my models? Forge World is a bit expensive at this point for me, so I'm thinking that Devilfish for my Breachers, or maybe just invest in some more Commanders? I realize that the codex may be right around the corner, so I'll hold off until then, but just curious based on the current index book.

The Codex is definitely coming out soon. Some major things may change, but if you want to get a head start on painting or modeling, what you can do now is think about what kind of list you want to run. For example, a "rainbow" list including one of each unit probably isn't a good idea.

Looking at your collection, there's no clear theme, but you do have a lot of battlesuits. If you're looking to further define your army based on the models you own, I'd suggest to start adding redundant/backup units. A second Ghostkeel, a second Commander, and maybe a second squad of Stealthsuits could all be good additions.

If you want to play competitively, don't think about what new things you could add, but rather what things you could double up on. That's why I'd suggest doubling up on certain battlesuit choices instead of adding mechanized infantry.

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steelmanf
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#12 » Jan 23 2018 03:04

Arka0415 wrote:Sounds like a plan then! Pick a list you like out of the options we've considered and let us know how the games go.


The tournament was held this last weekend. We did...ok...winning 1 out of 3 games. Unfortunately, I realized later after we'd debated this list for a bit that the tournament would be using Adepticon detachment rules, which I found to be somewhat restrictive. I wound up with a "Speartip Detachment" that looked like this:

+ HQ +
Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [7 PL, 150pts]: Homing beacon, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system: 2x Advanced targeting system, 2x Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 306pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 251pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: Drone controller, 2x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Flamer

+ Fast Attack +
Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 64pts]
. 7x Pathfinder: 7x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol

+ Troops +
Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle


My Thousand Sons teammate's list remained as listed in OP.

Here are some VERY brief battle report summaries:

First game went well, against Space Wolves and Ultramarines. This would be the only game against anyone that didn't have their codex. The Ultramarines brought a bunch of Intercessors and Hellblasters plus a Xipher interceptor, while the Wolves brought a couple of Wolf Guard squads, a unit of Fenrisian Wolves, and a Stormfang Gunship. There were obviously a smattering of HQ's but I don't really remember all of their names. Technically, their team bringing more than one flyer broke Adepticon rules, but they were allowed to compete anyway. That Xipher had to go, since I didn't want him shooting my Fly heavy army, so with some mortal wounds from my teammate and some well-placed shots from my Commander, it went down turn one, having done no damage. Turn 2, the Stormfang tried to assassinate my Commander, and failing that, immediately regretted it, and was fell by his very prey. The Flamersuits Manta'd in to toast the Primaris Intercessors, blasting through about 8 of them, and then proceeded to march across the board to be a constant thorn in the collective SM side. The CIB suits only managed to pluck a few Hellblasters and such here and there. The Psychic heavy 1K Sons were the anvil to my hammer, additionally denying the witch several times, which would be a continuing theme in our games. In summary, if we'd had time for turn 4, we would have wiped the Marines right off the table.

Game 2 was against a team of "those guys." They argued rules constantly, and were constantly wrong by the way (via tournament judge, even). And they had a super nasty little list of Chaos Cultist spam. They had a ridiculous number of CP, which they used to sprawl their army across 3/4s of the board, and daisy-chained them all back to their character whose aura prevented them from losing morale checks. There were probably 4 or 5 squads of 40 cultists each used in this manner. And any time we got one of those squads low enough, they just used 2 CP to remove and redeploy the cultist squad back to full health. And it took FOREVER for them to do their turns. We only made it 2 rounds before we ran out of time, and we were still the last ones done that tournament round. We just didn't have enough concentrated firepower to compete against this list.

How do we deal with the Chaos Cultist spam in an all-comers tournament list?

Game 3 we were tabled, and I wasn't even mad about it. The IG list we were against was just as mean, but I felt like it was a fun challenge and they guys we played against were pretty nice as well. Between 3 Basilisks and 2 Manticore platforms, plus an array of transports and infantry, is just an awful lot of firepower to repel. And we made them sweat, even when most of my Thousand Sons ally was wiped out turn one. He had some bad save rolls, and he lost Ahriman in close-combat against one of their flyers (don't know the name, but they had a weapon with 20 shots) which was hilarious and all had a good laugh at his expense. I managed to tie up the Basilisks at the bottom of turn 1, but even then it was just all too much, though we put up a good fight and won some moral victories. On the last turn, my Commander split his FBs on the 2 flyers within Melta range and downed both at the same time. Epic.

I'm thinking of naming my commander something to commemorate his ability to down a couple flyers per game, perhaps Commander Twinstar? Ideas?

Other notes:
    -CIB suits didn't do nearly the damage I was hoping for, against vehicles or even TEQ's.
    -Flamersuits were rockstars, surprisingly even denting vehicles fairly reliably.
    -Stealth Suits always survived to put down their Homing Beacon and then my opponents always ignored them, but they still got to do some harassing damage.
    -Everyone knows the mantra "Kill The Pathfinders!"
    -Strike team was largely left alone.
    -I don't like Adepticon detachments.

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Arka0415
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#13 » Jan 23 2018 07:21

steelmanf wrote:First game went well, against Space Wolves and Ultramarines. This would be the only game against anyone that didn't have their codex. The Ultramarines brought a bunch of Intercessors and Hellblasters plus a Xipher interceptor, while the Wolves brought a couple of Wolf Guard squads, a unit of Fenrisian Wolves, and a Stormfang Gunship. There were obviously a smattering of HQ's but I don't really remember all of their names.

Great! This is the sort of army you will do well against. Sounds like a good game and a good matchup too!

steelmanf wrote:Game 2 was against a team of "those guys." They argued rules constantly, and were constantly wrong by the way (via tournament judge, even). And they had a super nasty little list of Chaos Cultist spam. They had a ridiculous number of CP, which they used to sprawl their army across 3/4s of the board, and daisy-chained them all back to their character whose aura prevented them from losing morale checks.

...

How do we deal with the Chaos Cultist spam in an all-comers tournament list?

This is a skew list. Not a list looking to make the top tables, just to get more wins than losses by either winning hard, or losing hard. I'm surprised though that they were immune to morale tests, besides the Dark Apostle who boosts them to LD9, are there models that make Cultists immune to morale? I've never seen a model with that ability and I have a competitive cultist player in my own meta. Maybe I'm missing something obvious though.

Anyway, besides Flamers, Gun Drones, and hoping for huge morale casualties, Tau do not have a good answer to this kind of army. Again, it's a skew list- either you match up well against it, or you don't.

steelmanf wrote:Game 3 we were tabled, and I wasn't even mad about it. The IG list we were against was just as mean, but I felt like it was a fun challenge and they guys we played against were pretty nice as well. Between 3 Basilisks and 2 Manticore platforms, plus an array of transports and infantry, is just an awful lot of firepower to repel.

That's Guard right now- #1 or #2 in the current meta (Chaos might be stronger) and absolutely vicious. Given that Guard is basically the best army with the best stratagems and Tau are essentially tied for the worst with no stratagems, the fact that you were able to stand against a real Guard list and win morale victories is fantastic.

steelmanf wrote:CIB suits didn't do nearly the damage I was hoping for, against vehicles or even TEQ's.

It all depends on your rolling I guess- D3 damage is horribly unreliable, but it's still the best thing we have against TEQs. The other battlesuit-mounted option would be an all-Fusion Blaster loadout, whicj will statistically deal the same number of wounds against Terminators, but it's more expensive and less versatile.

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steelmanf
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#14 » Jan 24 2018 09:39

Arka0415 wrote:This is a skew list. Not a list looking to make the top tables, just to get more wins than losses by either winning hard, or losing hard. I'm surprised though that they were immune to morale tests, besides the Dark Apostle who boosts them to LD9, are there models that make Cultists immune to morale? I've never seen a model with that ability and I have a competitive cultist player in my own meta. Maybe I'm missing something obvious though.

Anyway, besides Flamers, Gun Drones, and hoping for huge morale casualties, Tau do not have a good answer to this kind of army. Again, it's a skew list- either you match up well against it, or you don't.


I'm pretty sure their list was Death Guard Cultists paired with Tzeentch Cultists, if I remember right. I'll have to do some research to see if I can figure out who their characters were specifically, but given the tone of the game, I wouldn't be surprised if our opponents were just mistaken/misinterpreted a rule, or we were just outright duped. I probably should have grabbed a copy of their list, oh well.

It sounds like I'm being a real downer, but let me be clear that ultimately I enjoyed the tournament and will likely do another one when I'm built up a little better and after the codex comes out. Even this game against Chaos cultists had its bright spots (like the bonfires made from all the crispy little cultists).

Arka0415 wrote:
steelmanf wrote:CIB suits didn't do nearly the damage I was hoping for, against vehicles or even TEQ's.

It all depends on your rolling I guess- D3 damage is horribly unreliable, but it's still the best thing we have against TEQs. The other battlesuit-mounted option would be an all-Fusion Blaster loadout, whicj will statistically deal the same number of wounds against Terminators, but it's more expensive and less versatile.


I'll admit, rolling a 1 or 2 for damage can be pretty disheartening. The real problem though was even getting to the damage roll phase after hitting, wounding, and saves. So maybe I had some bad dice rolls, but placing the blame on luck doesn't really do me any good. I may go back to the 3x CIB loadout, as you suggested in another thread, to help negate the effects of a black cat/broken mirror kind of day.

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steelmanf
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Posts: 43

Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#15 » Jan 24 2018 10:30

Arka0415 wrote:I'm surprised though that they were immune to morale tests, besides the Dark Apostle who boosts them to LD9, are there models that make Cultists immune to morale? I've never seen a model with that ability and I have a competitive cultist player in my own meta. Maybe I'm missing something obvious though.


My teammate just texted me that it was Abbadon the Despoiler.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#16 » Jan 24 2018 06:54

steelmanf wrote:I'm pretty sure their list was Death Guard Cultists paired with Tzeentch Cultists, if I remember right. I'll have to do some research to see if I can figure out who their characters were specifically, but given the tone of the game, I wouldn't be surprised if our opponents were just mistaken/misinterpreted a rule, or we were just outright duped. I probably should have grabbed a copy of their list, oh well.

So it was Abaddon huh? He's not a very popular character right now, so he didn't even occur to me. Interesting. The best Cultist combo army is Poxwalkers/Alpha Legion Cultists, was that the army they were using?

steelmanf wrote:I'll admit, rolling a 1 or 2 for damage can be pretty disheartening. The real problem though was even getting to the damage roll phase after hitting, wounding, and saves. So maybe I had some bad dice rolls, but placing the blame on luck doesn't really do me any good. I may go back to the 3x CIB loadout, as you suggested in another thread, to help negate the effects of a black cat/broken mirror kind of day.

If you want something that can more reliably wound Terminators, go with Plasma Rifles. Remember though that you need to kill the squad in one go though, or else you're facing a guaranteed charge since you're shooting at 12".

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steelmanf
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Re: First Tournament - 2v2

Post#17 » Jan 24 2018 10:03

definitely not Poxwalkers. Might have been Alpha Legion Cultists and Death Guard (list also had some Nurglings).

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