Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

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FoxZz
Shas
Posts: 16

Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#1 » Jan 09 2018 01:55

Hello all,

Recently I've decided to come back in W40k, after a long pause, to upgrade my Tau 5th edition army into a new 8th one. Allas, my battleforce was dumped by my dear mother, and only an old-school commander suit has survived this catastrophy.
As such, my objective here is simple, building a new 2000pts army, for the least money possible while statying competitive in the 8th. While no major purchase wil be done beefore new codex, I've already established a 2000pts multi-role list lthat will guide my shopping. I'd be glad if you could give me some opinions.

I started with a list based on Striking Scorpion's Tau list that seemed to work well, with a strong base of Fire buffed by characters, a deep strking Crisis component to wreak havoc in the back lines, and a infiltration component to skirmish.
At first I thought replacing the Stormsurge (expensive and ambitious mini) by a couple of Hammerheads (more doable). But after lurcking in this forum, I decided to discard Brodsides too, as they are very expensive (points and euros) and not very effective. I hesistated to take one or 2 Devilfish to take full advantage of the Breachers and add some troop mobility to the army, but it seems that having only a couple of vehicles is dangerous, (that's also why I discarded the Hammerheads. I also wanted to ave a maximum of command points, because those seems decisive in the 8th.

Here is the last iteration of my List :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T'au list 1998pts, 9 Command Points, 95 Power Level

Outrider detachment : 269 pts, 1CP, 18PL

HQ :

- Darkstrider : (45)[2]
o Warlord, Exemplar of Mont'ka
Troops :

- 2x Breacher team (80) [6]
o 4 Shas’el : Pulse Blaster
o 1 Shas’ui : Pulse Pistol, Pulse Blaster

Fast Attack :

- 2x Pathfinder teams (112) [8]
o 4 Shas’el : Markerlight
o 1 Shas’ui : Pulse Pistol, Markerlight
o 2 Pulse Accelerator drone

- Drone Tactical Team (32) [2]
o 4 Shield Drones

Vanguard detachment : 1029 pts, 1CP, 42PL

HQ :

- Fusion Commander (176) [6]
o 4 Fusion Blasters
o 2 Shield Drones

Elite :

- 2x XV25 Stealth team (310) [14]
o 2 Shas’ui : 2 Blast Cannons
o 1 Shas’vre : Blast Cannon, Drone Controller, Homing Becon
o 5 gun drones

- XV8 Crisis Team (306) [12]
o 2 Shas’ui : 4 Cyclic Ion Blaster, 2 Advanced Targeting System
o 1 Shas’vre : 2 Cyclic Ion Blaster, 1 Advanced Targeting System
o 6 gun drones

- Ghostkeel suit (237) [10]
o Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 Fusion Blaster, Target Lock, Shield Generator
o 2 Stealth Drones

High Command Detachment : 444 pts, 1CP, 18PL

HQ :

- Fusion Commander (176) [6]
o 4 Fusion Blasters
o 2 Shield Drones

- 2x Missile Commanders (268) [12]
o 3 Missile Pods, 1 Advanced Targetting system

Batallion Detachment : 256 pts, 6CP, 17PL

HQ :

- Ethereal : (45) [2]
o Honour Blade
- Fireblade (39) [3]
o Puretide Engram Neurochip

Troops :

- 4 Strike Team (172) [12]
o 4 Shas’la : Pulse Rifle
o 1 Shas’ui : Pulse Rifle, Pulse Pistol, Markerlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a total of :

- 30 Fire Warriors
- 16 Gun Drones
- 8 Shield Drones
- 4 Pulse Drones
- 2 Stealh Drones
- 10 Pathfinders
- 6 Stealth Suits
- 4 Commanders
- 3 Crisis Suits
- 1 Ghostkeel

Strategy :

I would create a fire base of Strike teams, with Breachers teams in cover or on the flanks around the Etherial and Fireblade, Darkstrider as well as the 2 Missile commanders. Crisis team and Fusion commanders in Manta Strike, and Ghostkeel/Stealthsuit combo infiltrated for skirmish and droping homing beacon for Crisis.
The Drone shield squad would be deployed next to the missile commanders.

The Base of Fire would provide Marker lights as well as medium range support fire thanks to Missile commanders (kind of low cost Broadsides), Pulse Drones and Fireblade. Darkstrider will be used when the line is overhelmed to allow retreat and shooting, to focus some ennemies with its -1 to toughness, or to counter deepstriking ennemies with the breachers. The ethereal, in addition to its morale buff (my FW will never flee), will provide rerolls for 1s, on targets without markerlights. The base of fire could be deployed either in one big blob, or in 2 smaller ones. I'm not sure the Breachers are worth it because of the lack of DF, but they could prove usefull to counter deepstrike or move on objectives later on. I gave the Puretide cheap to the Fireblade because it's the character the less exposed to risk.

The Stealthsuits and their drone give me a very powerfull BS4+ S5 firepower great to kill masses, while the Ghostkeel provide a more anti-elite anti-vehicle/monster capability. I could make the Ghostkeel full fusion, but with its BS I'm not sure it's worth it while the ionraker is a good mulitole weapon. I still keep the Fusion Blaster because I already have plenty of Burst Cannons.

The Fusion commanders would be deployed first to kill transports or major armored units/monsters while being screened by the stealth suits ideally. Then I would drop the Crisis team to counter the counter attack and clean up. An alternative loaodut for Crisis team would be 2 Flamer + ATS using homing beacon, but I like the versatility of the CIB.

Other :

This list has the advantage of being very cheap to assemble : in addition to my remaing crisis commander, it only requires the starter box, the rapid insertion force, a couple of fire warrior boxes and a pathfinder box, around 300 euros, quite a bargain.

What do you think ? Any advices ?
Last edited by FoxZz on Jan 12 2018 12:08, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FoxZz
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#2 » Jan 11 2018 07:49

I just noticed that I had made several errors in my list, both points wise and rules wise. This led me to slightly reorganise and modify my list. I deleted the Ethereal and replaced Darsktrider by another Fireblade. I also added a unit of 6 gun drones that will be used as I see fit at the moment. I could have made my Firewarrior teams 6 instead of 5, but this would have needed an extra firewarrior box.

The advantage of this new iteration is that I can split my firebase in two, which will force my ennemy either to split his forces, either to charge only one of the firebase, while the other one will be free to fire. Each Firebase will be made of a Fireblade, a Missile Commander, a Pathfinder team and its drones, 2 strike teams and one breacher team.

So here is the new and more compact list :

-- T'au 2000 Points List; Chapter Approved; No Forgeworld Miniatures ------------------------------------------------

-- 2 Batallion Detachments, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 10 Command Points --------------------------------------------

-- 1999 Points; 98 Power Level ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Puretide Engram Chip; Warlord - Exemplar of the Kauyon (39) [2]
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (39) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blaster, Cylic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (237) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48)[4]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This list makes 30 Fire Warriors, 10 Pathfinders, 12 Gun Drones, 8 Shield Drones, 7 Commanders/Crisis Suits, 6 XV25 Stealth Suits, 4 Markerlight Drones, 2 Cadre Fireblade, 1 Ghostkeel.

Which means that in addition to the 1 crisis suit that I already have, I only need the following boxes : "Start Collecting! The T'au Empire"; "Battleforce T'au Empire Rapid Insertion Force"; 1 "Pathfinder team"; 1 "Fire Warriors Strike Team"; 1 "Fire Warriors Breacher Team"; 2 "Cadre Fireblade".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think it would work ?
Any Suggestion ?
Last edited by FoxZz on Jan 11 2018 09:28, edited 4 times in total.

gunrock
Shas
Posts: 60

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#3 » Jan 11 2018 09:18

FoxZz wrote:I just noticed that I had made an error in my list, my Missiles Commanders were too cheap, I corrected the price and had to remove the Ethereal from the list. Which means that if a Fire Warrior squad takes 4 losses and I roll a 5, my last fire warrior will be lost. I will also be more reliant on markerlights. I also reorganised it to get more command points and did some loadout changes.

So here is the new and more compact list, same strategy than the above post :

-- T'au 2000 Points List; Chapter Approved; No Forgeworld Miniatures -----------------------------------------------------

-- 2 Batallion Detachments, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 10 Command Points -------------------------------------------------

-- 2002 Points; 95 Power Level ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HQ - Darkstrider : (45)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Puretide Engram Chip; Warlord - Exemplar of the Kauyon (39)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; 2x Shield Drones (172)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; 2x Shield Drones (172)
Troops - Striker Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43)
Troops - Striker Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43)
Troops - Striker Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43)
Troops - Striker Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43)
Troops - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40)
Troops - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 5x Gun Drones (155)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 5x Gun Drones (155)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blaster, Fusion Collider; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (242)
Fast Attack - Pathfinder team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56)
Fast Attack - Pathfinder team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think it would work ?
Any Suggestion ?


Hey Foxzz! Just another Shas here, but I notice a few things that might be helpful. Most of your list looks solid, but there are a few minor ambiguities:
- You have too many drones on the XV-25 teams, I believe they cap at two, which also saves you some points!
- On pathfinder team I don't think you can take 2 pulse accelerator drones, again, points savings!

As for the units themselves:
- Really try to fill all your hard points, the unit that sticks out is the missile commanders, a common 4th slot is ATS for that build. If you REALLY don't want to fill it a 2 pt. multi tracker is sub-optimal, but alright.

- people like to debate on whether taking breachers without devilfish is a good strategy as they depend on getting in that 5 inch range to really maximize their potential. I think they're alright as deep strike flank protection, but can end up underutilized without a transport.

You mentioned the that you were starting from scratch and buying units, and you're totally right about the start collecting box and rapid insertion force being the way to go. My only thought is that fire warriors as a separate box are disproportionately expensive as you end up with basically 1 1/2 units worth of parts. Cutting down to a single battalion and adding a second crisis team would let you get enough fire warriors out of 2 start collecting boxes. The start collecting boxes also come with about 8 drones each and are all around useful to have a lot of.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

User avatar
FoxZz
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#4 » Jan 11 2018 09:41

gunrock wrote:Hey Foxzz! Just another Shas here, but I notice a few things that might be helpful. Most of your list looks solid, but there are a few minor ambiguities:
- You have too many drones on the XV-25 teams, I believe they cap at two, which also saves you some points!
- On pathfinder team I don't think you can take 2 pulse accelerator drones, again, points savings!

As for the units themselves:
- Really try to fill all your hard points, the unit that sticks out is the missile commanders, a common 4th slot is ATS for that build. If you REALLY don't want to fill it a 2 pt. multi tracker is sub-optimal, but alright.

- people like to debate on whether taking breachers without devilfish is a good strategy as they depend on getting in that 5 inch range to really maximize their potential. I think they're alright as deep strike flank protection, but can end up underutilized without a transport.

You mentioned the that you were starting from scratch and buying units, and you're totally right about the start collecting box and rapid insertion force being the way to go. My only thought is that fire warriors as a separate box are disproportionately expensive as you end up with basically 1 1/2 units worth of parts. Cutting down to a single battalion and adding a second crisis team would let you get enough fire warriors out of 2 start collecting boxes. The start collecting boxes also come with about 8 drones each and are all around useful to have a lot of.


Hello !

Thank you for your answer !

I hadn't noticed your message, I indeed found out about the drone mistake on the Stealth team, which led me to edit the list quite significantly as you can see above. For the Missile commanders, I had included the ATS in the points, just forgot to write it down >> here is the edited list >>

-- 1999 Points; 98 Power Level, 10 CP (2 Batallion, 1 Vanguard) --------------------------------------------------

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Puretide Engram Chip; Warlord - Exemplar of the Kauyon (39) [2]
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (39) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blaster, Cylic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (237) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48)[4]


About breachers, I really don't know, I could turn them into regular Strike teams and delete a drone from the Fast attack slot so both can have Markerlight. But in the same time, they can be usefull as a back line anti deep strike unit, as you said, or to take down heavy charging units, or move on objectives later on. I didn't include a Devilfish for them because I've read that lne vehicles gets popped very quickly and after watching some batreps, it seems they can do pretty well. I guess I will decide with the experience.

About Pathfinders drones, Index says, 1 Pulse drone and/or 1 Grav drone, to me it means that I can 2 pulse, or 2 grav or 1 of each.

FW boxes aren't 10 man strong = 2*5 mans teams ? So you advise me to get 2 start collecting boxes and 1 rapid insertion force ?

I've checked rapidly, to include a second XV8 team, with the cheapest configuration (Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers ; 3 ATS ; 6 Gun/Shield Drones = 252pts), I would need to remove, in addition to the 2 firewarriors team, 1 Stealth team and one Fireblade. I would end up with 8 extra points.

If I restrict my unit choice strictly to the minis available in 2 Starter Box, 1 Rapid Insertion and 1 Pathfinder box, I get the foollowing list :

HQ - Ethereal w/ Puretide Engram Chip (45) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones; Warlord - Exemplar of Mont'ka (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 8x Gun Drones (64)[4]

Total : 1997 pts, 95 PL, 8 CP (1 Batallion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider).


1 Ethereal, 11 Crisis/Commander, 3 Stealth, 20 FWs, 1 Ghostkeel, 10 Pathfinder, 36 Drones.
Units not utilised : 1 Ethereal, 3 stealth suits
Price : 285 euros
The question is are there 36 drones in those 3 boxes ?

Otherwise, Both lists are about the same price to acquire (the other is at 300 euros without GW Fireblades), but this one has 2 less commands points, which one is the best in your opinion ?

gunrock
Shas
Posts: 60

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#5 » Jan 12 2018 03:00

FoxZz wrote:
gunrock wrote:
-- 1999 Points; 98 Power Level, 10 CP (2 Batallion, 1 Vanguard) --------------------------------------------------

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Puretide Engram Chip; Warlord - Exemplar of the Kauyon (39) [2]
HQ - Cadre Fireblade (39) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Troop - Breacher Team w/ 5x Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blaster, Cylic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (237) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48)[4]


About breachers, I really don't know, I could turn them into regular Strike teams and delete a drone from the Fast attack slot so both can have Markerlight. But in the same time, they can be usefull as a back line anti deep strike unit, as you said, or to take down heavy charging units, or move on objectives later on. I didn't include a Devilfish for them because I've read that lne vehicles gets popped very quickly and after watching some batreps, it seems they can do pretty well. I guess I will decide with the experience.

About Pathfinders drones, Index says, 1 Pulse drone and/or 1 Grav drone, to me it means that I can 2 pulse, or 2 grav or 1 of each.

FW boxes aren't 10 man strong = 2*5 mans teams ? So you advise me to get 2 start collecting boxes and 1 rapid insertion force ?

I've checked rapidly, to include a second XV8 team, with the cheapest configuration (Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers ; 3 ATS ; 6 Gun/Shield Drones = 252pts), I would need to remove, in addition to the 2 firewarriors team, 1 Stealth team and one Fireblade. I would end up with 8 extra points.

If I restrict my unit choice strictly to the minis available in 2 Starter Box, 1 Rapid Insertion and 1 Pathfinder box, I get the foollowing list :

HQ - Ethereal w/ Puretide Engram Chip (45) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones; Warlord - Exemplar of Mont'ka (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 8x Gun Drones (64)[4]

Total : 1997 pts, 95 PL, 8 CP (1 Batallion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider).


1 Ethereal, 11 Crisis/Commander, 3 Stealth, 20 FWs, 1 Ghostkeel, 10 Pathfinder, 36 Drones.
Units not utilised : 1 Ethereal, 3 stealth suits
Price : 285 euros
The question is are there 36 drones in those 3 boxes ?

Otherwise, Both lists are about the same price to acquire (the other is at 300 euros without GW Fireblades), but this one has 2 less commands points, which one is the best in your opinion ?


You know, play what you like, in the way that brings you the most enjoyment. Pretty inevitably, you'll end up with a bunch of different types of units that you can build a variety of lists with, and both of those box sets actually have a really great selection of core units in them. Personally, I found that I ended up buying extra boxes of pathfinders, firewarriors, XV-8, stealthsuits, and commanders and I would of saved a bit of money just buying them in box sets, mostly because there's a limit to how many XV-8 you actually need. Most battlesuit lists won't run more then 2 squads of 3 XV-8 and maybe a 3-5 commanders so having more then 10 is a bit redundant, but the box is the only way to get firewarriors cheap.
To clarify, the strike team boxes do come with 10 fire warriors, but also parts for breachers which mean you usually end up with 10 extra weapons, heads, backpacks, and bits, and no bodies or legs to build a team. For whatever reason they just end up costing more to buy separately then say 10 pathfinders. On amazon a 10 man strike team (with 2 drones) is 42 dollars, a 10 man pathfinder team (with 2 drones) is 29.75,a separate box of XV-8 (w. 6 drones) is 63.74, and an Ethereal is 25 dollars, while the start collecting box is includes a strike team, 3 xv-8, an ethereal on a hover drone and 8 drones so 72.25. So even ignoring the ethereal, its about 30 percent cheaper to buy your strike teams/XV-8 in the start collecting box, which adds up. Sorry, that was kinda a long tangent.

As for your list, both of them are pretty well rounded. The only things that I would consider changing are all preferential. Usually, I would rather take 3rd squad of pathfinders over a 4th strike team because I only run enough infantry to get battalion, but strike teams are still useful. I don't run the flamers because I don't like the potential loss of first turn shooting, but they are still a strong pick for your anti-infantry especially since your running the stealth team+Beacon combo also. Missile pods are considered overcosted, but one of the few decent 36'' weapons. I prefer a 3rd fusion commander, but some very good lists run the 3 MS +ATS setup. I don't play a ghostkeel because I don't own one, and spent all my money on separate XV-8, pathfinders, and stealth teams and screwed up no buying the box set :roll: It's a totally reasonable choice, and also I think one of the nicest looking tau models. The other two things are super minor: Generally, you want to break gun drone squads into minimum squad size or close to that to avoid morale losses, so running 2 squads of 4x gun drones is preferable to a squad of 8x unless the reduce drops is particularly relevant. The other is that most people prefer the fire blade to the ethereal for the volley fire and +2 markerlight, and he has great synergy with gun drones.

Your doing everything right. Those are both good looking lists. It really just comes down to playstyle, whether you emphasize playing gunline or deep strike, and whichever way you go your not that far from the other list.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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Arka0415
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Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#6 » Jan 12 2018 04:32

FoxZz wrote:HQ - Ethereal w/ Puretide Engram Chip (45) [2]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones; Warlord - Exemplar of Mont'ka (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (172) [7]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Blast cannon; Homing Beacon; Drone Controler; 2x Markerlight Drones (135) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System ; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol; 2x Pulse Accelerator Drone (56) [4]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 8x Gun Drones (64)[4]

Total : 1997 pts, 95 PL, 8 CP (1 Batallion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider).

Looks like a solid list but there are definitely a few places to improve it. First as Gunrock pointed ot the Pathfinders can't double up on PA drones, and plus they aren't even necessary since this list isn't really running a synergistic gunline anyway. Second, there's no real need to run the Ethereal, and the PEN isn't going to do much good on it anyway. Third, your Missile Pod Commanders can probably shed their Shield Drones, since they'll operate behind your lines, while the Stealthsuits would do well to take a pair of Shield Drones instead of Marker Drones; with a Flamer XV8 squad in reserve that Homing Beacon's durability will be paramount. Finally, the 8x Gun Drone team is going to take pretty serious morale losses, so we can fix that by splitting it down. Changes made, here's the list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 4x Gun Drones (32) [2]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 4x Gun Drones (32) [2]

Total : 1884 pts, 91 PL, 8 CP (1 Battalion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider)

-

At 1884 points you have plenty of room to grow. If you have two Start Collecting sets, one Rapid Insertion Cadre, and one box of Pathfinders, that still leaves you with a few more models to use- namely, the second Stealthsuit squad! If we add them in and add in a few more drones, we can make this list, which should pack a bit more punch!

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48) [3]

Total : 1999 pts, 97 PL, 8 CP (1 Battalion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider)

-

What do you think?

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FoxZz
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Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#7 » Jan 12 2018 09:19

gunrock wrote:
You know, play what you like, in the way that brings you the most enjoyment. Pretty inevitably, you'll end up with a bunch of different types of units that you can build a variety of lists with, and both of those box sets actually have a really great selection of core units in them. Personally, I found that I ended up buying extra boxes of pathfinders, firewarriors, XV-8, stealthsuits, and commanders and I would of saved a bit of money just buying them in box sets, mostly because there's a limit to how many XV-8 you actually need. Most battlesuit lists won't run more then 2 squads of 3 XV-8 and maybe a 3-5 commanders so having more then 10 is a bit redundant, but the box is the only way to get firewarriors cheap.
To clarify, the strike team boxes do come with 10 fire warriors, but also parts for breachers which mean you usually end up with 10 extra weapons, heads, backpacks, and bits, and no bodies or legs to build a team. For whatever reason they just end up costing more to buy separately then say 10 pathfinders. On amazon a 10 man strike team (with 2 drones) is 42 dollars, a 10 man pathfinder team (with 2 drones) is 29.75,a separate box of XV-8 (w. 6 drones) is 63.74, and an Ethereal is 25 dollars, while the start collecting box is includes a strike team, 3 xv-8, an ethereal on a hover drone and 8 drones so 72.25. So even ignoring the ethereal, its about 30 percent cheaper to buy your strike teams/XV-8 in the start collecting box, which adds up. Sorry, that was kinda a long tangent.


You are absolutely right, I hadn't noticed it before your intervention, buying a second starter pack instead of extra individual boxes, in addition to being more cost-effective, is straight up cheaper for a 2000pts list.

gunrock wrote:As for your list, both of them are pretty well rounded. The only things that I would consider changing are all preferential. Usually, I would rather take 3rd squad of pathfinders over a 4th strike team because I only run enough infantry to get battalion, but strike teams are still useful. I don't run the flamers because I don't like the potential loss of first turn shooting, but they are still a strong pick for your anti-infantry especially since your running the stealth team+Beacon combo also. Missile pods are considered overcosted, but one of the few decent 36'' weapons. I prefer a 3rd fusion commander, but some very good lists run the 3 MS +ATS setup. I don't play a ghostkeel because I don't own one, and spent all my money on separate XV-8, pathfinders, and stealth teams and screwed up no buying the box set :roll: It's a totally reasonable choice, and also I think one of the nicest looking tau models. The other two things are super minor: Generally, you want to break gun drone squads into minimum squad size or close to that to avoid morale losses, so running 2 squads of 4x gun drones is preferable to a squad of 8x unless the reduce drops is particularly relevant. The other is that most people prefer the fire blade to the ethereal for the volley fire and +2 markerlight, and he has great synergy with gun drones.

Your doing everything right. Those are both good looking lists. It really just comes down to playstyle, whether you emphasize playing gunline or deep strike, and whichever way you go your not that far from the other list.


I agree on Flamers, 2 CIB+ATS is a lot more versatile and easy to play with but it's also a lot more expensive points wise. I also love the Flamers, I think it's a vrey cool weapon. With all the shield drones, it will also be a great unit to screen the Commanders and the Flamers will be brilliant in overwatch. If I manage to plant a beacon within 8", fusion blasters will be in melta range and Flamer suits will clean the ennemy vehicles survivor turn one. With the ATS it makes them very strong against Primaris, TEQ, light vehicles, and from a safe range.
I didn't believe either in the Missile Commander at first too, but I wanted something to replace Broadsides providing long range firepower down the range and with the ATS, it's 6 shots almost guaranteed to hit with markerlights, S7 AP-2 and D3 dammage, which is very significant. Agaisnt multiwounds ennemies it will be great, it also provides a strong unit to protect from deep striking units.

Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48) [3]

Total : 1999 pts, 97 PL, 8 CP (1 Battalion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider)

-

What do you think?


I really like this list, I think it's the best list available if you restrict yourself to the 4 boxes. I think it can do well against most threats, and my suits are all well protected.
A few remarks, is the drone controller really neeeded on the Stealth suits considering, all units besides the CIB team run Shield drones ? By the way, should CIB team switch itself to Shield drones ?
If I remove the 2 drones controllers from the Stealth suits, and 2 gun drones from the Support drone team, it would give me 27 points to play with, I can either, replace Ghostkeel burst cannons by 2 Fusion Blasters (they are redundant now with the addition of the second Stealth team, while I don't have that many Fusion Blasters), or I could get one of the Stealth suits team equipped with 3xATS which would increase its dammage output.

What do you think ?

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Arka0415
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Posts: 2802

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#8 » Jan 12 2018 09:26

FoxZz wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [7]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) [6]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Troop - Strike Team w/ 5x Pulse Rifles; Photon Grenades; Markerlight; Pulse Pistol (43) [3]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Homing Beacon; Drone Controller; 2x Shield Drones (131) [7]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6 Flamers; 3 Advanced Targeting System; 6 Shield Drones (252) [12]
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blaster; 3x Advanced Targeting System; 6x Gun Drones (306) [12]
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (215) [10]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team w/ 5x Markerlights; Pulse Pistol (40) [3]
Fast Attack – Support Drone Team w/ 6x Gun Drones (48) [3]

Total : 1999 pts, 97 PL, 8 CP (1 Battalion, 1 Vanguard, 1 Outrider)

I really like this list, I think it's the best list available if you restrict yourself to the 4 boxes. I think it can do well against most threats, and my suits are all well protected.
A few remarks, is the drone controller really neeeded on the Stealth suits considering, all units besides the CIB team run Shield drones ? By the way, should CIB team switch itself to Shield drones ?
If I remove the 2 drones controllers from the Stealth suits, and 2 gun drones from the Support drone team, it would give me 27 points to play with, I can either, replace Ghostkeel burst cannons by 2 Fusion Blasters (they are redundant now with the addition of the second Stealth team, while I don't have that many Fusion Blasters), or I could get one of the Stealth suits team equipped with 3xATS which would increase its damage output.

Personally I would actually put Gun Drones on the Flamer XV8s, but that's up to you. 6x Shield Drones work well when the Flamer XV8s are "footslogging" (i.e. not using Manta Strike) but otherwise the 24 S5 shots are alpha that's too good to pass up. Again though that's my personal preference, play some games and find out what you like.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Ghostkeels with Fusion Blasters as I think it works best as an anti-infantry unit. For anti-tank four Commanders should be enough.

Also, I just realized- you aren't going to have four Commanders if you buy those boxes. Are you planning on running one Enforcer Commander and three XV8 Commanders?

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FoxZz
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Posts: 16

Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#9 » Jan 12 2018 09:51

Arka0415 wrote:Personally I would actually put Gun Drones on the Flamer XV8s, but that's up to you. 6x Shield Drones work well when the Flamer XV8s are "footslogging" (i.e. not using Manta Strike) but otherwise the 24 S5 shots are alpha that's too good to pass up. Again though that's my personal preference, play some games and find out what you like.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Ghostkeels with Fusion Blasters as I think it works best as an anti-infantry unit. For anti-tank four Commanders should be enough.

Also, I just realized- you aren't going to have four Commanders if you buy those boxes. Are you planning on running one Enforcer Commander and three XV8 Commanders?


Yeah, I definitely could try Gun drones on Flamer suits, they cost the same so it's not a problem.

Yes, the Commander from the box, 1 old model of Commander, last survivor of my previous battlegroup and 2 XV8s turned into Commander. I will have 2 commanders total, one of which is outdated, so I have not really a choice.
Do you think it might cause problems ?
Last edited by FoxZz on Jan 12 2018 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#10 » Jan 12 2018 10:08

FoxZz wrote:Yes, the Commander from the box, 1 old model of Commander, last survivor of my previous battlegroup and 2 XV8s turned into Commander. I will have 2 commanders total, one of which is outdated, so I have not really a choice.
Do you think it might cause problems ?

Gotcha. It won't be a problem in a casual group, but from a competitive standpoint having multiple different models all represent the same unit could be an issue. The goal of WYSIWYG is to make sure your opponent can see your army and immediately know what everything is. If a number of different models are all Commanders it could, possibly, confuse an opponent. Again, not a problem outright, but just something to stay aware of.

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FoxZz
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Re: Rebuilding a 2000pts army from scratch

Post#11 » Jan 12 2018 11:32

I guess I'll have to make them an obvious Commander paint job.

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