Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
User avatar
Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 108

Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#1 » Jan 09 2018 02:59

Hello all, my wonderful little brother got me a ghostkeel and sunshark ( only fair, I bought him about 1000 points of necrons in return) but theses are units I'd never considered running at this time. So I took a shot at making a themed list around them. I say themed rather than fluffy, since I'm sure I could torture my usual jungle recon fluffy army into this, I think it's a bit inaccurate.

Regardless, this is the " Wings of fire and smoke cadre" ( which I would love to translate if someone could point me in the right direction). The thought is a list based around flamers, stealth and flight ( or all 3) using the fairly close range tactics I prefer to use in this edition.

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Darkstrider [3 PL, 45pts]

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [5 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Fire Warrior
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [22 PL, 434pts]: 2x MV52 Shield Drone, Stimulant injector, Target lock

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight, Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [45 PL, 878pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [7 PL, 150pts]: Advanced targeting system, High-output burst cannon, Missile pod, Shield generator

+ Elites +

Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [13 PL, 234pts]: Homing beacon, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 3x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system: 3x Advanced targeting system, 3x Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Fusion blaster: Drone controller, Fusion blaster
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 291pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [10 PL, 179pts]: 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [110 PL, 2002pts] ++

I know it's not optimized, no list with these units probably could be, but I want to make sure I have no glaring problems. It isn't a tournament list by any means, but should be a TAC one.

The crisis have fusion for the same reason the stealth team does, for that emergency tank hunting after the Y'vahra gets popped. I would run them with CIB instead for the points otherwise. The markerlights in the squads are likewise for redundancy. I could swap the stealth team out for 2 sets of 3, but I'm concerned with them not living past losing the first turn and having the crisis be less effective. The coldstar will get the new Exemplar of the Mont’ka and shadow the sunshark to keep safe and fully effective. The interceptors will probably jump down to hang out with the stealth team's drone controller once the bomber goes down. The Y'vahra will do what she does best, soak fire and spit it back in droves. The ghostkeel I just can't see running the fusion option for the points, not with a 1d3 shot main gun
I know Shadowsun would be the right fluffy general for this army, she's just so meh right now though.... But I'm open to having my opinion changed.

So, thoughts? Am I missing a synergy that would help this out? Too many shield vs gun drones?

User avatar
gunrock
Shas
Posts: 110

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#2 » Jan 14 2018 06:55

Draco023 wrote:Hello all, my wonderful little brother got me a ghostkeel and sunshark ( only fair, I bought him about 1000 points of necrons in return) but theses are units I'd never considered running at this time. So I took a shot at making a themed list around them. I say themed rather than fluffy, since I'm sure I could torture my usual jungle recon fluffy army into this, I think it's a bit inaccurate.

Regardless, this is the " Wings of fire and smoke cadre" ( which I would love to translate if someone could point me in the right direction). The thought is a list based around flamers, stealth and flight ( or all 3) using the fairly close range tactics I prefer to use in this edition.

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Darkstrider [3 PL, 45pts]

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [5 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Fire Warrior
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 51pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [22 PL, 434pts]: 2x MV52 Shield Drone, Stimulant injector, Target lock

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight, Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [45 PL, 878pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [7 PL, 150pts]: Advanced targeting system, High-output burst cannon, Missile pod, Shield generator

+ Elites +

Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [13 PL, 234pts]: Homing beacon, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 3x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system: 3x Advanced targeting system, 3x Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Fusion blaster: Drone controller, Fusion blaster
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 291pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [10 PL, 179pts]: 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [110 PL, 2002pts] ++

I know it's not optimized, no list with these units probably could be, but I want to make sure I have no glaring problems. It isn't a tournament list by any means, but should be a TAC one.

The crisis have fusion for the same reason the stealth team does, for that emergency tank hunting after the Y'vahra gets popped. I would run them with CIB instead for the points otherwise. The markerlights in the squads are likewise for redundancy. I could swap the stealth team out for 2 sets of 3, but I'm concerned with them not living past losing the first turn and having the crisis be less effective. The coldstar will get the new Exemplar of the Mont’ka and shadow the sunshark to keep safe and fully effective. The interceptors will probably jump down to hang out with the stealth team's drone controller once the bomber goes down. The Y'vahra will do what she does best, soak fire and spit it back in droves. The ghostkeel I just can't see running the fusion option for the points, not with a 1d3 shot main gun
I know Shadowsun would be the right fluffy general for this army, she's just so meh right now though.... But I'm open to having my opinion changed.

So, thoughts? Am I missing a synergy that would help this out? Too many shield vs gun drones?


*Wagner playing in the Background*

I like the underlying thematic element of your list, and you have some reasonable synergies. There are a couple spots I would consider how much you want to keep to a theme, versus doing some 'competitive'. Thankfully, I think you can keep the character of the list and build something reasonably strong. Also I think some of your numbers are a little off, which might actually save you some points.

Devilfish combos - Breacher + Darkstriker is a reasonable combo. Fire blade + Strike team is a little bit sub-optimal in this case, as you have not very many fire warriors to take advantage of volley fire. Generally, Drones + Fire blade is considered the stronger combination as it just outputs far more shots then a strike team. The drones also serve an important secondary function of proving extra wounds to your battle suits. With any devilfish combo you really have to weigh the value your getting from sinking 127 points on the transport and losing a turn of shooting, when there are available deep strike alternatives that bypass the vulnerabilities of transports.

XV-25 - Generally, it's recommended to run smaller squad sizes to mitigate morale losses, and for the increased flexibility in movement. It might be worth adding one more suit and splitting to two squads of three, or dropping a suit.

Drones - Consider adding more shield drones to protect the Y'Vahra. It's going to take fire the first turn and you really want to protect your 400+ point investment. 6-10 shield drones is a good standard load out.

Y'Vahra - Many people consider ATS mandatory on this unit with Stim's or Target lock as the second slot. Note, that if you have more markerlight support, and with mont'ka you can somewhat work around taking target lock. Target lock is generally simpler to run as you don't have to juggle so many variables.

XV- 8 - Consider un-mixing the load outs. 2x flamer 1x fusion blast is a reasonable, but I think it's best taken if you want more fusion blasters beyond your dedicated anti-tank units. XV-8 are strictly worse with fusion blasters then commanders by a significant margin. With CIB the gap is much smaller and XV-8 have other advantages, but I promise you'll get much better millage out of your fusion shots from a commander. The full flamer load out will also free up some space if you want to use them as a drone Controller Caddy.

Here's a possible revision:

Battalion Detachment, Outrider, Vanguard Detachment (8 CP)

HQ:

Cadre Fireblade - 1x pulse rifle, 1x markerlight (42)
Darkstrider - 1x Pulse carbine, 1x Markerlight (45)
Commander - 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x shield drone (176)
Commander in XV86 Coldstar - ATS, HOBC, MP, SG (150)

Troops:
Breacher Team 5x - 5x pulse blaster, 1x pulse pistol (40 pt)
Breacher Team 5x - 5x pulse blaster, 1x pulse pistol (40 pt)
Strike Team 5x - 5x Pulse rifle, 1x markerlight [43pts]
Strike Team 5x - 5x Pulse rifle, 1x markerlight [43pts]
Strike Team 5x - 5x Pulse rifle, 1x markerlight [43pts]

Dedicated Transport:
TY7 Devilfish - 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon (127pts)

Fast Attack:
XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit - Stimulant injector, Target lock (434pts)
Tactical Drones 4x - 4x shield generator (32 pts)
Tactical Drones 4x - 4x shield generator (32 pts)
Tactical Drones 4x - 4x pulse carbines (32 pts)

Flyer:
AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight, Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

Elites:
XV25 Stealth Team - 3x Burst Cannon, Homing beacon, 1x Drone Controller, 2x Marker Drones (135)
XV8 Crisis Team - 8x Flamer, 1x DC, 6x Gun drones (251)
XV95 Ghostkeel - 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock (179)

1992 pts

Dropping the first transport frees up a fair number of points to add gun drones and an extra strike team to work with the Fireblade. It also creates some space to add two minimum squads of shield drones to protect your Coldstar/Y'Vahra/XV-8 cluster. Dropping the fusion blasters from the stealth teams and XV-8's frees up some space to add a fusion commander for some dedicated antitank support. This list is pretty light on markerlights (9), but with so many flamer units, stratagem, and the DC buff you can work around it.

What do you think?
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#3 » Jan 14 2018 09:18

Given that this list isn't very dependent on Markerlights and has very little backfield presence, I would question the need for a small gunline at all. The Battalion could still work with two Breacher squads and a Strike Team though. A few important areas that you should consider changing though:

1. Double Breacher + Darkstrider combo is very weak, since Darkstrider buffs only one unit. Do 10x Breachers + Darkstrider, or 2x6 Breachers.

2. Pairs of drones that are not Shield Drones are essentially instant casualties. Give your Stealthsuits Shield Drones.

3. The Sun Shark is highly Markerlight-dependent, needing two Markerlight hits to fire its Seekers, three to fire its guns with any sort of usefulness, and five to fire with full effect. This makes the Sun Shark somewhat of a misfit in the list.

4. There is no way of reinforcing a mid-field Y'vahra with drones without wasting the alpha strike potential of the Flamer XV8 unit.

-

With this in mind, I think you have two options.

1. Double down on close-range firepower and drop the Fire Warriors, Fireblade, and Sun Shark in favor of another Stealthsuit squad with a Homing Beacon and an XV9 with Shield Drones.

2. Switch to a mixed-role list by dropping the Ghostkeel and Coldstar and adding another XV8 squad and Pathfinders. (This is the option I'm in favor of.)

-

Here's #2 written out in a list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (126)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Shield Drones (48)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 2003 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

That would be my idea for the list, still using the core units of Darkstrider, the Fireblade, the Flamer XV8s, the Y'vahra, and the Sunshark. Stll feels to me like the list is "doing two things at once" though.

What do you think?

User avatar
Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 108

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#4 » Jan 14 2018 11:45

Thanks to both of you for the advice! Going to address quick points, since a full quote to both would be a ridiculous wall of text!

Gunrock: I agree with the smaller stealth team for moral and to spread out the effects, but with the new article posted on their durability I went larger just to ensure they're still alive for the homing beacon drop. It would allow me to bring an extra pair of shield drones though, I'll add it to the stack.
I agree the devilfish is a massive point sink, and in my usual jungle recon list I often have a few squads of 5 with pathfinders as a backfield line. This was a deliberate deviation for a different style and theme, but yes, good points.
I considered a QFC, but as great as he is it still bugs me to drop a general in, all but unsupported, behind enemy lines. Fluff wise that is such a Monat thing to do, and I struggle letting my commander do it. I personally go back and forth on the mixed XV8 load outs. I love the versatility of the CIB over the fusion, and they're a standard load out usually. For this they're there for emergency use when the Y'Vahra falls.
I haven't had a game yet where I needed that much anti-tank, just my local meta and that can always change.

Arka: I think half you comments are directed Gunrocks list in response to mine, so I'll only chime in on the later 2.

The sunshark is a total misfit, and only included because it was a gift, along with the ghostkeel. Why would the sunshark need three marker lights for effective weapon fire though? The ion rifles are only heavy when overcharged, at the 15" range they're nearly as effective in standard mode and the missile pods are assault.

To keep the XV109 supported and keep the alpha strike viable I would move the stealth team into position for the drop while their shield drones can sprint over to support the Y'Vahra. It would be depended on positioning of the opponent, but should be a reliable source of midfield shields on first turn, then it's dedicated drones can catch up by 2.... hopefully.

What is the ghostkeel used for though.... Anti elites along with Darkstrider and the breachers?

So here's a tweak to use those points, doubled stealth teams for more shields on the Y'Vahra and with markerlights for support past delivering the beacon and anti infantry. I'll probably wind up dropping the fusions on the xv8, but I do want to try this configuration a few times first.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [65 PL, 1121pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Darkstrider [3 PL, 45pts]

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [5 PL, 80pts]
. 9x Fire Warrior
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol

Strike Team [5 PL, 48pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [5 PL, 48pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 5x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [22 PL, 437pts]: Advanced targeting system, 2x MV52 Shield Drone, Target lock

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight, Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [45 PL, 882pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [7 PL, 150pts]: Advanced targeting system, High-output burst cannon, Missile pod, Shield generator

+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [7 PL, 141pts]: Homing beacon, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Multi-tracker: 2x Burst cannon, 2x Multi-tracker
. Stealth Shas'vre: Burst cannon, Multi-tracker
. . Markerlight + Target Lock: Markerlight, Target lock

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [7 PL, 121pts]: 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Multi-tracker: 2x Burst cannon, 2x Multi-tracker
. Stealth Shas'vre: Burst cannon, Multi-tracker
. . Markerlight + Target Lock: Markerlight, Target lock

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 291pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: 2x Flamer, Fusion blaster

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [10 PL, 179pts]: 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [110 PL, 2003pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#5 » Jan 14 2018 06:58

Draco023 wrote:The sunshark is a total misfit, and only included because it was a gift, along with the ghostkeel. Why would the sunshark need three marker lights for effective weapon fire though? The ion rifles are only heavy when overcharged, at the 15" range they're nearly as effective in standard mode and the missile pods are assault.

Remember the Sunshark carries three additional Heavy weapons (two Seeker Missiles and a Markerlight), and Ion Rifles really are better overcharged- you'll normally be firing at heavy infantry or medium vehicles, so that extra S8 will actually let you wound on 3+ (against medium vehicles) or 2+ against heavy infantry. For example, if you shoot at a Rhino, with two Markerlights you'll statistically deal 2.98 damage, with three Markerlights you'll deal 3.89 damage, and with five Markerlights you'll deal 5.186 damage. That's a pretty big disparity, and most units don't scale quite as much with Markerlights.

Draco023 wrote:To keep the XV109 supported and keep the alpha strike viable I would move the stealth team into position for the drop while their shield drones can sprint over to support the Y'Vahra. It would be depended on positioning of the opponent, but should be a reliable source of midfield shields on first turn, then it's dedicated drones can catch up by 2.... hopefully.

There was a "protecting the Y'vahra" thread a few days ago that you might want to check out, but think about the number of moving parts in this strategy. The Stealthsuits need to deploy near a squad of infantry, but also near the enemy's biggest threat. Then you hope to get first turn, or at least that the enemy doesn't destroy the Stealthsuits or move their threat(s) out of position. Then you need to move the Stealthsuits into a location where they can let the Flamer XV8s drop into a position where they're both within 8" of an infantry threat and that their drones are within 3" of the Y'vahra and the Y'vahra is within 8" of the primary threat. This seems needlessly complicated; at the end of the day forcing Flamer XV8s and the Y'vahra, two units with such disparate roles (anti-light infantry and anti-vehicle/monster), to work together would make the army very tactically inflexible.

That's why I would suggest giving the Y'vahra access to drones that are not attached to either Stealthsuits or Flamer XV8s, and rather are attached to a more versatile Manta Strike unit- either Cyclic Ion Blaster XV8s or Double-Barreled Burst Cannon XV9s.

Draco023 wrote:What is the ghostkeel used for though.... Anti elites along with Darkstrider and the breachers?

The Ghostkeel is also anti-elite. However, it's taking up further space that should be spent on units that synergize with the Y'vahra I think.

Again, the key is to use tactically-versatile units to deploy the drones the Y'vahra needs to survive. Honestly, now that you've mentioned it, we probably don't need Darkstrider's unit either, since we'd prefer to get all of our guns firing on turn one. If we swap Darkstrider's unit for an XV8 squad with will synergize well with the Y'vahra, we'd end up with this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, Target Lock (150)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, Drone Controller; 4x Gun Drones, 2x Marker Drones (255)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Drone Controller; 4x Gun Drones, 2x Marker Drones (327)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (126)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Flamers, Target Lock, ATS (179)
Fast Attack - 4x Shield Drones (32)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 1x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (167)

Total: 1998 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

I'm not happy to drop the second Missile Pod on the Sun Shark but I don't see many other places to reduce points. Personally I think CIBs are the best loadout for XV8s, but if you want to use a different loadout (Plasma Rifles?) then that could free up a few extra points.

What do you think?

User avatar
gunrock
Shas
Posts: 110

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#6 » Jan 14 2018 07:09

Arka0415 wrote:Given that this list isn't very dependent on Markerlights and has very little backfield presence, I would question the need for a small gunline at all. The Battalion could still work with two Breacher squads and a Strike Team though. A few important areas that you should consider changing though:

1. Double Breacher + Darkstrider combo is very weak, since Darkstrider buffs only one unit. Do 10x Breachers + Darkstrider, or 2x6 Breachers.

2. Pairs of drones that are not Shield Drones are essentially instant casualties. Give your Stealthsuits Shield Drones.

3. The Sun Shark is highly Markerlight-dependent, needing two Markerlight hits to fire its Seekers, three to fire its guns with any sort of usefulness, and five to fire with full effect. This makes the Sun Shark somewhat of a misfit in the list.

4. There is no way of reinforcing a mid-field Y'vahra with drones without wasting the alpha strike potential of the Flamer XV8 unit.

With this in mind, I think you have two options.

1. Double down on close-range firepower and drop the Fire Warriors, Fireblade, and Sun Shark in favor of another Stealthsuit squad with a Homing Beacon and an XV9 with Shield Drones.

2. Switch to a mixed-role list by dropping the Ghostkeel and Coldstar and adding another XV8 squad and Pathfinders. (This is the option I'm in favor of.)



Oh you're totally right on the Darkstrider combo, good call. In the context of flamers+Beacon your right about marker drones just getting insta-killed while not adding a lot of value. That said, if you play stealth suits less aggressively I think marker drones are alright, as stealth suits are one of the easier places to fit a DC which is wasted on shield drones. Your also right on optimization, but I was apprehensive to recommend dropping ghostkeel, sunshark, fireblade for thematic reasons. Right now I think the list is bit split between a mechanized infantry, stealth, and Deep strike Battle suit list, and its hard to do all three of those things well, as well as address markerlights.

I would still consider addressing the issue of first turn shield drones for the Y'Vahra. The issue of markerlights is still apparent, you're leaning pretty heavily on fireblade + darkstriker + Sunshark + strategem to get use out of your seeker missiles. Like everything, try it and if it doesn't work out, change it.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#7 » Jan 14 2018 07:14

gunrock wrote:Oh you're totally right on the Darkstrider combo, good call.


gunrock wrote:In the context of flamers+Beacon your right about marker drones just getting insta-killed while not adding a lot of value. That said, if you play stealth suits less aggressively I think marker drones are alright

Remember though that the Stealthsuits are just a delivery system in this case for Flamer XV8s, which is basically the definition of hyper-aggressive play![/quote]

gunrock wrote:Your also right on optimization, but I was apprehensive to recommend dropping ghostkeel, sunshark, fireblade for thematic reasons. Right now I think the list is bit split between a mechanized infantry, stealth, and Deep strike Battle suit list, and its hard to do all three of those things well, as well as address markerlights.

I agree that it's a bit split, but I'd forgotten that the Ghostkeel and the Sun Shark were supposed to stay. That's why I re-wrote the list with Darkstrider's unit missing. Check out the new list I wrote a few minutes ago, it solves that problem while keeping the Fire Warriors in.

I think in a perfect world I'd also drop the Coldstar and run a single Battalion after adding Pathfinders and more Shield Drones.

User avatar
Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 108

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#8 » Jan 15 2018 11:14

Arka0415 wrote:Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Drone Controller; 4x Gun Drones, 2x Marker Drones (327)


If the main point for the xv8 drop is providing support drones for the XV109, wouldn't I be better off dropping shield drones with them? If I ran them as 2 CIB+ ATS I could save almost enough ( 19 points) for the missiles on the bomber.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#9 » Jan 15 2018 07:36

Draco023 wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Drone Controller; 4x Gun Drones, 2x Marker Drones (327)


If the main point for the xv8 drop is providing support drones for the XV109, wouldn't I be better off dropping shield drones with them? If I ran them as 2 CIB+ ATS I could save almost enough ( 19 points) for the missiles on the bomber.

Shield Drones would definitely be viable too. Mainly they're for blocking turn one alpha strike. You can do Shield Drones on the XV8s too, that would work, but you would be losing firepower output- a whole Y'vahra plus drones plus eight CIBs is going to vaporize whatever's around them. However, if you want to favor the Y'vahra's durability, then Shield Drones could also be affective. The points savings really are good, and if you want that extra Missile Pod then I'd say go for it!

User avatar
Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 108

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#10 » Jan 15 2018 07:45

Either the missile pod, or a marksman for another reliable markerlight in the backfield ( man I miss rail riffles on sniper drones....)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#11 » Jan 15 2018 08:12

Draco023 wrote:Either the missile pod, or a marksman for another reliable markerlight in the backfield ( man I miss rail riffles on sniper drones....)

Here's the list with the points reduction made:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Output Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, Target Lock (150)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Homing Beacon; 2x Shield Drones (126)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Flamers, Target Lock, ATS (179)
Fast Attack - 4x Shield Drones (32)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 1x Missile Pod, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (167)

Total: 1973 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

Feel free to switch Gun/Shield on the drones, but I think that's the minimum you can get it to. No real possibility for five Markerlights, but you can get one Markerlight hit on one or two targets, plus Uplinked Markerlight to launch the Seeker Missiles. I think the Marksman would make your list better overall, but the Missile Pod would make the Sun Shark significantly better.

What do you think?

User avatar
Draco023
Shas'Saal
Posts: 108

Re: Themed list thanks to gifts, 2k points.

Post#12 » Jan 15 2018 08:42

With the limitations and the theme, I think it's great! I'm going with the Marksman, partially for the synergy and partially because I have a kit bash for him I'm rather proud of lol!

Return to “Cadre Building”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests