1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

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Smeik
Shas
Posts: 6

1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#1 » Jan 10 2018 06:48

Hello fellow ATT Members,

im relatively new to 40K and especially to Tau, but since November, when i bought my first Models cheaply from ebay I've read a lot and already had my first two Matches in 8th Edition (i joined a Local 40k fun Tournament-League)
My next enemy will be playing Deathguard, all i have heard about this Faction is that it's slow an resilient (disgusting :P)

the match will be 1500 Points on a 4x4 City-like Board (we've chosen this randomly... :-( )
After a lot of fiddling and refining I've come up with this:

TauEmpire: Outrider Detachment: 496 Pts.
2 HQ
Commander
+ 4 x Fusion blaster, 2 x MV4 Shield Drone

Ethereal, Hover drone

1 Elite
Firesight Marksman

3 Fast Attack
Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone


Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone

TauEmpire: Vanguard Detachment - 1004 Pts.
2 HQ
Commander
+ 4 x Fusion blaster, 2 x MV4 Shield Drone

Cadre Fireblade

3 Elite
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits, Homin beacon
+ Stealth Shas'vre, Burst cannon, 1 x Drone controller
+ Stealth Shas'ui, Burst cannon
+ Stealth Shas'ui, Burst cannon

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
+ Crisis Shas'vre, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Fusion blaster, Drone controller -> 8 x MV1 Gun Drone

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
+ Crisis Shas'vre, 3 x Flamer
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 3 x Flamer
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Flamer, Drone controller -> 6 x MV1 Gun Drone


I've split the Army in 2 Deatchments (Vanguard and Outrider) which results in 5 CP's. I heavily considered a battalion Deatchment for more CP, but could not make enough room for the Troops as i wanted to field as much Dakka as possible.

The General Plan is to Set up the Drones in two or three Big Blops giving "cover" to Cadre and the Ethereal.

The Stealthsuits will be placed somewhere near the biggest blop of enemy units so their beacon will help the Flamer-Crisis-Suits to burn disgusting Demons the turn they get on the Battlefield.

The other Crisis-Squad will also Mantastrike and aim for Heavy Infantry.

I'm realtively unsure who will be my Lord of War. Perhaps Fireblade, Firesight or the Ethereal.

-Since Fireblade will be Set up between the Drone Blobs, together with the Ethereal, he should survive pretty long.
-The Firesight Marksman will sit somewhere in my Backline hidden on top of a Building to provide a resilient Markerlight for hopefully the whole Match.
-The Ethereals task is to help the Drones when they have to take Moralchecks.
-The Commanders will possibly Mantastrike behind enemy lines, so they can grill any Tank/Mortarion/Drone, so they will probably die at some point.

I also want to take the new Stratagem which will possibly give some free CP...
Any other suggestions in this direction?

What do you guys Think of my List?
I have a lot more Models in my collection so i can change in any direction :)
If i forgot something feel free to ask.
(Sorry for any Grammar mistakes --> native German here)


so far
Smeik
You win in battles with the timing in the Void born of the timing of cunning by knowing the enemies' timing - Musashi

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'Saal
Posts: 79

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#2 » Jan 10 2018 08:20

Hi Smeik! Glad you're enjoying the game so far!

This is looking like a fairly solid list at the moment but there are a few changes I think we could make that would add a whole lot more punch to it!

TauEmpire: Outrider Detachment: 496 Pts.
2 HQ
Commander
+ 4 x Fusion blaster, 2 x MV4 Shield Drone


This is an excellent choice, but by now I think we all know how effective our Quad Fusion Commanders are :D

Ethereal, Hover drone

1 Elite
Firesight Marksman


These two are ok choices, but the Ethereal isn't actually going to benefit you that much with the current army. His Invocation of Elements ability only affects infantry and battlesuits, so it looks like the drones don't get buffed by him which is a bit of a waste. Let's take him out for now and see what we can do for the points. The firesight marksman is alright, he's not optimal but it's still a pretty durable and accurate markerlight for you. Were you intending him to buff your drones accuracy? Because his particular buff only works for sniper drones!

3 Fast Attack
Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone


Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones
9 x MV1 Gun Drone, 1 x MV7 Marker Drone


Plenty of drones is always a brilliant choice, so this is a great start. Drones are pretty susceptible to morale however, and will take heavy losses in the morale phase with such big squads. I know the ethereal was a way around that via the buff to leadership, but this can be accomplished simply by making them multiple small squads (MSU). So here you could split them down to 6 squads of 5 which is gunna help you in morale and can also force some inefficient fire from your opponent.

TauEmpire: Vanguard Detachment - 1004 Pts.
2 HQ
Commander
+ 4 x Fusion blaster, 2 x MV4 Shield Drone

Cadre Fireblade


Solid choices. Fireblade + gun drones is amazing.

3 Elite
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits, Homin beacon
+ Stealth Shas'vre, Burst cannon, 1 x Drone controller
+ Stealth Shas'ui, Burst cannon
+ Stealth Shas'ui, Burst cannon

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
+ Crisis Shas'vre, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Fusion blaster, Drone controller -> 8 x MV1 Gun Drone

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
+ Crisis Shas'vre, 3 x Flamer
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 3 x Flamer
+ Crisis Shas'ui, 2 x Flamer, Drone controller -> 6 x MV1 Gun Drone


This is all looking pretty good! Just a little fat to trim and you can get a few extra points I think. Stealth suits are great, I'd leave them as is. They'll presumably drop a beacon and link up with the fireblade + gun drones for the Drone Controller to take effect.

The Ion Crisis suits need a little weapon change I think. The CIB is one of our best guns, and it is made all the more powerful with an ATS. Mixing the plasma rifles in with them provides you with a tiny bit more effectiveness against plague marines, but at the cost of making your effective range 12" and reducing effectiveness against bigger targets by quite a lot. Also, taking 4 suits is generally considered non-optimal. For reasons I don't really know but it has been explained to me before. If someone else has a good explanation then I'm all ears! Anyway, I'd run the Ion crisis team with 2 CIB + ATS w/ 6 Gun drones. Skipping the drones controller might seem drastic, but you have plenty of other firepower for forcing saves elsewhere. This should be a team dedicated to putting the hurt to entrenched enemies on objectives, which drones aren't going to be much use at, even with a DC. The Fusion blasters on the crisis are also really inefficient. They rarely do much and would be better served on another commander.

The flamer team is yet another great choice, however for this army and considering your opponent, is maybe a bit redundant. As I said above, you have heaps of anti-infantry firepower with your 30 drones + accompanying crisis drones. These will suffice for wrecking poxwalkers/plaguebearers. I think the list needs a bit more anti heavy-infantry. Switching this squad to either another CIB + ATS squad or a 9x plasma rifle squad would really help on this front. It also lets you use your homing beacon for a commander rather than the flamers. It puts a lot less requirement on the whole tactic depending on your stealth suits living. Even with 9 flamers, you inflict 2.333 casualties on plague marines. Assuming 1 markerlight token, 9x Plasma averages at 3.866, whereas 6x CIB + ATS inflicts 3.1146. If you manage 5 tokens, then 9x plasma will kill 5.185, and CIB's will kill 4.148. However, the CIB's will be MUCH more effective at hurting vehicles/hellbrutes etc. Any multi wound model will be hurt more by CIB's when you overcharge. I'd recommend one 2 x CIB + ATS team, and one 9 x Plasma Rifle team. That way, you have one unit dedicated to killing entrenched plague marines, and one unit that can be your swiss army knife. Able to help commanders kill vehicles or switch to helping mop up infantry.

When we reduce the army down a bit by switching to a 3 man crisis team of 9 Plasma rifles and the other being a 3 man with 6 x CIB + 3 ATS, remove the ethereal and Firesight marksman, and split down the drones, we end up saving 182 points. This can be used to get some pathfinders, and strike teams to make up a battalion and hold all your backline objectives while your army advances forward. Or, you could get another commander! I'd actually recommend the extra infantry. The extra bodies are nice and I always try to play by the golden rule of " play the objective". Make sure you hold those objectives and you should do well. The extra bodies also net you a lot of extra markerlights to help get 5 tokens on your preferred crisis target. If you remove 3 drones, you can afford 2 x 5 pathfinder teams and 3 x 5 strike teams. This can be used to make the battalion!

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text! Hope any of this help!

Let me know what you think!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#3 » Jan 10 2018 09:07

Shas'O R'kai's suggestions are perfect. Add some Infantry for the Battalion, split the Gun Drones down, drop the Ethereal, and change the XV8 loadouts a bit. Let me write the list here for the record:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (115)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (275)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1499 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Personally I'm not a fan of Plasma Rifles, as they're too specialized, but I have one worry that this list can't really address. What if the Death Guard army in question isn't Plague Marine spam, but rather fields Great Unclean Ones, Daemon Princes, maybe Mortarion? In that case the Plasma unit might be less-than-useful. If you're interested in stacking more points into the XV8 squads, here's what I'd do:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 1497 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Just another idea. What do you think?

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Smeik
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#4 » Jan 10 2018 12:00

Wow! Ok, so at first i have to thank both of you for your effort and quick and thought through responses! I'm pretty stoked. :biggrin:

I totally agree to the R'Kai's point about the Drones Squadsize and the use of the Ethereal --> dropped him
I actually don't own a Firesight Marksman, but was planning on kitbashing my own iteration so this was kind of a motivation for me doing so --> dropped him regardless (the match is next Friday, so i won't make it till then anyway)

To the Crisis Suits:
I've read somewhere on this Forum that the optimal Squadsize is 3, but i wanted a little more fleshed out Squad so the FB/DC 'vre would survive long enough to kill something.
You are definetly right about the Flamer Squad an its redundancy though.
R'kai you have pointed out a great point about the Plasma Squad and i really like what you have made out of the list.
But in the first example you take 2 CIB/Suit in the second it's 3? Anyway i've read somewhere that 3 CIB do a little more wounds in total but 2CIB+ATS is a little more points efficient is that correct? --> long story short i went for 2CIB+ATS 'uis and 2CIB+DC on the 'vre

With all the wiggleroom both of you helped me to get, I even squeezed in 5 More Gundrones and a Breachersquad (of which i hope that it will somewhat fly under the Radar and kill stuff :roll: )

Updated List:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 2x ATS Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (303)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 2x ATS Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (303)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Troops - 6x Breachers (48)

What do you think?
You win in battles with the timing in the Void born of the timing of cunning by knowing the enemies' timing - Musashi

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#5 » Jan 10 2018 07:36

Smeik wrote:But in the first example you take 2 CIB/Suit in the second it's 3? Anyway i've read somewhere that 3 CIB do a little more wounds in total but 2CIB+ATS is a little more points efficient is that correct? --> long story short i went for 2CIB+ATS 'uis and 2CIB+DC on the 'vre

3xCIB can be a viable option too when you need the option to engage light infantry. If you end up facing something like Typhus/Poxwalker spam the higher CIB volume will really help. 2xCIB+ATS is viable too against heavier infantry, but personally I'm not a fan of the mixed AP values caused by having both ATS and DC in the unit.

Smeik wrote:With all the wiggleroom both of you helped me to get, I even squeezed in 5 More Gundrones and a Breachersquad (of which i hope that it will somewhat fly under the Radar and kill stuff :roll: )

More Gun Drones is good, but the small Breacher squad I have a hard time imagining will actually do anything. More Gun Drones could be a better addition as it gives you even more mid-range skirmish power.

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Smeik
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#6 » Jan 11 2018 05:10

Alright then i think we've found a pretty streamlined list here now:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 1x Shield Drone (50) <-- Lord of War
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

1497 Points ; 7CP ; Battalion + Vanguard Detachment

Thank you for all the effort! I will Post a Batrep of the Match in about 2 Weeks!

so far

Smeik
You win in battles with the timing in the Void born of the timing of cunning by knowing the enemies' timing - Musashi

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#7 » Jan 11 2018 05:15

Smeik wrote:Alright then i think we've found a pretty streamlined list here now:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 1x Shield Drone (50) <-- Lord of War
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

1497 Points ; 7CP ; Battalion + Vanguard Detachment

Thank you for all the effort! I will Post a Batrep of the Match in about 2 Weeks!


Looks like fun! It's a wacky number of Gun Drones for a 1500-point list, but I'm sure it'll be effective. One thing I'll mention is the single Shield Drone is only a liability really, since the Fireblade will be with the Gun Drones anyway.

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Smeik
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#8 » Jan 11 2018 07:24

yeah, i just couldn't figure out what to do with the last 11 Pts. The Options i had in mind:

obviously 1 more Gundrone ;)
or
1 Firewarrior
1 Pathfinder (with ion)
1 Pulse Accelerator drone to go with the other drones
1 Markerdrone

in the end i just thought: why not give the Lord of War a little more protection?... :D
You win in battles with the timing in the Void born of the timing of cunning by knowing the enemies' timing - Musashi

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#9 » Jan 11 2018 07:39

Smeik wrote:yeah, i just couldn't figure out what to do with the last 11 Pts. The Options i had in mind:

obviously 1 more Gundrone ;)
or
1 Firewarrior
1 Pathfinder (with ion)
1 Pulse Accelerator drone to go with the other drones
1 Markerdrone

in the end i just thought: why not give the Lord of War a little more protection?... :D

Here's the problem- the Fireblade is your Warlord, sure, but he also is going to be surrounded by 30 drones. He wouldn't be meaningfully better protected by having 31 drones rather than 30. And, in fact, your opponent can shoot the single drone and score First Blood really easily. That's the issue. If you want to add a single Shield Drone, feel free to add it to one of the Tactical Drone teams though!

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Smeik
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#10 » Jan 11 2018 09:14

good point! Maybe it's simply better to add one more gundrone and let the Squad of 6 Drones accompany Cadre Fireblade as "Bodyguards"
Double/Triple Wrap like
(=Drones

( (Cadre) )

:biggrin:
You win in battles with the timing in the Void born of the timing of cunning by knowing the enemies' timing - Musashi

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 212

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#11 » Jan 11 2018 01:55

I'd make sure to fit some plasma in there. Plasma are hands down the best weapon to go against Plague Marines. I'm not sure what you're facing, but I've yet to see a Death Guard player sidelining any of those beautifully disgusting new models. Two QFC should be able to take care of a Bloat Drone or other vehicle each turn, you can try your luck thinning out terminators with overcharged ion (still wounding on 3+ unfortunately, but the D3 damage can take the termies down faster), but the plasma is reserved for rapid firing into the flanks of the plague marines.

The Drones can mop up the poxwalkers or light infantry. Also, that stealth team should be a low enough threat after your Crisis teams drop in that he can serve as the DC relatively unmolested. Especially if you can find a good spot in cover for him. They are very frustrating to shoot at.

If you go to 3 suits in both Crisis Teams with all plasma in one and all CIB in the other then you should have some points left over for other things like dropping the Ethereal and picking up another QFC. Also, recommend splitting your drone squads into smaller units to avoid losing additional drones to abysmal leadership. I know you had the Ethereal there for that, but reducing the squad size does that for free as long as you remove drones smartly.

Your drones should really be up in the fight with the suits. Is the Cadre there to double tap? Or is he and the Marksman there as markerlight support? If so, you can switch those guys both out for markerlight drones and achieve almost the same hit percentages (which also gives you more wounds to soak up if needed). It also give you a better chance at hitting 5 if there is something that absolutely must die.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#12 » Jan 11 2018 07:03

CDR_Farsight wrote:The Drones can mop up the poxwalkers or light infantry. Also, that stealth team should be a low enough threat after your Crisis teams drop in that he can serve as the DC relatively unmolested. Especially if you can find a good spot in cover for him. They are very frustrating to shoot at.

Rememeber that Poxwalker armies can be very, very deadly. They may look flimsy but they're immune to morale, can easily combo to make squads of over 100 models, can be reinforced for free, can be buffed to S7/T5 or higher, and can't be shot if they're not the closest models, leading to very possible and very competitive armies that just combo cultists/poxwalkers for unlimited T5 poxwalker models. Not to be underestimated.

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CDR_Farsight
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Posts: 212

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#13 » Jan 11 2018 07:50

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:The Drones can mop up the poxwalkers or light infantry. Also, that stealth team should be a low enough threat after your Crisis teams drop in that he can serve as the DC relatively unmolested. Especially if you can find a good spot in cover for him. They are very frustrating to shoot at.

Rememeber that Poxwalker armies can be very, very deadly. They may look flimsy but they're immune to morale, can easily combo to make squads of over 100 models, can be reinforced for free, can be buffed to S7/T5 or higher, and can't be shot if they're not the closest models, leading to very possible and very competitive armies that just combo cultists/poxwalkers for unlimited T5 poxwalker models. Not to be underestimated.


This is all true; however, that is an a-hole list to begin with. If someone brings that out in a casual setting, I tell them to get the f out of my house (that's where I casually game). If they bring it in a competitive setting, then they should be prepared for me to dance around scoring objectives without actually killing aanything until I've spread his army out far enough that A.) He cant make free powalkers B.) He can't keep the buffed unit from being targeted. It costs him CPs and psychic tests every time he does it, and if I don't target it or units within 7 inches, then I don't care if it is S7 T5 and spawns more poxwalkers when I kill things within 7".

If they are just using it moderately (1 unit of poxwalkers and some cultists and Death Guard), then there are plenty of other things to target until he is either out of CP or really far behind on points. ALso, if you know that's something your opponent likes to do (noticeable if he takes cultists and poxwalker with psycher combo) then nuke his poxwalkers first turn while they are still weak (only if you go first).
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2748

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#14 » Jan 11 2018 08:48

CDR_Farsight wrote:This is all true; however, that is an a-hole list to begin with. If someone brings that out in a casual setting, I tell them to get the f out of my house (that's where I casually game). If they bring it in a competitive setting, then they should be prepared for me to dance around scoring objectives without actually killing aanything until I've spread his army out far enough that A.) He cant make free powalkers B.) He can't keep the buffed unit from being targeted. It costs him CPs and psychic tests every time he does it, and if I don't target it or units within 7 inches, then I don't care if it is S7 T5 and spawns more poxwalkers when I kill things within 7".

If they are just using it moderately (1 unit of poxwalkers and some cultists and Death Guard), then there are plenty of other things to target until he is either out of CP or really far behind on points. ALso, if you know that's something your opponent likes to do (noticeable if he takes cultists and poxwalker with psycher combo) then nuke his poxwalkers first turn while they are still weak (only if you go first).

True, it's an obnoxious list. I know a guy who uses it in pick-up games, very nasty. Doesn't help that games are by and large played on 4'x4' tables in my local meta so the blobs can basically cover the entire thing.

With the right tactics you can dance around it, but in an objective game (or, god forbid, The Relic) it can be quite powerful.

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 212

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#15 » Jan 11 2018 09:12

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:This is all true; however, that is an a-hole list to begin with. If someone brings that out in a casual setting, I tell them to get the f out of my house (that's where I casually game). If they bring it in a competitive setting, then they should be prepared for me to dance around scoring objectives without actually killing aanything until I've spread his army out far enough that A.) He cant make free powalkers B.) He can't keep the buffed unit from being targeted. It costs him CPs and psychic tests every time he does it, and if I don't target it or units within 7 inches, then I don't care if it is S7 T5 and spawns more poxwalkers when I kill things within 7".

If they are just using it moderately (1 unit of poxwalkers and some cultists and Death Guard), then there are plenty of other things to target until he is either out of CP or really far behind on points. ALso, if you know that's something your opponent likes to do (noticeable if he takes cultists and poxwalker with psycher combo) then nuke his poxwalkers first turn while they are still weak (only if you go first).

True, it's an obnoxious list. I know a guy who uses it in pick-up games, very nasty. Doesn't help that games are by and large played on 4'x4' tables in my local meta so the blobs can basically cover the entire thing.

With the right tactics you can dance around it, but in an objective game (or, god forbid, The Relic) it can be quite powerful.



I absolutely refuse to play relic if we roll it. I hated it in 7th with unkillable deathstars, and I only had to play it one time in 8th to realize it is even more broken in this edition where characters can pick it up and never be targeted.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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MNGamer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 109

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#16 » Jan 11 2018 11:01

CDR_Farsight wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:This is all true; however, that is an a-hole list to begin with. If someone brings that out in a casual setting, I tell them to get the f out of my house (that's where I casually game). If they bring it in a competitive setting, then they should be prepared for me to dance around scoring objectives without actually killing aanything until I've spread his army out far enough that A.) He cant make free powalkers B.) He can't keep the buffed unit from being targeted. It costs him CPs and psychic tests every time he does it, and if I don't target it or units within 7 inches, then I don't care if it is S7 T5 and spawns more poxwalkers when I kill things within 7".

If they are just using it moderately (1 unit of poxwalkers and some cultists and Death Guard), then there are plenty of other things to target until he is either out of CP or really far behind on points. ALso, if you know that's something your opponent likes to do (noticeable if he takes cultists and poxwalker with psycher combo) then nuke his poxwalkers first turn while they are still weak (only if you go first).

True, it's an obnoxious list. I know a guy who uses it in pick-up games, very nasty. Doesn't help that games are by and large played on 4'x4' tables in my local meta so the blobs can basically cover the entire thing.

With the right tactics you can dance around it, but in an objective game (or, god forbid, The Relic) it can be quite powerful.



I absolutely refuse to play relic if we roll it. I hated it in 7th with unkillable deathstars, and I only had to play it one time in 8th to realize it is even more broken in this edition where characters can pick it up and never be targeted.


The guy i play it with agreed to use a special rule: Whenever a model picks up the relic it becomes illuminated by the sheer awesomeness of the artifact, characters that pick up a relic lose the closest model targeting rule.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 212

Re: 1500 Pts. vs DeathGuard CC welcome!

Post#17 » Jan 11 2018 11:28

MNGamer wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:True, it's an obnoxious list. I know a guy who uses it in pick-up games, very nasty. Doesn't help that games are by and large played on 4'x4' tables in my local meta so the blobs can basically cover the entire thing.

With the right tactics you can dance around it, but in an objective game (or, god forbid, The Relic) it can be quite powerful.



I absolutely refuse to play relic if we roll it. I hated it in 7th with unkillable deathstars, and I only had to play it one time in 8th to realize it is even more broken in this edition where characters can pick it up and never be targeted.


The guy i play it with agreed to use a special rule: Whenever a model picks up the relic it becomes illuminated by the sheer awesomeness of the artifact, characters that pick up a relic lose the closest model targeting rule.


That seems like a good house rule!
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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