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Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 10:11
by CDR_Farsight
This is the list I've been running the most, and besides the few times the dice gods have been out to lunch during my turn, it has served me pretty well.

I call it Shadow of the Manta because it relies on Stealth suits hiding in the shadows and delivering precision strikes from Crisis teams and Commanders.

Vanguard Detachment
Shadowsun: with her Drones
Stealth Team: with Homing Beacon, Shas'vre with DC, 2x Suits with ATS, and 2x Shield Drones
Stealth Team: with Homing Beacon, Shas'vre with DC, 2x Suits with ATS, and 2x Shield Drones
Stealth Team: with Homing Beacon, Shas'vre with DC, 2x Suits with ATS, and 2x Shield Drones

Vanguard Detachment
QFC: with 2x Shield Drones
QFC: with 2x Shield Drones
Crisis Bodyguard Team: 4x Bodyguard with 3x Flamers, 6 Gun Drones and 2 Shield Drones
Crisis Team: 3x Suits with 3 CIBs, 6 Gun Drones
Crisis Team: 3x Suits with 3 CIBs, 6 Gun Drones

At 9 Drops, I normally get a +1 to the roll-off, but because so much of my force is in reserve, even going second isn't bad. If it is not a psychic heavy army, I actually prefer it. Stealth suits are stupidly difficult to shoot out of cover and Shadowsun gives me 2 shots at Kauyon which increases my effectiveness in turns 2 and 3 if I position correctly.

The idea is that I generally advance the Stealth suits to get them in the right place on a flank for the beacons. I then Drop the 2x QFCs and Flamer team within 8" of juicy targets and put the CIB teams at around 12" with the drones all bunched together for Saviour Protocols. Shadowsun hunkers down in the middle to be ready to call Kauyon turn 2. Most of the time, I can completely destroy a flank, leaving me relatively unharrassed by CC attempts.

The Flamer team screens the enemy units coming from the middle of their deployment line, and the CIB teams circle the wagon in the back. Having the flamers in front means they are generally the closest to any charge from non-reserve units, so they are almost always an assault target, and I get to burn some things up. Also, if they do get tied up, I can move them out and not waste the efficiency of my turn 2 Kauyon.

One drawback from this strategy is that I don't really start moving on objectives until turn 4, and the few games I've lost that weren't due to cold dice were because of turn by turn objective scoring with a small enemy unit hiding in the opposite corner to avoid a wipe.

All of that being said, I've been diced horribly twice using this list as well. Once I only put 4 wounds on a Ork Wartrukk shooting 10 Fusion shots (8 at half range). The rest of my force targeted a mob of 20 Stormboys....killing 5. It was still a close game due to proper allocation of Saviour Protocols, but he won in the end by grabbing the relic with a character so I couldn't target him and outrunning my shooting. I ended the game with a QFC, 3 Gun Drones, 1 CIB Crisis Suit, and 5 Stealth Suits. He ended the game with 2 Boys, a Warboss on bike with 1 wound, and a Wierdboy.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 11:06
by BibiFloris
Looks like a interseting tactic

You are ar were you may only manta strike 1 unit near a homing bracon a turn?

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 11:20
by CDR_Farsight
BibiFloris wrote:Looks like a interseting tactic

You are ar were you may only manta strike 1 unit near a homing bracon a turn?


Yep! I have 3 homing beacons. The Flamer Suits use one and the 2 QFC use the other two. The CIBs do not use homing beacons.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 12:26
by BibiFloris
CDR_Farsight wrote:
BibiFloris wrote:Looks like a interseting tactic

You are ar were you may only manta strike 1 unit near a homing bracon a turn?


Yep! I have 3 homing beacons. The Flamer Suits use one and the 2 QFC use the other two. The CIBs do not use homing beacons.


Regardles of amount one homing beacon may be used per turn if I am not mistaken.

Diffrent qesution did this list include farshigt at some point or is it just a name?

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 12:33
by CDR_Farsight
BibiFloris wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:
BibiFloris wrote:Looks like a interseting tactic

You are ar were you may only manta strike 1 unit near a homing bracon a turn?


Yep! I have 3 homing beacons. The Flamer Suits use one and the 2 QFC use the other two. The CIBs do not use homing beacons.


Regardles of amount one homing beacon may be used per turn if I am not mistaken.

Diffrent qesution did this list include farshigt at some point or is it just a name?


You can use as many homing beacons as you have, but each homing beacon can only bring in one unit. There is nothing in the homing beacon rules that even implies only 1 homing beacon per turn or per game.

Check my username...that will answer why it's called Farsight: Shadow of the Manta. Everything I have is painted in FSE colors as well.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 08:01
by Aspiring Commander
CDR_Farsight wrote:At 9 Drops, I normally get a +1 to the roll-off, but because so much of my force is in reserve, even going second isn't bad.



assuming only the stealth component starts on the board, isn't it an illegal deployment? Or do you have a crisis Team that starts in your deployment zone?

It might be worth dropping the 4th body guard for some pathfinders or a marksman/fireblade, so you'd get to an even 10 drops and you can have 5 hiding in the sky?

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 08:45
by Arka0415
Aspiring Commander wrote:assuming only the stealth component starts on the board, isn't it an illegal deployment? Or do you have a crisis Team that starts in your deployment zone?

It might be worth dropping the 4th body guard for some pathfinders or a marksman/fireblade, so you'd get to an even 10 drops and you can have 5 hiding in the sky?

The list has 9 drops, but 8 units on the field and 5 in Manta Strike reserve. Deployed units with drones count as two units on the table, but only one in reserve! :D

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:09
by CDR_Farsight
Arka0415 wrote:
Aspiring Commander wrote:assuming only the stealth component starts on the board, isn't it an illegal deployment? Or do you have a crisis Team that starts in your deployment zone?

It might be worth dropping the 4th body guard for some pathfinders or a marksman/fireblade, so you'd get to an even 10 drops and you can have 5 hiding in the sky?

The list has 9 drops, but 8 units on the field and 5 in Manta Strike reserve. Deployed units with drones count as two units on the table, but only one in reserve! :D


BINGO!!! :P

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:14
by Aspiring Commander
Arka0415 wrote:The list has 9 drops, but 8 units on the field and 5 in Manta Strike reserve. Deployed units with drones count as two units on the table, but only one in reserve! :D


Ah. That would make sense :) Carry on then! :P

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:16
by Arka0415
CDR_Farsight wrote:BINGO!!! :P

This is what I do in small Patrol lists. Two squads of infantry on the ground, one with a pair of Gun Drones, then three Manta Strike units with drones. Three on the ground and three in the air, but for all practical purposes, it's two on the ground and six in the air!

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:17
by Arka0415
BibiFloris wrote:Diffrent qesution did this list include farshigt at some point or is it just a name?

Ha, just realized why you asked this.

This "Farsight" list not only does not include Farsight, but more importantly it's a T'au Sept army with Commander Shadowsun!

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:24
by CDR_Farsight
Arka0415 wrote:
BibiFloris wrote:Diffrent qesution did this list include farshigt at some point or is it just a name?

Ha, just realized why you asked this.

This "Farsight" list not only does not include Farsight, but more importantly it's a T'au Sept army with Commander Shadowsun!


Actually, thematically, it's a farsight force coming to save Shadowsun's butt for about the millionth time. CDR Farsight doesn't have nearly as much against Shadowsun as Shadowsun has against him.

And the commander that drops in to save her is actually her daughter (unauthorized genetic pairing/half-clone really) who rolls around with CDR Farsight and his crew to keep the Ethereals away from her.

I got stories :P

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:30
by Muaddib195
Excerpt from Homing Beacon Rule: "If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike."

The key words that I read in the rule are "any friendly homing beacons" and "one of you <SEPT> units". I've assumed that the rule is saying that no matter how many beacons you have on the table, you can only bring in one unit. Have I been handicapping myself with an over-restrictive interpretation?


EDIT:
The 8e rulebook FAQ v1.1 also has this response:
Q: For the purposes of the Tactical Reserves matched play rule,
do units that act separately after they have been set up (e.g. Mek
Gunz and their Grot Crew, T’au Battlesuits and their Drones,
units that have the Vehicle Squadron ability, etc.) count as
being a single unit, or several units?
A: Such units are a single unit for the purposes of the
Tactical Reserves rule.

Again, I took a broad interpretation on this FAQ to conclude that drones don't count towards the number of units on the table OR in reserve, if they would normally detach from another unit. I had to rewrite my list in light of this FAQ, because I was planning to use detached drones to count towards the minimum number of units on the table.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 09:36
by CDR_Farsight
Muaddib195 wrote:Excerpt from Homing Beacon Rule: "If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike."

The key words that I read in the rule are "any friendly homing beacons" and "one of you <SEPT> units". I've assumed that the rule is saying that no matter how many beacons you have on the table, you can only bring in one unit. Have I been handicapping myself with an over-restrictive interpretation?


You've been severely handicapping yourself.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 10:28
by Arka0415
I'm pretty sure that, no matter how many Homing Beacons you deploy, one unit can use one Homing Beacon per turn. So multiple Homing Beacons just offer redundancy.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 11 2018 11:51
by CDR_Farsight
Muaddib195 wrote:Excerpt from Homing Beacon Rule: "If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike."

The key words that I read in the rule are "any friendly homing beacons" and "one of you <SEPT> units". I've assumed that the rule is saying that no matter how many beacons you have on the table, you can only bring in one unit. Have I been handicapping myself with an over-restrictive interpretation?


EDIT:
The 8e rulebook FAQ v1.1 also has this response:
Q: For the purposes of the Tactical Reserves matched play rule,
do units that act separately after they have been set up (e.g. Mek
Gunz and their Grot Crew, T’au Battlesuits and their Drones,
units that have the Vehicle Squadron ability, etc.) count as
being a single unit, or several units?
A: Such units are a single unit for the purposes of the
Tactical Reserves rule.

Again, I took a broad interpretation on this FAQ to conclude that drones don't count towards the number of units on the table OR in reserve, if they would normally detach from another unit. I had to rewrite my list in light of this FAQ, because I was planning to use detached drones to count towards the minimum number of units on the table.


The 50/50 rule is easily fixable if that truly is the case. I’ll just take my drones out of the Stealth squads and put them in their own squad....boom 50/50.

I (along with every format I’ve seen played) interpret the HB rule to go something like this. Also, neither GW staff, rules writers, nor play testers batted an eye when I did this so I don’t think the intent is to limit it to 1 unit per game/turn...just poor rules writing.

4 units in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy one of four units then destroy homing beacon
Now 3 units in reserve
Are there still any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy second unit and destroy beacon
Now 2nd unit in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy 3rd unit and destroy homing beacon
Now last unit in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? No
Deploy outside of 9” then
The end

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 12 2018 04:13
by Arka0415
Muaddib195 wrote:The 8e rulebook FAQ v1.1 also has this response:
Q: For the purposes of the Tactical Reserves matched play rule,
do units that act separately after they have been set up (e.g. Mek
Gunz and their Grot Crew, T’au Battlesuits and their Drones,
units that have the Vehicle Squadron ability, etc.) count as
being a single unit, or several units?
A: Such units are a single unit for the purposes of the
Tactical Reserves rule.

Shucks, guess I wasn't doing that correctly. I'll update my 750-point list then.

CDR_Farsight wrote:I (along with every format I’ve seen played) interpret the HB rule to go something like this. Also, neither GW staff, rules writers, nor play testers batted an eye when I did this so I don’t think the intent is to limit it to 1 unit per game/turn...just poor rules writing.

4 units in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy one of four units then destroy homing beacon
Now 3 units in reserve
Are there still any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy second unit and destroy beacon
Now 2nd unit in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? Yes
Deploy 3rd unit and destroy homing beacon
Now last unit in reserve
Are there any homing beacons? No
Deploy outside of 9” then
The end

The flow would go like this:

Are there any Homing Beacons? Yes.
Has a unit performed a Low-Altidude Drop? No.
Deploy one of four units then destroy homing beacon.
Now 3 units in reserve.
Are there still any Homing Beacons? Yes.
Has a unit performed a Low-Altidude Drop? Yes.
Deploy remaining units outside of 9”.
End.

Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Posted: Jan 12 2018 04:42
by BibiFloris
Muaddib195 wrote:Excerpt from Homing Beacon Rule: "If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike."

The key words that I read in the rule are "any friendly homing beacons" and "one of you <SEPT> units". I've assumed that the rule is saying that no matter how many beacons you have on the table, you can only bring in one unit. Have I been handicapping myself with an over-restrictive interpretation?


The rule states: "If there are ANY homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, ONE of your <SEPT> units. may etc.."
This is the same way of writing that is used so that drone controllers don't stake. (or any similar aura).
RAW: You may only homing beacon one unit a turn regardless of units in manta hold and homing beacons on the battlefield (if there is at least one of each of course).
RAI: At our local gaming club this is the way we always played it. So I am not sure what the intent from GW is.
Have you played against/with any of the person you mentioned or is it a battrep that you could point me towards?