Cgreeves wrote:I think I’m going to be up against a dreadknight on Wednesday. I think he is putting his hq in a dread from what I’ve heard...
Cgreeves wrote:Yuck! That’s horrendous!
I feel like I should be just peppering that with fire
Or getting the alpha strike at all costs
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I can tell you that he'll have an unholy(holy?) amount of BS3+ S4 shots, so expect drones to die in droves.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Try to keep your commanders away form the dreadknight if you can. The only realistic way it'll manage to kill them if they have drone support is in combat. You can lead him on a merry chase by teasing him with your juicy fusion commander while advancing away and taking other objectives.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I'd actually recommend taking a shield generator on the fusion commander. Having that 4++ inv save has kept my fusion commanders alive for an extra turn or 2 many many times. At higher points it's not as worth it, but at 500 it could be the difference between outlasting him and dying to a lucky charge.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:As for the 2++ inv save, I wouldn't worry about that quite as much. If he's taking a dreadknight grandmaster then that's about 55% of his points. He's not going to have many command points at all at that points level considering how expensive GK units are.
Arka0415 wrote:What are good GK builds looking like these days? Razorback and MSU spam?
Arka0415 wrote:The Dreadknight can be equipped with wargear that gives it a long move characteristic, right? If the GK player uses a jump Dreadknight I think it'd be able to catch a Fusion Commander after only one turn of shooting, since the Fusion Commander would only be 18" away.
Arka0415 wrote:Didn't even think about that- great suggestion in low-points games. Makes sense too, since the Fusion Commander will probably be the main focus-fire target.
Arka0415 wrote:I'm assuming the GK player will just use it when it counts, but I guess it would be possible to catch the Dreadknight without it on turn 1. If the GK player only uses it twice, do you think it'd be possible to really ignore the Dreadknight for two turns? They have good shooting if I recall correctly.
I played GK Paladins back in 6th Edition as part of my old Inquisition army, but I never got on board with Dreadknights, so I don't know too much about them.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I wouldn't be too worried about this opponent, since Grey Knights really struggle in low points games.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:This was the case in 7th! In 8th however, fortunately(unfortunately for me!) it has lost that ability. The gear exists, but merely lets it Deep strike. So the Fusion commander should be safe.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:You're quite right in saying that it's more than likely to catch him without it on turn 1. After looking at the points, I don't think its possible for him to get more than 3 CP in 500pt games if he insists on using the GM DK. So he probably only gets this once in the game! The dreadknight does have pretty good shooting, but it's not amazing. The guns will do multi damage (either 2 or D3) but are only -1 AP or AP 0. It's best against heavy infantry really so will be slightly wasted on drones. Once the PA squads are removed, you'll have little to fear.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:After looking at potential GK builds for 500 points, the only viable way to go is MSU PA squads. Everything else is just too expensive. You could go with terminators for the 2+ save but you lose 50% firepower for that.
Arka0415 wrote:Huh. Personally I've never seen GK in battle at anything below 1500 points. I figured they'd be stronger in low points games, since you can easily field things against which there's almost no counter, like Land Raiders or Stormravens. Without a tailored list most players would be very hard-pressed to do anything against a Stormraven in a tiny game, I think.
Arka0415 wrote:Good to hear. I didn't bother to continue with my Inqusition army after it's outright removal in 8th Edition, so I didn't read the other GK rules too closely once I'd figured that out. I think Grey Knights and Space Wolves are the two armies I really don't know too well.
Arka0415 wrote:Gotcha. Honestly that makes sense. I'm more imagining a "do-or-die" situation where the Dreadknight needs to die, but has a 2++ save. One Bolter fire gets rid of the drones those multi-damage weapons should be able to bring down a Commander.
Arka0415 wrote:I can see that being viable. MSU single-wound infantry is vulnerable to S5 firepower though, so I can see why Terminators might be a favored choice. After all it doesn't take too many Storm Bolters to clear out Gun Drones.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:It is a bit feast or famine yeah. The 2++ save is good but requires a lot to pull off. In my opinion it's an easy match up for us because we have the most efficient anti large in the game with the Fusion commander. Spread out deployment of drones, Manta the Commanders so that if they get Turn 1 and drop the DK, they'll kill a couple drone squads at most. Then counter drop and fire at the DK if it doesn't have the 2++, otherwise kill the 10 PA Knights. It should be easy to remove 10 PA marines with the drones and both commanders which leaves just the dreadknight for the rest of the game. Then you just split up and take objectives while shooting away. Statistically it only survives for 3 turns assuming that during one of them it takes no damage at all due to the 2++. If the 2++ doesn't go off on the first turn and you fire at it, there's a decent chance it'll die outright. If Tau go first, then drop the CIB commander next to a swarm of drones to help wipe one squad of PA Knights and bait out the dreadknight. Then on turn two, kite back and take objectives while shooting.
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:What do you think of a flamer crisis team rather than the CIB commander? I was just thinking that the organiser said 'no cheese' and taking all drones + commanders seems pretty cheesy! haha
Triple Fusion + Shield Commander w/ 2 shield drones - 163
Double Flamer + ATS Team w/ 6 Gun drones - 252
Gun drones x 5 - 40
Gun drones x 5 - 40
Obviously it's not as great, but it could be a lot of fun to constantly advance and burn things!
Arka0415 wrote:Sounds like a great game plan to me. Honestly if the GK army doesn't have heavy shooting there might not really be a win condition, seeing as a single skirmishing CIB Commander could ruin a big chunk of it. Fun stuff.
Arka0415 wrote:I guess I'm looking at this from the point of view of an escalation tournament- don't want to stock the army with things that will stop being viable past 500 points. For a non-cheese list that would definitely be a fun option though. I assume the league will run on to 1500 or 2000 points?
Cgreeves wrote:We don't need to keep the same list from game to game but I don't want to be that guy who tailors lists for each game, especially since I am complaining about that very thing being done to me.
Arka0415 wrote:Oh, okay! So the "escalation" part is just that the points values for games increase over time?
Cgreeves wrote:Thanks for all the help guys. I’ll be a little disappointed if he does bring something as cheesy when we have been specifically requested not to bring cheesy lists.
It does look like at the moment that club may be snowed off (the joys of living in Scotland ) but I’ll definitely post a battle report after the game.
Cgreeves wrote:I just feel that as I am a returning player I didn't want to be chopping and changing my list all of the time because I didn't want to steam roll the new players who are learning the game. The issue I have is that my next 2 are experienced players who are so used to Tau being a top tier army with lots of trick up its sleeves so they are tailoring lol. So I figured I would turn to you guys to make sure I don't get steam rolled but also to make sure that I'm not being "That Guy"
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:What a small world, I'm also from the land most bonnie!! I'm based in Stirling, where abouts are you from? (if you don't mind me asking!)
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