Demon counter list 2000pts

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zawyvern
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#1 » Jan 18 2018 08:42

Ok, so with the new demon book out the meta seems like it's going to change quite a bit. I modified this list from another I had to include a stormsurge with early warning override. I'll explain set up after the list.

3 detachments: battalion, outrider, super heavy auxiliary … 7 command points
1982 points total

Battalion 830
HQ
Commander 4 fusion blasters
Commander 3 fusion blasters, multi tracker

Troops
Strike team 5 firewarriors w/ pulse rifles
Strike team 5 firewarriors w/ pulse rifles
Strike team 5 firewarriors w/ pulse rifles

Elite
XV9 Hazard Suit x2 4 double burst cannons 2 Advanced Targeting System

Airwing
AX39 Sun Shark bomber - markerlight, missile pod, 2 seeker missiles, 2 MV17 interceptor drones

Outrider 752
HQ
Commander 3 cyclic ion blasters, multi-tracker

Fast Attack
Y'vahra - ionic discharge cannon, phased flamer, flechette pod, target lock, stim injector
Tactical drones - 6 gun drones
Pathfinders - 5 with pulse carbine/markerlights
Pathfinders - 5 with pulse carbine/markerlights
Kroot Hounds - 10
Kroot Hounds - 10

Super Heavy Auxilary 440
KV128 Stormsurge - Pulse blast cannon, cluster rocket system, 2 smart missile systems, 2 burst cannons, 4 destroyer missiles, Advanced Targeting System, Early Warning Override, Shield Generator


You would set up in a refused flank with the stormsurge on the open flank to punish any deep strike. The Y'vahra in a defended position ready to push out and do damage or take objectives. Drones in postion to soak wounds for y'vahra.
A 2 layer screen to the front with hounds at outer leading edge and then strike teams behind.
The fusion commanders held in reserve to strike hard targets, as per usual.
Pathfinders somewhere advantageous to use their markerlights and sit on objectives.
The Sun Shark bomber positioned to drop bombs on flankers or heavy infantry.
XV9 hazards usually will be placed in reserve to manta strike to support flank or help clear screens.

The part I'm least sure about are the xv9s . I wonder if I need to have some more anti heavy infantry. The Y'vahra can't be everywhere.

I could fit in a unit of 3 plasma crisis suits instead. Or could do another Ion commander, plus extra support or chaff units. Just worried about not enough firepower to clear mobs of single wound units. 32 S5 AP-1 1dmgvs 12 S7 AP-1 1dmg + maybe some pulse rifle fire.

But as it is, I think as it is it'll be strong against the meta that will come out in reaction to the new demon codex with their various demon bombs.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3281

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#2 » Jan 18 2018 08:59

I like this idea, but, I think you're missing drones in a lot of places. We can protect the valuable models in this list by adding Gun and Shield Drones to the Commanders and XV9s. Though I agree with you, the list seems to lack heavy anti-infantry firepower since Daemons are likely to bring Plaguebearer mobs or other large groups of infantry.

You could consider dropping the XV9s and adding a bunch more Gun Drones for more screening and anti-infantry firepower. Also, what do you think about leaving the screening job to the Gun Drones, and reducing the Hounds to just a few min-sized groups to block deep strikes?

What do you think?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3281

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#3 » Jan 18 2018 09:16

Here's a quick idea I came up with, modified a little from your list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Multi-Tracker; 2x Gun Drones (148)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Multi-Tracker; 2x Gun Drones (148)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Drone Controller (153)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Ionic Discharge Cannon, Phased Plasma Flamer, Target Lock, ATS (415)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Kroot Hounds (16)
Fast Attack - 4x Kroot Hounds (16)
LoW - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Blastcannon, 2x Burst Cannons, Shield Generator, ATS, EWO (440)

Total: 2003 - Command Points: 9 (1 Battalion Detachment, 3 Outrider Detachments, 1 Super-Heavy Auxiliary)

-

I'm thinking the Sun Shark is ultimately not very effective against Daemons (your best target is Plaguebearers that resist the damage anyway, and flying over a Daemon army is like flying into a nest of Smite spam), and a Drone Controller Commander could be useful to have with all of the screening drones. The CIB Commanders still work as a deep strike force, protected a bit behind Gun Drones, and the Kroot Hounds are just for denial, rather than screening- that job goes to the Gun Drones.

Still very much a rough draft, but what do you think?

zawyvern
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#4 » Jan 19 2018 01:46

Arka0415 wrote:I like this idea, but, I think you're missing drones in a lot of places. … reducing the Hounds to just a few min-sized groups to block deep strikes?
What do you think?


I was thinking about that as well. But I decided since most games are decided by turn 2 or 3, just play the trading game. But using XV9s just to get that ATS bonus, probably not worth it when I can use drones instead.
They're not as tough as the suits, but I'm sure the stormsurge and y'vahra will take a lot of fire.

I want to keep the sunshark. I find it very flexible and valuable at point denial. Really good at taking out Small Units. That's on top of dealing MW to heavy infantry. Like you said smite spam will probably down it… if I'm over aggressive with it.

So I dropped the XV9s I have 2 Ion commanders now with 3 CIB and a DC. I have 3 min units of hounds and 14 more drones.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 136

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#5 » Jan 19 2018 02:50

Given that daemons lack any significant armour saves, I don't think there's much point in a fusion commander over a quad cyclic ion blaster one.
When they're both overcharging, the CIB will get double the shots (8 vs 4), they will both be S8 and the CIB does slightly over half the damage (2 vs 3.5). If this is at the large multiwound targets the QFC is best against, and the CIB commander is still better, then I don't really see any target where the QFC is more efficient.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3281

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#6 » Jan 19 2018 02:53

zawyvern wrote:I want to keep the sunshark. I find it very flexible and valuable at point denial. Really good at taking out Small Units. That's on top of dealing MW to heavy infantry. Like you said smite spam will probably down it… if I'm over aggressive with it.

So I dropped the XV9s I have 2 Ion commanders now with 3 CIB and a DC. I have 3 min units of hounds and 14 more drones.

Sounds good. I guess though, with dedicated counter lists theory can only go so far- you need to play games against your intended opponent and see how things work. Try out the Sun Shark and see how it goes, if you get results with it that's what matters!

Watcher on the wall wrote:Given that daemons lack any significant armour saves, I don't think there's much point in a fusion commander over a quad cyclic ion blaster one.
When they're both overcharging, the CIB will get double the shots (8 vs 4), they will both be S8 and the CIB does slightly over half the damage (2 vs 3.5). If this is at the large multiwound targets the QFC is best against, and the CIB commander is still better, then I don't really see any target where the QFC is more efficient.

Remember though, that's in a situation where absolutely no large targets have armor saves. Daemon armies can bring Primarchs, Soul Grinders, Daemon Engines, Chaos Space Marine detachments, Renegade Knights, plenty of stuff.

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: Demon counter list 2000pts

Post#7 » Jan 19 2018 09:54

I think something to take into consideration is that Deamon army damage output relies mostly on Smite/mortal wounds output and Close combat. Having the Hazard not only lets you drop in 4 more drones to cover the Y'Vahra, it also has a massive anti horde presence. Since the targets will only have an inv save, take a drone controller and drop it in the middle of a big blob of drones. Around 25 drones + a DC Hazard will kill just under 20 plaguebearers if they have 1 markerlight token. That's including the -1 to hit. With overwatch, put the hazard out front so they need to charge it to get to the drones, this will incur a -2" to their charge and your support fire will do about 8/9 more kills on them. That's almost enough to wipe a 30 man unit in one go. These kill counts get even higher against all other Deamon infantry which makes it a great basis for your list. Add in a fireblade and this could get even more nuts!

As for dealing with the bigger threats, CIB commanders are prime here. The stormsurge is quite nice for it's EWO and Mortal Wound output against things like Magnus/Greater Deamons. A Y'Vahra is also a scary prospect for any big targets hoping to charge. another consideration instead of the Hazard, Is a Burst Cannon + DC commander which is a character, has 1 more wound and kills a couple more things with fire output.

So as a suggestion of where to take the list you could run it like this:

HQ
Quad CIB Commander + 2 shield drones - 164
Quad CIB Commander + 2 shield drones - 164
Quad CIB Commander + 2 shield drones - 164
Triple BC + DC Commander + 2 Gun Dornes - 130
Fireblade - 42

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x 5 - 40
Pathfinders x 5 - 40
Pathfinders x 5 - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Tactical Drones (5 Gun drones) - 40
Y'Vahra w/ Stims + TL - 412
LoW - Stormsurge w/ Pulse Blastcannon, 2x Burst Cannons, Shield Generator, ATS, EWO (440)

It's very spammy and maybe a bit boring, but I think it covers all your bases pretty well!

Let me know what you think!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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