My first 2000 Pt. army

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Stark06428
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Posts: 8

My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#1 » Jan 20 2018 12:39

Hello ATT

Ive been meandering around this incredible website since a little before the announcement of 8th edition. This incredible community has been a huge help to me in the clarification of rules and the purposes of each unit. My friend convinced me to join WH40k towards the end of 7th edition. All I have right now poorly built 500 Pt. army that is woefully incapable netting me any wins against my friend and only opponent. So we want to start 8th edition right.

My friend is currently building a 2000 Pt. space wolves army. So far I know my friend has 2 devastator squads loaded with lascannons, 2 drop pods(contents unknown), a Stormwolf, a lone wolf, and a terminator squad. He plans to pick me off from a distance with the lascannons and sow chaos in my ranks with the drop pods and deep striking terminator squads. He has also expressed interest in rebuilding his necron army. Fingers crossed that this is a great all round army. Also huge thanks to Ted the Tau and his army builder for helping me make this list.

HQ- Crisis commander; 163pts
Quad Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones

HQ- Crisis commander; 154pts
3 Cyclic Ions, ATS, 2 Shield Drones

HQ- Longstrike; 205pts
Railgun, 2 Gun Drones, 2 Seeker Missiles

HQ- Darkstrider; 45pts

Troops- Strike team 12 models; 119pts
Markerlight, Tactical Turret w/ missile pod

Troops- Breacher team 10 models; 83pts
Markerlight

Troops- Kroot carnivores 120 models; 120pts

Fast Attack- Pathfinder team 5 models; 40pts
5 Markerlights

Fast Attack- Pathfinder team 5 models; 40pts
5 Markerlights

Fast Attack- tactical drones; 96pts
12 Gun Drones

Transport- Devilfish; 126pts
Burst cannon, 2 Gun drones

Elite- Crisis Bodyguard 3 models; 267pts
6 Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3 ATS

Elite- Crisis Bodyguard 3 models; 267pts
6 Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3 ATS

Elite- Crisis Bodyguard 3 models; 267pts
6 Cyclic Ion Blasters, 2 Early warning overrides, Drone controller

2003pts total
8 command points; Base 3+ Battalion 3+ Vanguard 1+ Outrider 1

I have this army split up into 3 major groups, the gunline, the manta team, and the support team. The gunline is made of Darkstrider, Longstrike, the EWO Crisis Bodyguards, the strike team, the gun drones, and the kroot carnivores. The manta team consists of the crisis commanders and the remaining crisis suits. The support team is made of the Breacher team the pathfinder teams. The gunline should draw fire and dish it out to everyone who gets to close. The manta team will take out high value targets with support of the, well, support team.

When we start the game I'll set up my manta team in the manta hold first to "spy" on my friends placements and I'll place the rest in a gunline no further than 9in. away from each other to block deep strike. The gunline will move although slowly and hopefully the support team's markerlights will allow the gunline to clear enemies faster. The manta team should destroy entire units in one turn with an extra boost to reliability from the markerlights in the support team.

So what to you think? I'm interested in a XV109 Y'Vahra Battlesuit (I've heard grate things about this unit) but I don't know how many points it will cost. Do you think that this will be a good all round army? I don't like to spend money and I probably wont buy new models for a long wile after this so I need to be ready for anything. I haven't bought the models yet and I am just hoping for the go ahead and/or a few suggestions for improvements. Thanks for the help. :D
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gunrock
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Posts: 110

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#2 » Jan 20 2018 04:06

So first, lets just remove a bunch of the battle scribe formatting to make it easier to read.
A couple of your point values were off, which we can fix in a bit (QFC, longstrike, and kroot):

HQ:
Crisis commander - Quad Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones (176pts)
Crisis commander - 3x CIB, ATS, 2x Shield Drones (154pts)
Longstrike - Railgun, 2x Gun Drones, 2x Seeker Missiles (201pts)
Darkstrider – Pulse carbine, Markerlight (45pts)

Troops:
Strike team (12); Markerlight, Tactical Turret w/ missile pod (119pts)
Breacher team (10): Pulse Blaster, Markerlight (83pts)
Kroot carnivores (12) - (120pts)

Fast Attack:
Pathfinder team (5) – 5x Pulse Carbine, 5x Markerlight (40pts)
Pathfinder team (5) – 5x Pulse Carbine, 5x Markerlight (40pts)
Tactical drones (12) – 24x Pulse Carbine (96pts)

Transport:
Devilfish - Burst cannon, 2x Gun drones (126pts)

Elite:
Crisis Bodyguard (3) – 6x CIB, 3x ATS (267pts)
Crisis Bodyguard (3) – 6x CIB, 3x ATS (267pts)
Crisis Bodyguard (3) – 6x CIB, 2x EWO, DC (267pts)

2003pts total (8 CP)

Couple small things:

- Move the gun drone over to the XV-8 teams, you want them to deep strike with them to punch through screening units and provide extra ablative wounds. Your also getting more millage out of your drone controller that way.
- If you split your troops into minimum squads, you very nearly have a double battalion and will also reduce morale losses. Also, I think there’s an error on the points cost of kroot, but I’m assuming you wanted two squads of 10?
- Crisis Bodyguard are usually not necessary, as the primary unit they’re going to protect are commanders who already benefit from character + savior protocols. Switching to standard XV-8 saves a couple points. I understand wanting some sort of deep strike coverage but EWO on xv-8’s is a bit of waste. Not only are you buying multiples and displacing hard points for weapons, but your XV-8 should also be the ones deep striking not the other way around.
- Markerlight on breachers - they’ll likely be in a transport, or moving to get into blaster range. It doesn’t hurt much either and can be useful, but its easy points to trim if you need to.

With those changes you end up with something like this:

HQ:
Commander - Quad Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones (176pts)
Commander - 3x CIB, ATS, 2x Shield Drones (154pts)
Longstrike - Railgun, 2x Gun Drones, 2x Seeker Missiles (201pts)
Darkstrider – Pulse carbine, Markerlight (45pts)

Troops:
Strike team (5) – 5x pulse rifle, 1x Markerlight (43)
Strike team (5) – 5x pulse rifle, 1x Markerlight (43)
Breacher team (5) – 5x pulse Blaster (40)
Breacher team (5) – 5x pulse Blaster (40)
Kroot carnivores (10) – 10x kroot rifle (60)
Kroot carnivores (10) – 10x kroot rifle (60)

Fast Attack:
Pathfinder team (5) – 5x Pulse Carbine, 5x Markerlight (40)
Pathfinder team (5) – 5x Pulse Carbine, 5x Markerlight (40)

Transport:
Devilfish - Burst cannon, 2x Gun drones (126pts)

Elite:
Crisis XV-8 (3) – 6x CIB, 3x ATS, 6x gun drones (306 pts)
Crisis XV-8 (3) – 6x CIB, 3x ATS, 6x gun drones (306 pts)
Crisis XV-8 (3) – 8x CIB, DC, 6x gun drones (323 pts)

Batallion, Battalion - 2004 pts total (9 CP)

Stark06428 wrote:I have this army split up into 3 major groups, the gunline, the manta team, and the support team. The gunline is made of Darkstrider, Longstrike, the EWO Crisis Bodyguards, the strike team, the gun drones, and the kroot carnivores. The manta team consists of the crisis commanders and the remaining crisis suits. The support team is made of the Breacher team the pathfinder teams. The gunline should draw fire and dish it out to everyone who gets to close. The manta team will take out high value targets with support of the, well, support team.


So having your army split up by function is a good organizational strategy. My interpretation of what some of these units are doing is a little different. You have Devilfish + Breacher +Darkstrider which is a group in itself for grabbing objectives. Alternatively, Darkstrider works well with kroot who are basically screening units, and breachers on foot are great anti-deepstrike units. I mentioned before that EWO is probably not necessary on the XV-8. The other thing I would consider is the CIB commander is a bit redundant with 3 full squads of XV-8 so you can switch him to either another fusion commander or a ‘backline’ commander with MP+ATS. My only real gripe with this list is the devilfish, which I always have difficulty rationalizing to cost of, and to a lesser extent kroot (except that I like kroot for other reasons). There's more things can can move around, but this is a good place to pause and get feedback.

Edit: I just remembered Darkstrider dislikes minimum breacher squads.

Thoughts?
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Stark06428
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Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#3 » Jan 21 2018 09:20

Wow this is great advice. Some of these thing I haven't even considered, like splinting up my troops and my cib commander being redundant. I'll probobly change him to a back line commander and shift all my crisis suits to the front line. I really wasn't expecting this much in depth advice thank you very much gunrock.
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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Posts: 3288

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#4 » Jan 21 2018 06:48

Looks like you already have a solid collection- it definitely won't be hard to work this into a great list. Gunrock's double-battalion list is a great start, but does suffer a little from the non-synergy between Darkstrider and minimum-sized Breacher teams. And Gunrock, you're right- the list packs an enormous amount of Ion firepower... possibly a little too much! :D

First, Stark06428, what models do you have in your collection? That will definitely help when working on this list.

Anyway, here's what I think I'd do, assuming you're limited to the models in the original list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (156)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (201)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 13x Kroot Carnivores (78)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Total: 2002 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

What do you think? The third XV8 team feels a little out-of-place. We'd like a 2nd Fusion Commander, but we'd also like some more range (the Missile Pod Commander), and XV8s are pretty ineffective at delivering long-range firepower due to their low accuracy.

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Stark06428
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#5 » Jan 21 2018 08:48

I currently don't have much in my collection, Just an ethereal, a strike/breacher team, 3 crisis suits and a broadside. I was also stupid, got ahead of myself, and the new models are on their way. And I was thinking I could load a five man breacher team and a five man pathfinder team into a devilfish with Darkstrider. The third crisis team was meant to stay behind and reinforce the gunline. Although come to think of it there is already lots of power in the gunline. I don't have a lot of experience with making lists.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#6 » Jan 21 2018 09:05

Stark06428 wrote:I currently don't have much in my collection, Just an ethereal, a strike/breacher team, 3 crisis suits and a broadside.

Ah, you're looking to expand then? If you're trying to save money the Rapid Insertion Cadre might be a great purchase. You'd be adding Stealthsuits and a Ghostkeel but those could make a great list too!

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Stark06428
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#7 » Jan 21 2018 09:37

I remember reading that broadsides and bigger as well as the stealth suits cant do as much for the point cost. I also want to build a very well rounded army because I don't expect to buy new models soon.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#8 » Jan 21 2018 09:50

Stark06428 wrote:I remember reading that broadsides and bigger as well as the stealth suits cant do as much for the point cost. I also want to build a very well rounded army because I don't expect to buy new models soon.

Broadsides and Riptides, currently, are very over-costed. We hope the Codex improves them though. Also, Stealthsuits may have little firepower, but they are very hard to kill!

About your other questions:

Stark06428 wrote:I was also stupid, got ahead of myself, and the new models are on their way.

Which models? The Start Collecting set and the Broadside?

Stark06428 wrote:And I was thinking I could load a five man breacher team and a five man pathfinder team into a devilfish with Darkstrider.

I wouldn't recommend this, since (a) Darkstrider isn't very effective unless he's buffing a large unit, and (b) Pathfinders do not work well at all in transports.

Stark06428 wrote:The third crisis team was meant to stay behind and reinforce the gunline.

XV8s are all about Manta Strike- I highly recommend using that ability.

Stark06428 wrote:Although come to think of it there is already lots of power in the gunline. I don't have a lot of experience with making lists.

I wouldn't exactly call the 12 Fire Warriors, 1 Support Turret, and some Kroot a "gunline"- that's enough to protect an objective maybe, but it's not really going to be a threat. An actual gunline is probably going to contain a ton more Fire Warriors as well as buffing units like Fireblades, Ethereals, and possibly Pathfinder drones.

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gunrock
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Posts: 110

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#9 » Jan 21 2018 09:55

Edit: Oh sorry, I think I jumped the gun.

Sorry for the miss-post, I was actually going to suggest start-collecting boxes so that sorta worked out. This is basically a list running everything you have (except for Darkstrider) with 2 XV-8 commanders to fill the gap. You can squeeze a few more drones in if you switch to fireblade and drop a markerlight.

Commander - Quad Fusion Blaster; 2 Shield Drones (176pts)
Commander - Quad Fusion Blaster; 2 Shield Drones (176pts)
Commander – 3x MP, ATS; 2 Shield Drones (172pts)
Commander – 3x MP, ATS; 2 Shield Drones (172pts)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (201)
HQ – Ethereal on hover drone (50)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops – 5x Breachers w/Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Breachers w/Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, drone controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, drone controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - Tactical drones – 4x gun drones (32)
Fast Attack - Tactical drones – 4x gun drones (32)


Battalion, Battalion, Outrider (10 CP)
1995 points

BAM!!
Last edited by gunrock on Jan 21 2018 11:12, edited 2 times in total.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Posts: 3288

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#10 » Jan 21 2018 10:01

So, Stark06428, if you did buy the models already, that means you have...

2x Commanders
1x Longstrike
1x Darkstrider
1x Ethereal
20x Fire Warriors
3x Support Turrers
10x Breachers
1x Devilfish
9x XV8s
16x Kroot Carnivores (32x? Did you buy two boxes?)
10x Pathfinders
1x Broadside
1x Hammerhead Gunship
42x Drones

...something like that?

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Stark06428
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#11 » Jan 21 2018 10:30

Stark06428 wrote:I was also stupid, got ahead of myself, and the new models are on their way.

Which models? The Start Collecting set and the Broadside?

I already have the start collecting and a Broadside from 7th ed. The new models I want ahead and bought 2 more start collecting sets to get the crisis suits and the troops. I also got long strike and his tank, 2 commanders, and Darkstrider, as well as a pathfinder team.

Stark06428 wrote:And I was thinking I could load a five man breacher team and a five man pathfinder team into a devilfish with Darkstrider.

I wouldn't recommend this, since (a) Darkstrider isn't very effective unless he's buffing a large unit, and (b) Pathfinders do not work well at all in transports.

Stark06428 wrote:The third crisis team was meant to stay behind and reinforce the gunline.

XV8s are all about Manta Strike- I highly recommend using that ability.

Ok. I didn't know a lot of this before.

Stark06428 wrote:Although come to think of it there is already lots of power in the gunline. I don't have a lot of experience with making lists.

I wouldn't exactly call the 12 Fire Warriors, 1 Support Turret, and some Kroot a "gunline"- that's enough to protect an objective maybe, but it's not really going to be a threat. An actual gunline is probably going to contain a ton more Fire Warriors as well as buffing units like Fireblades, Ethereals, and possibly Pathfinder drones.[/quote]

The gun line is going to be backed up by Longstrike.

Huh, that quote didn't come out right.
Last edited by Stark06428 on Jan 21 2018 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Stark06428
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#12 » Jan 21 2018 10:50

I currently own (most still in shipping)

2x Commanders
1x Longstrike
1x Darkstrider
3x Ethereals (from the start collecting)
20x Fire Warriors
3x Support Turrers
10x Breachers
9x XV8s
10x Pathfinders
1x Broadside
1x Hammerhead Gunship
34x drones

Thank you guys so far for all this help. Ill try to be more clear in the future.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#13 » Jan 22 2018 01:51

Stark06428 wrote:I already have the start collecting and a Broadside from 7th ed. The new models I want ahead and bought 2 more start collecting sets to get the crisis suits and the troops. I also got long strike and his tank, 2 commanders, and Darkstrider, as well as a pathfinder team.

Okay! Sounds like a lot of models that we can work with!

Stark06428 wrote:The gun line is going to be backed up by Longstrike.

I don't want to be nit-picky, but what I'm saying is it's not a gunline- it's just a few Fire Warriors and a turret. I would consider them to be a small backfield objective-holding unit, since 75% of your army's firepower is in the deep-striking XV8s.

Stark06428 wrote:2x Commanders
1x Longstrike
1x Darkstrider
3x Ethereals (from the start collecting)
20x Fire Warriors
3x Support Turrets
10x Breachers
9x XV8s
10x Pathfinders
1x Broadside
1x Hammerhead Gunship
34x Drones

Looking at those models, here's an idea for a list:

-

HQ - Ethereal w/ Honor Blade (45)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (201)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (51)
Troops - 10x Breachers (80)
Troops - 10x Kroot Carnivores (60)
Troops - 10x Kroot Carnivores (60)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total: 1997 - Command Points: 10 (2 Battalion Detachments, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Just convert a Fireblade out of a Fire Warrior (and maybe Ethereal parts?) and you're good to go!

By the way, in your first list you had Kroot, now you don't- do you own any Kroot?

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Stark06428
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#14 » Jan 22 2018 06:49

In the first list I was saying "This is the army I want but I don't have mutch experience making armies so I'm open to advice." Then gunrock responded to my post and I wasn't expecting any more help. So I more or less usesd his list when I went shoping. But the kroot, and Devilfish were out of stock. I also want to clarify that I only have the drones that came with each kit. I also didn't understand what a "gunline" was, but I think get you now.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#15 » Jan 22 2018 06:55

Stark06428 wrote:In the first list I was saying "This is the army I want but I don't have mutch experience making armies so I'm open to advice." Then gunrock responded to my post and I wasn't expecting any more help. So I more or less usesd his list when I went shoping. But the kroot, and Devilfish were out of stock. I also want to clarify that I only have the drones that came with each kit.

Okay, sounds good! Gunrock's suggestions were great, following them totally works too. We can run the Fire Warriors and Breachers, but Darkstrider is an odd choice for the list- taking the second Battalion "breaks" the synergy between him and large squads, since he can't really use his ability properly on a 5-model squad. Also, the lack of a Devilfish means the Breachers will be hard to use.

Are your Breachers assembled? They may be better as ordinary Fire Warriors right now.

If you run 6x5 regular Fire Warriors, we can make a list like this:

HQ - Ethereal w/ Honor Blade (45)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Smart Missile Systems, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
HQ - Darkstrider (45)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Plasma Rifles, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (267)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights; 2x Shield Drones, 1x Recon Drone, 1x Pulse Accelerator Drone (76)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total: 2002 - Command Points: 10 (2 Battalion Detachments, 1 Vanguard Detachment)

-

That should be an effective list. The trick to using it is keeping the Pathfinder squad with the Drones near the Fire Warriors. Deploy the little drone group so the Pulse Accelerator Drone buffs the Fire Warriors, and the Shield Drones protect Darkstrider and the Ethereal.

As I mentioned earlier, a Fireblade could be a great force multiplier for the large Fire Warrior base.

Oh, and feel free to make 10 of those Fire Warriors into Breachers, that wouldn't be a problem.

What do you think?

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Stark06428
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Posts: 8

Re: My first 2000 Pt. army

Post#16 » Jan 22 2018 07:15

Ok, this looks great. I like it.
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