1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

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Talljester
Shas
Posts: 17

1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

Post#1 » Jan 31 2018 09:08

Hi guys,

I've been hiding away building and painting and gearing up to get back into my first tournament for quite some time. There is a 1500 point tournament coming up at one of my local gaming clubs and we can only take a patrol, vanguard, spearhead or outrider detachment. (there's a custom detachment which allows 2-6 troops and 0-2 of all others for 1cp too)

I haven't played against a huge variety of armies since the codexes have landed, so any pointers anyone could give out on what I could improve on/things to look out for would be sweet~

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [75 PL, 1495pts] ++

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber: Markerlight, 2x Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team
. 4x Pathfinder: 4x Markerlight
. Pathfinder w/ Ion Rifle: Ion rifle

Tactical Drones: 8x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones: 2x MV4 Shield Drone, 8x MV7 Marker Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit: Early warning override, Target lock

+ HQ +

Commander: 3x Cyclic ion blaster, Multi-tracker

Commander: Drone controller, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Cyclic ion raker, Multi-tracker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [75 PL, 1495pts] ++

It runs pretty slim but the idea is that the ghostkheels deploy aggressively and help take early objectives while drawing lots of fire. With a few markerlights the ghostkheels will hit super accurately making them hard to ignore, and hopefully clearing the way for the Yvahra to clean up high value targets. The sun shark is for dealing with hordes of MEQ and the cloud of drones and pathfinders can dish out some serious hits first turn with the commanders re roll hits. I feel like I've got most of the bases covered. (minus of course close combat & psychic defense)

What do you guys think?

User avatar
Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: 1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

Post#2 » Jan 31 2018 10:55

Talljester wrote:Hi guys,

I've been hiding away building and painting and gearing up to get back into my first tournament for quite some time. There is a 1500 point tournament coming up at one of my local gaming clubs and we can only take a patrol, vanguard, spearhead or outrider detachment. (there's a custom detachment which allows 2-6 troops and 0-2 of all others for 1cp too)

I haven't played against a huge variety of armies since the codexes have landed, so any pointers anyone could give out on what I could improve on/things to look out for would be sweet~

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [75 PL, 1495pts] ++

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber: Markerlight, 2x Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team
. 4x Pathfinder: 4x Markerlight
. Pathfinder w/ Ion Rifle: Ion rifle

Tactical Drones: 8x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones: 2x MV4 Shield Drone, 8x MV7 Marker Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit: Early warning override, Target lock

+ HQ +

Commander: 3x Cyclic ion blaster, Multi-tracker

Commander: Drone controller, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Cyclic ion raker, Multi-tracker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Flamer, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [75 PL, 1495pts] ++

It runs pretty slim but the idea is that the ghostkheels deploy aggressively and help take early objectives while drawing lots of fire. With a few markerlights the ghostkheels will hit super accurately making them hard to ignore, and hopefully clearing the way for the Yvahra to clean up high value targets. The sun shark is for dealing with hordes of MEQ and the cloud of drones and pathfinders can dish out some serious hits first turn with the commanders re roll hits. I feel like I've got most of the bases covered. (minus of course close combat & psychic defense)

What do you guys think?


Hi Talljester!

I'll give a couple comments on some of your selections and possible changes you could make!

Ghostkeels
This is a pretty interesting list you've got! I like the idea of the Ghostkeels taking mid centre objectives while still doing some good damage. I'd maybe consider swapping the Fusion blasters and the flamers for burst cannons? This will let them operate at their preferred mid field range and free up some points. Or have them both with flamers. I'd also switch them both to an ATS + Target Lock, although an EWO could be interesting on them if you make sure to bring some more markerlight support instead of the Target Lock. If you plan to use your markerlights on the targets of the Ghostkeels this could work. Free shooting on any deep strikers is always fun!

Y'Vahra
I'd heavily recommend swapping the EWO for an ATS. This is going to help its damage tremendously, whereas the EWO will only work for its 12" Ionic Discharge Cannon which isn't too efficient. If you haven't much experience you could check out a tactica article I wrote for the Y'Vahra which should cover how best to use it (the updated version is on page 2 of the post and has colour to it).

Drones
You've got a good amount of drones here to keep the Y'Vahra safe which is great! The only changes I'd maybe make here are to split the squads down a bit. For example, the marker squad could split into 2 squads of 5 with 1 shield drone and 4 marker drones in each. The Shield drone squad I'd split up into 2 squads of 4. This will stop you being so susceptible to morale which can really hurt without an ethereal. However I understand wanting to make yourself a bit more first blood proof. It's probably down to preference here.

Commanders
Again you've got some solid choices here. The only changes I'd make are to the support systems! The CIB one, I'd swap out for an ATS rather than a multi tracker. I'm assuming the Missile commander will be babysitting the marker drones? Either way I think he'd really benefit by taking 2 marker drones rather than 2 shield drones. I'd say the main thing your list lacks is some anti tank firepower, which is covered by the Y'Vahra mostly as well as your CIB commander being able to help in a pinch, but swapping the CIB commander for one with Tri-Fusion + Shield Gen/Multi-Tracker would really help here.

Sunshark
This should be a good choice to take on things like hammer terminators or other hard mortal wound vulnerable targets. Personally I think you'd be much better served by replacing this with some pathfinders or another commander, but it's certainly not a bad choice!

Overall it's a pretty good list! My only qualms with it are using markerdrones which are not the best markerlight source (they're still ok though!) and the fact that you want almost every drone you have being able to cover the Y'Vahra for Saviour Protocols. Do you have models owned being a limiting factor in your list building at all? Would be interesting to know!

Here's and example list based off what I said:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [75 PL, 1495pts] ++

+ Flyer +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber: Markerlight, 2x Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2 seeker Missiles

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team
. 5x Pathfinder: 5x Markerlight

Tactical Drones: 4x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones: 4x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones: 1x MV4 Shield Drone, 4x MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones: 1x MV4 Shield Drone, 4x MV7 Marker Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit: Advanced Targeting System, Target lock

+ HQ +

Commander: 3x Fusion Blasters, Multi tracker, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Commander: Drone controller, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV7 Marker Drone

+ Elites +

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Burst Cannon, Cyclic ion raker, Advanced Targeting System, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Burst Cannon, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

++ Total: [75 PL, 1498pts] ++ (didn't re calculate PL)

Let me know what you think?
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

User avatar
gunrock
Shas
Posts: 110

Re: 1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

Post#3 » Jan 31 2018 05:14

Hey Talljester!

R'Kai hit on a lot of good points. I just had a thought on the dronemander + marker drones setup which I've been trying to work through (with some very helpful input from Arka which I won't paraphrase to avoid misrepresenting his position). Basically, all of the drone controller commander setups seem to suffer from the inclusion of the drone controller. My inclination was similar, load it onto an MP commander who can hang back, but this becomes problematic for other reasons. MP's are poorly suited to most of the targets you'd want a multi-damage weapon against without the addition of ATS. Sofar I've seen burst cannon, CIB, and flamers (woah!) all proposed as possible armaments, but all seem to have some problem: The BC is cheap, but your likely losing a turn of shooting landing a short ranged unit in the back, and the protection of the drones is somewhat wasted in that setup, CIB has a similar problem, but is a bit more multipurpose, but also loses ATS which makes CIB useful against a much wider range of targets, and flamers are well... flamers. Using ground marker drones also seems to have the same vulnerabilities of just running conventional pathfinders, as they both start on the field and get shot at immediately, while part of the advantage of using a marker drone setup is you can bury them in deep striking squads to make sure you get to use them. The other advantage to running a backfield commander is also being in a position to call either mont'ka or Kauyon.

So here's a couple thoughts on how you can work around it:
- first, you can just use a conventional pathfinder setup, that way you get BS4 markerlights without any of the trouble of DC.
- Distribute marker drones - build them into squads of gun or shield drones in a similar way to markerlights and strike teams.
- load the drone controller onto another unit that suffers less from the lost slot such as XV-25, XV-8 (8x CIB +DC), XV-9 or some combination there of and plan on linking up midfield. If you want the flexibility of having a backline commander, Coldstar actually does the job reasonably for covering first turn until you can move your drones to mid-field. The mont'ka also pairs well with the Y'Vahra allowing you to take stims + ATS without target lock, advance your marker drones and still shoot.
- If you don't have enough space to fit one of these setups I would strongly consider switching to the pathfinder setup.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3288

Re: 1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

Post#4 » Jan 31 2018 09:47

The advice given by Shas'O R'Kai and Gunrock is excellent! Taking Commanders, Drones, and a Y'vahra is very competitive (for now) so you're already off to a good start. I know some of these points have been discussed already, but let me further highlight a few:

1. Multi-Trackers don't play well with Markerlights. With so many Markerlights in this army, I feel like the Multi-Trackers aren't totally necessary, and could be replaced with more effective wargear, such as ATS.

2. Marker Drones are good, but Drone Controller Commanders aren't as effective as they seem. You're keeping a lot of points to babysit the Marker Drones.

3. You have plenty of anti-tank with a Y'vahra and a Commander, I'd use the Ghostkeels both as midfield interdiction units. Flamers can be very effective on Ghostkeels too, so consider keeping those.

With all this in mind, your army is very split. Ghostkeel Flamers, the Y'vahra, and the Commanders don't really care about Markerlights. Ghostkeel CIRs and the Sun Shark Bomber care about Markerlights very much. With that in mind, you're going to need to keep a decent number of Markerlights, I think, to reliably get 3 hits on your priority targets, and use the Uplinked Markerlight stratagem whenever you need 5.

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [Warlord, Tenacious Survivor, PEN]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (156)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Flamers, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (179)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Flamers, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (179)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 3x Shield Drones, 2x Marker Drones (44)
Fast Attack - 3x Shield Drones, 2x Marker Drones (44)
Fast Attack - 2x Shield Drones, 2x Marker Drones (36)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Ionic Discharge Cannon, Phased Ion Flamer, Target Lock, Stimulant Injector (412)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1497 - Command Points: 5 (2 Outrider Detachments)

-

The third Tactical Drone unit is smaller but that's just to keep the points low. Shield Drones were taken wherever possible, the Y'vahra has a Stimulant Injector, and the Fusion Commander has Tenacious Survivor as this army needs durability wherever it can get it. Anyway, what do you think?

Talljester
Shas
Posts: 17

Re: 1500 Kor'vessa Themed List for fine tuning.

Post#5 » Feb 04 2018 10:07

Sorry for the late reply guys, I took a bunch of your advice and play tested 2 games with the same list to see how it handles.

After taking your advice into account here is the list I took -

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) [Warlord, Tenacious Survivor, PEN]
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (156)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Flamers, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (179)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Fusion, Target Lock, Velocity Tracker; 2x Stealth Drones (203)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 3x Shield Drones, 1x Marker Drones (34)
Fast Attack - 3x Shield Drones, 1x Marker Drones (34)
Fast Attack - 3x Shield Drones, 1x Marker Drones (34)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Ionic Discharge Cannon, Phased Ion Flamer, Target Lock, ATS (412)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1499 - Command Points: 5 (2 Outrider Detachments)

A few things on some of the pointers given & some notes from games-
-The ghostkheels are glued & painted with flamers & fusions (I'm also a strong believer in not putting Burst Cannons on my most durable platform)
-ATS on the commander is a Godsend, That extra Neg 1 makes all the difference (been using MT for too long)
-MSU is losing me first blood and first turn, BUT I haven't been losing drones to morale or large swathes of bullets as easily, still torn a bit here.

My games were against Dark Eldar and Adeptus Mechanicus - in my game against DE I lost first turn and took heavy losses, my 2 ghostkheels ate 12 darklances and 8 blasters and bit the dust, my opponent got KPS for the drones, FB, and the kheels. however he'd gone all in on his first turn and in my turn the pathfinder squads alongside the bonus marker Strat saw me land 5 hits on 2 transports, and following that I toasted his flyer with my plasma flamer + another one of the transports with the Haywire cannon, and another 2 transports with the combined sunshark seekers/missilers/drones (it is way better when supported by markers! I didn't even realise) and Fusion Commander. the Sunsharks bomb took out 4 of 7 Scourges in cover and the CIB/ATS commander killed a full squad of 5 Blasterborn on his own. After losing 400+ points in my first turn I'd succesfully bitten back and put my opponent severely on the back foot. This one ended being a sweeping victory for the tau.

My other game against mechanicus was a bit different, we played a standard maelstrom of war and the table was split diagonally, we both deployed heavily on one flank after he reacted to my offensive kheel deployment with an offensive dragoon and kastellan deployment. He castled up a bit so that I couldn't deepstrike in range of his onagers or get close to his kastellans without pulling my drones out of cover and into the open. (note that he had the -1 to hit at more then 12 forge world) I siezed and the flamer kheel charged and tied up his robots from shooting and the sunshark deleted a big squad of vanguard, I killed 2 of his 4 Kastellans and destroyed an onager and unit of dragoons in my first turn, his retaliation caused some damage but after siezing and getting his kastellans on the backfoot I had him where I wanted, under pressure with too much target saturation to be effective.

Over all I'm struggling to find many more points to adjust in the list, I was initially concerned the Sunshark would be a super easy target and die first turn a lot, but deploying it last and in the backfield has seen it surviving mainly because everything else is more intimidating, and after the first bombing run the Yvahra is generally much more of an in your face problem, leaving it free to float and harass. I've considered swapping it for 5 more pathfinders and a squad of Vespid, or a third commander and drone swarm, but I'm loving the mortal wounds.

I'm pretty sure this is the list I will take to the tournie, 2 sub outs I am considering in future are the Sunshark or one Ghostkheel for either stealths + HB + Gun drone Swarm OR Vespids more Drones/finders OR a missile mander + drone swarm, I will test these out in some more friendly games in future :biggrin:

Thanks again for your advice guys!
Lots of brainfarting here so sorry if the post reads a bit rambly.

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