2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

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RockBracken
Shas
Posts: 8

2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#1 » Feb 01 2018 01:32

Hello all!

I've recently bought back into Tau with one of the Battleforce boxes, and started to look around the forum for some tactics and strategies for 8e, as the last time I had played with my Tau was during 7th. I saw the tactica article on the Y'vahra, and it really intrigued me so I wanted to incorporate that. I had initially thought of a Stormsurge due to liking the model and how it looked in 7th, but thought that the Y'vahra would fit better with other elements in my list after reading that post.

With that in mind, I built the list as an attempt to get a general, well-rounded list that, while perhaps not highly competitive, could perform relatively well and be able to cover a variety of lists others may throw at it. I'm somewhat limited in funds, so I'm looking to use this list as my sole Tau army until I have the money freed up to expand on it, and so want to incorporate as much of that battleforce box as possible to make sure I get my money's worth out of it.

Without further ado, here's the list!


++ Battalion Detachment (T'au Empire) [494pts] ++

+ Troops +

Strike Team [40pts]

2x Strike Team [43pts]
. Markerlight,

+ Fast Attack +

2x Pathfinder Team [40pts]
. 5x Pathfinder

+ HQ +

2x Commander [144pts]:
. Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, Shield generator

++ Vanguard Detachment (T'au Empire) [802pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander Shadowsun [173pts]:
. MV62 Command-link Drone

+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [201pts]
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Fusion blaster, Shield generator

2x XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [214pts]:
. 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Fusion collider, Shield generator

++ Outrider Detachment (T'au Empire) [704pts] ++

+ Fast Attack +

2x Tactical Drones [40pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, MV4 Shield Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [458pts]: Advanced targeting system, 2x MV84 Shielded Missile Drone, Stimulant injector

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [166pts]: Advanced targeting system, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Shield generator

++ Total: [2000pts] ++

For a bit of an explanation of everything, the Battalion's purpose is largely there for objective grabbing (Strike Teams), markerlights (Pathfinders), and to support the Y'vahra (Commanders) with some additional drones, and some firepower to help take care of some of the lighter targets they may run in to, or otherwise supplement the Y'vahra's firepower from a bit further back.

The Outrider and Vanguard may be organized differently when the Codex comes out; if there's a sept with the damage track improvement ability like the Valhallans or Iyanden have. I'd likely try to fit the Ghostkeels and Y'vahra under the same detachment in that case.

For now, however, the Vanguard is largely there as a distraction force; to make the opponent have to choose between the immediate (and ideally) big threat, or the threat coming up from the rear, with some additional synergy in that detachment from Shadowsun.

The Outrider has the Y'vahra itself, along with a Coldstar for support, and drones for some additional Saviour chances beyond what the drones from the other Commander choices in the list give that will be dropping in nearby.

Now for the questions section; what do you all think would help improve my goals, be it adding to this style of list or changing some things out that may better suit the end goal? I haven't played with or against any Tau in 8th, so these are simply the thoughts of a past Tau player along with some observed ATT ideas; what improvements to the list, or recommended strategies do you guys think would be useful?

Thank you all for your time and thoughts!
-RockB

P.S., Apologies if the list is in an undesirable format; I exported it as forum text from Battlescribe, then made more than a few edits to try to clean it up and condense it down by marking multiple units (e.g. 2x [unit name] for two units that are exactly the same), and only listing things purchased that are not included by default. If there's a concern with how it's listed or formatted, please let me know and I'll be more than happy to correct it!

User avatar
Aspiring Commander
Shas'Saal
Posts: 69

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#2 » Feb 01 2018 03:05

Hey there!

Interesting list so far, got a few points to bring up:
Unless you want to use that second Kauyon, for 3pts extra shadowsun can be swapped for a quad fusion commander. It has a much larger damage output, but I understand if you prefer fluff to crunch.
Fusion collider keels shouldn't take ATS. -5AP seems unneccesary :) if I were you, and you were going to take 2 ghostkeels, I'd make one anti tank and one anti MEQ (probably would swap the anti tank one for a fusion commander)
With there only being a handful of markerlight sources in your army, id recommend putting a target lock on the Y'vahra.
The Y'vahra and the Coldstar don't need accompanying drones, they won't keep up with their movement.
I always prefer minimum-sized units of stealth and crisis suits. I don't want them to run away from morale :)

I've written up an alternate list to consider:
HQ- Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS, 2x shield drone (154)
HQ- Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS, 2x shield drone (154)
HQ- Commander w/ 4x fusion blaster, 2x shield drone (176)
HQ- Coldstar Commander w/ATS, shield generator (150)
Troop- Strike team w/ markerlight (43)
Troop- Strike team w/ markerlight (43)
Troop- Strike team w/ markerlight (43)
Elite- Stealth team w/ 3x burst cannon, 3x ATS, homing beacon, 2x gun drone (150)
Elite- Ghostkeel w/ fusion collider, 2x fusion blaster, target lock, shield generator (240)
Elite- Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x burst cannon, ATS, target lock (181)
Fast Attack- Pathfinders w/ 5x markerlight (40)
Fast Attack- Pathfinders w/ 5x markerlight (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Y'vahra w/ ATS, target lock (415)

Total: 1909pts, 8 command points (1 battalion, 1 vanguard, 1 outrider)

It leaves 90 odd points, which I would probably fill with a fire blade and a pathfinder team for more markerlights. What do you think?
'We act as one, and united we cannot fall'

-Commander Shadowsun

RockBracken
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#3 » Feb 01 2018 08:39

Aspiring Commander wrote:Hey there!

Interesting list so far, got a few points to bring up:
Unless you want to use that second Kauyon, for 3pts extra shadowsun can be swapped for a quad fusion commander. It has a much larger damage output, but I understand if you prefer fluff to crunch.


Thank you for your input! I appreciate you taking the time to do so!

I had her included mainly for the command-link drone bonus, but target locks do seem to be better; ignoring a -1 modifier is a fair bit better than re-rolling ones :) And it keeps the detachment Sept agnostic, in case a good one comes up during the codex!

Aspiring Commander wrote: Fusion collider keels shouldn't take ATS. -5AP seems unneccesary :) if I were you, and you were going to take 2 ghostkeels, I'd make one anti tank and one anti MEQ (probably would swap the anti tank one for a fusion commander)


That's probably a good call! It makes it a bit harder to ignore them and I can avoid running out of targets should they push trough all of their armour.


Aspiring Commander wrote:With there only being a handful of markerlight sources in your army, id recommend putting a target lock on the Y'vahra.
The Y'vahra and the Coldstar don't need accompanying drones, they won't keep up with their movement.
I always prefer minimum-sized units of stealth and crisis suits. I don't want them to run away from morale :)


All good thoughts, thank you! I remember reading about them not being able to keep up, but also heard that wrapping them in drones is rather useful, so included them anyway. But if the points can be better spent elsewhere, then that's even better!

Aspiring Commander wrote:It leaves 90 odd points, which I would probably fill with a fire blade and a pathfinder team for more markerlights. What do you think?


I think those are good ideas, as well. The Fireblade helping out the strikes, and more markerlights would improve my chances of getting the higher buffs. Might not be able to get that high, but if I can improve my chances of pulling off 4 lights or 5, those'd come in handy.

If I may ask, why the removal of the shield generators from the Commanders? Are the shield drones commonly held to be enough of a compensating factor to be worth the additional firepower that comes from having the extra gun?

I tend to fall towards more increasing durability, hence the probable over-use of shield generators in the v1 list :biggrin:

User avatar
Aspiring Commander
Shas'Saal
Posts: 69

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#4 » Feb 02 2018 01:39

RockBracken wrote:And it keeps the detachment Sept agnostic, in case a good one comes up during the codex!


If we get any sept traits that come close to what other armies have, it'll be amazing. Imagine Tau with a raven guard style modifier to hit! :)

RockBracken wrote:
Aspiring Commander wrote:With there only being a handful of markerlight sources in your army, id recommend putting a target lock on the Y'vahra.
The Y'vahra and the Coldstar don't need accompanying drones, they won't keep up with their movement.
I always prefer minimum-sized units of stealth and crisis suits. I don't want them to run away from morale :)



All good thoughts, thank you! I remember reading about them not being able to keep up, but also heard that wrapping them in drones is rather useful, so included them anyway. But if the points can be better spent elsewhere, then that's even better!


I assumed that's what the 2 tactical drone squads were for? The more drones the merrier really, it's only really in case you need the Y'vahra to weather a round of shooting. I personally surround my Y'vahra with shield drones for maximum protection (I think I'm currently running 9 shield drones in 2 squads. With their Feel No Pain roll, they have to statistically shoot 12 times first and kill the drones before they can do any real damage ;))


RockBracken wrote:If I may ask, why the removal of the shield generators from the Commanders? Are the shield drones commonly held to be enough of a compensating factor to be worth the additional firepower that comes from having the extra gun?

I tend to fall towards more increasing durability, hence the probable over-use of shield generators in the v1 list :biggrin:


I think this ones person preference really, particularly with fusion commanders. Lots of people prefer the 3 FB + shield gen. loadout, but I would edge away from taking a commander with 2 support systems personally. Maybe 3 CIB and a shield generator?

My fusion commanders I usually use as a points trade; I don't really expect them to see the turn after, but rather take out and cripple as many points worth of vehicles before they go.

Alternatively, if I need the extra firepower for more than a turn, I start trying to be cute with commanders and drop them behind other manta striking units in my list (CIB crisis teams) and take advantage of that character keyword! In your list, you could drop it around a ghostkeel on a flank for a similar effect. :)
'We act as one, and united we cannot fall'

-Commander Shadowsun

User avatar
Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 135

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#5 » Feb 02 2018 07:37

RockBracken wrote:Hello all!

I've recently bought back into Tau with one of the Battleforce boxes, and started to look around the forum for some tactics and strategies for 8e, as the last time I had played with my Tau was during 7th. I saw the tactica article on the Y'vahra, and it really intrigued me so I wanted to incorporate that. I had initially thought of a Stormsurge due to liking the model and how it looked in 7th, but thought that the Y'vahra would fit better with other elements in my list after reading that post.

With that in mind, I built the list as an attempt to get a general, well-rounded list that, while perhaps not highly competitive, could perform relatively well and be able to cover a variety of lists others may throw at it. I'm somewhat limited in funds, so I'm looking to use this list as my sole Tau army until I have the money freed up to expand on it, and so want to incorporate as much of that battleforce box as possible to make sure I get my money's worth out of it.

Without further ado, here's the list!


++ Battalion Detachment (T'au Empire) [494pts] ++

+ Troops +

Strike Team [40pts]

2x Strike Team [43pts]
. Markerlight,

+ Fast Attack +

2x Pathfinder Team [40pts]
. 5x Pathfinder

+ HQ +

2x Commander [144pts]:
. Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, Shield generator

++ Vanguard Detachment (T'au Empire) [802pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander Shadowsun [173pts]:
. MV62 Command-link Drone

+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [201pts]
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Fusion blaster, Shield generator

2x XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [214pts]:
. 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Fusion collider, Shield generator

++ Outrider Detachment (T'au Empire) [704pts] ++

+ Fast Attack +

2x Tactical Drones [40pts]: 4x MV1 Gun Drone, MV4 Shield Drone

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [458pts]: Advanced targeting system, 2x MV84 Shielded Missile Drone, Stimulant injector

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [166pts]: Advanced targeting system, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Shield generator

++ Total: [2000pts] ++

For a bit of an explanation of everything, the Battalion's purpose is largely there for objective grabbing (Strike Teams), markerlights (Pathfinders), and to support the Y'vahra (Commanders) with some additional drones, and some firepower to help take care of some of the lighter targets they may run in to, or otherwise supplement the Y'vahra's firepower from a bit further back.

The Outrider and Vanguard may be organized differently when the Codex comes out; if there's a sept with the damage track improvement ability like the Valhallans or Iyanden have. I'd likely try to fit the Ghostkeels and Y'vahra under the same detachment in that case.

For now, however, the Vanguard is largely there as a distraction force; to make the opponent have to choose between the immediate (and ideally) big threat, or the threat coming up from the rear, with some additional synergy in that detachment from Shadowsun.

The Outrider has the Y'vahra itself, along with a Coldstar for support, and drones for some additional Saviour chances beyond what the drones from the other Commander choices in the list give that will be dropping in nearby.

Now for the questions section; what do you all think would help improve my goals, be it adding to this style of list or changing some things out that may better suit the end goal? I haven't played with or against any Tau in 8th, so these are simply the thoughts of a past Tau player along with some observed ATT ideas; what improvements to the list, or recommended strategies do you guys think would be useful?

Thank you all for your time and thoughts!
-RockB

P.S., Apologies if the list is in an undesirable format; I exported it as forum text from Battlescribe, then made more than a few edits to try to clean it up and condense it down by marking multiple units (e.g. 2x [unit name] for two units that are exactly the same), and only listing things purchased that are not included by default. If there's a concern with how it's listed or formatted, please let me know and I'll be more than happy to correct it!


So this is looking like a pretty nice fluffy army! To best understand how to help you achieve what you're looking for, I've a few questions!

1. Are you trying to be as competitive as possible with the resources you have? Or are you looking to retain some theme/fluff to the list?

2. Could you give an overview of the models available to you?

3. Are you ok with representations or are you trying to stay WYSIWYG?

Based off the list you have and keeping it roughly the same without outright removing/replacing units, I'd suggest making the following tweaks to help tighten it up a bit :)

HQ- Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS, 2x shield drone (154)
HQ- Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS, 2x shield drone (154)
HQ- Commander w/ 3x fusion blaster, shield generator 2x shield drone (163)
HQ- Coldstar Commander w/ATS, shield generator (150)
Troop- Strike team (40)
Troop- Strike team w/ markerlight (43)
Troop- Strike team w/ markerlight (43)
Elite- Stealth team w/ 2x burst cannon, 2x ATS, 1x Fusion Blaster, shield generator (125)
Elite- Ghostkeel w/ fusion collider, 2x fusion blaster, target lock, Velocity Tracker(210)
Elite- Ghostkeel w/ CIR, 2x burst cannon, ATS, target lock (181)
Fast Attack- Pathfinders w/ 5x markerlight (40)
Fast Attack- Pathfinders w/ 5x markerlight (40)
Fast Attack- Pathfinders w/ 5x markerlight (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Tactical Drones w/ 4x gun drone, 1x shield drone (40)
Fast Attack- Y'vahra w/ ATS, target lock (415)
Total: 1998

This is very similar to what Aspiring Commander has suggested, but with a bigger emphasis on squeezing in more drones to keep the Y'Vahra alive and getting some more Pathfinders in for more reliable markerlights. The Fusion commander could be made a QFC pretty easily but given that you like durability and this loadout has worked wonders for me in the past, I thought this would work with the theme of the list. Of course, I don't know if you have enough drones to make this work etc, but to better follow the idea that the Y'Vahra is much of your punch the extra drones will go a long way in keeping it alive. 16 drones plus the distraction of the Ghostkeels/Stealth team should be making sure the Y'Vahra hangs around for a while. The Drones can all position in front of the Y'Vahra in a screen etc but I tlak about that in greater depth in the Y'Vahra Tactica :)

If you're ok with swapping some units out etc, I'd have another couple unit swaps you could make to it but this covers a good amount of opponents as it is! Decent anti-large with the Y'Vahra, Fusion commander and the Fusion Ghostkeel, Good Anti-elite with the Y'Vahra CIB's and the CIR Ghostkeel, and then the rest can handle any light-infantry.

Let me know what you think!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

RockBracken
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#6 » Feb 04 2018 10:00

Sorry for the delay in my reply; had a bit of a busy weekend.

Aspiring Commander wrote:I assumed that's what the 2 tactical drone squads were for? The more drones the merrier really, it's only really in case you need the Y'vahra to weather a round of shooting. I personally surround my Y'vahra with shield drones for maximum protection (I think I'm currently running 9 shield drones in 2 squads. With their Feel No Pain roll, they have to statistically shoot 12 times first and kill the drones before they can do any real damage ;))


That was a bit of a supplement to the Y's drones, but if they can't keep up, I can drop the Y'vahra's drones, and that'll give me enough back to pick up another squad.

Aspiring Commander wrote:I think this ones person preference really, particularly with fusion commanders. Lots of people prefer the 3 FB + shield gen. loadout, but I would edge away from taking a commander with 2 support systems personally. Maybe 3 CIB and a shield generator?

My fusion commanders I usually use as a points trade; I don't really expect them to see the turn after, but rather take out and cripple as many points worth of vehicles before they go.

Alternatively, if I need the extra firepower for more than a turn, I start trying to be cute with commanders and drop them behind other manta striking units in my list (CIB crisis teams) and take advantage of that character keyword! In your list, you could drop it around a ghostkeel on a flank for a similar effect. :)



My hope was for the 3FB+shield Commanders to survive to a second turn of firing, especially if I can get the distances right with my Ghostkeel and/or other infiltrators to make use of the Character word as you mention. I suppose though if I can get it to work just right, I can fit that fourth blaster there and two turns of that before they crumple would be more valuable.

Hello R'Kai, thank you for your post!

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:1. Are you trying to be as competitive as possible with the resources you have? Or are you looking to retain some theme/fluff to the list?

2. Could you give an overview of the models available to you?

3. Are you ok with representations or are you trying to stay WYSIWYG?

Based off the list you have and keeping it roughly the same without outright removing/replacing units, I'd suggest making the following tweaks to help tighten it up a bit :)


For your questions:
1. I'm trying to make it a mix, I suppose; decent in competition, but I do like theme/fluff over pure crunch.

2. Sure thing! Right now I have the battleforce box; 6 Stealth Suits, a Ghostkeel, a Coldstar/big Commander, and three Crises suits (planning on running those as normal Commanders to the big one's Coldstar), plus a smattering of drones (11, plus two homing beacons. I think the drones are 7 tacticals, 2 stealth, and 2 markers). I'd like to use those, or at least most of those, then whatever else I go with I'll pick up along the way. If I need seven drone packs, I can get those :)

3. I'd prefer to stay WYSIWYG, or at least close (models and guns, support systems optional). When I get these guys built up, the guys I'm probably going to commission with do magnetizing, so I was just going to have them magnetize every option. Could get pricy, but I think it'd be worth it, especially when the meta shifts.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:This is very similar to what Aspiring Commander has suggested, but with a bigger emphasis on squeezing in more drones to keep the Y'Vahra alive and getting some more Pathfinders in for more reliable markerlights. The Fusion commander could be made a QFC pretty easily but given that you like durability and this loadout has worked wonders for me in the past, I thought this would work with the theme of the list. Of course, I don't know if you have enough drones to make this work etc, but to better follow the idea that the Y'Vahra is much of your punch the extra drones will go a long way in keeping it alive. 16 drones plus the distraction of the Ghostkeels/Stealth team should be making sure the Y'Vahra hangs around for a while. The Drones can all position in front of the Y'Vahra in a screen etc but I tlak about that in greater depth in the Y'Vahra Tactica :)

If you're ok with swapping some units out etc, I'd have another couple unit swaps you could make to it but this covers a good amount of opponents as it is! Decent anti-large with the Y'Vahra, Fusion commander and the Fusion Ghostkeel, Good Anti-elite with the Y'Vahra CIB's and the CIR Ghostkeel, and then the rest can handle any light-infantry.


That tactica was the main reason I wanted to include one in my list and thank you for taking the time to write it! It gave me a lot of ideas in how to run the Y'vahra properly.

For your list suggestion, I do like that a lot; it expands upon the good that Aspiring brought up, and includes somethings I hadn't really considered (Velocity on the Fusion Ghostkeel, for instance, for anti-flier duty; I forgot that portion of gameplay >.<). The changes in there are ones I'm comfortable with, and make a whole lot of sense to me


I'd be fine with swapping out units if you have further suggestions. As I mentioned, I only have the contents of the box so far, so if there's other units you'd recommend, pleast let me know! I'm rather flexible at this stage and if there's some portion or possibility that I may have overlooked, please let me know.

Thank you,
-RockB

User avatar
steelmanf
Shas'Saal
Posts: 43

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#7 » Feb 05 2018 01:39

RockBracken wrote:3. I'd prefer to stay WYSIWYG, or at least close (models and guns, support systems optional). When I get these guys built up, the guys I'm probably going to commission with do magnetizing, so I was just going to have them magnetize every option. Could get pricy, but I think it'd be worth it, especially when the meta shifts.


I only want to mention that if you want to go WYSIWYG, you probably didn't get enough Cyclic Ion Blasters with your box. In my army, I only ever got 1 CIB from the Commander box. You'll (and your competitors) either have to be ok with proxy-ing some Burst Cannons as CIBs, 3D print your own, or purchase some from ebay (hard to find) or one of a few websites that sell their own 3D printed renditions.

Otherwise, the suggested lists so far look pretty good to me!

RockBracken
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: 2000pt General List - Advice and Tips Welcome!

Post#8 » Feb 09 2018 06:30

steelmanf wrote:
RockBracken wrote:3. I'd prefer to stay WYSIWYG, or at least close (models and guns, support systems optional). When I get these guys built up, the guys I'm probably going to commission with do magnetizing, so I was just going to have them magnetize every option. Could get pricy, but I think it'd be worth it, especially when the meta shifts.


I only want to mention that if you want to go WYSIWYG, you probably didn't get enough Cyclic Ion Blasters with your box. In my army, I only ever got 1 CIB from the Commander box. You'll (and your competitors) either have to be ok with proxy-ing some Burst Cannons as CIBs, 3D print your own, or purchase some from ebay (hard to find) or one of a few websites that sell their own 3D printed renditions.

Otherwise, the suggested lists so far look pretty good to me!


Shoot, I really should keep a better eye on my notifications.

Thanks for the heads-up! I'll have to keep an eye out for them!

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