"Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

"Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#1 » Feb 05 2018 10:35

Hi all!

So I've got a 2v2 tournament coming up in my area and I just received the rules pack for it, and to say they are restrictive is an understatement! I'm looking to see if I can make a viable 1000 point list to compliment my partners blood angels army. The premise is that its a more friendly environment but a lot of the players there are very competitive so I'm looking to just keep up with them given the restrictions. The restrictions are as follows:

- I'm allowed no Forgeworld models.
- I'm only allowed 2 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy support slot(s).
- Only 1 patrol detachment so Command Points are set at 3 per player.

So this means no Y'Vahra and no commander/drone spam. Is it possible to make a remotely competitive list out of this? So far I'm thinking about this as a basis for my list:

2x tri Fusion + shield gen Commanders w/2 Shield drones each (326)
2x 10 man strike teams w/ markerlights (166)
1x 8 man PF squad (all markers) (64)
1 fully kitted crisis team (either flamer or plasma since I don't have CIB) (252- 273)
1 Missileside (210)

Do you think I'm best to drop the missile side for something else and to include more accompanying drones? Or Perhaps reduce the markerlights a touch and include some Ion/Rail in there? I was thinking that I could take special weapons and have a footslogging flamer squad. Then I'd have much fewer marker reliant units.

Let me know your thoughts on this one! I'm really considering just taking my grey knights for this one since the slot restrictions really don't matter as much to them.

Edit:

Here's another style of list I'm thinking of!

Tri Fusion + Shield Generator Commander w/ 2 shield drones - 163
Coldstar w/ ATS + Shield Generator - 150
10 Breachers w/ markerlight- 83
Devilfish - 127
10 Strike team w/ markerlight - 83
10 Pathfinders w/ 3 Ion rifles and P.A. Drone + 3 gun drones - 139
Double Flamer +ATS Crisis w/6 Gun drones - 252

It's a bit more thematic and based around taking objectives. Obviously it's not the best, but given the model/rules restrictions I have I think it could be ok. I considered switching the Breachers to another Strike team and equipping the Pathfinders with Railrifles to make them the aggressors inside the devilfish. Ultimately I prefer the idea of them sitting on an objective to almost guarantee cover and be a bit safer. This list needs to have some punch in every element so I thought the special weapons were a better choice than the list I have above.

Thanks!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 576

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#2 » Feb 05 2018 11:33

I intentionally played a list this weekend without commanders or y'varha to test myself against a lower level but codex equipped player. Outcome was that I barely lost but in my opinion the tourney rules are too restrictive for us to remain relevant in that format. I'd pass if I were you.

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#3 » Feb 05 2018 11:47

Yojimbob wrote:I intentionally played a list this weekend without commanders or y'varha to test myself against a lower level but codex equipped player. Outcome was that I barely lost but in my opinion the tourney rules are too restrictive for us to remain relevant in that format. I'd pass if I were you.


I'm still not sure, but I'm not playing with no commanders. 2 Is still enough to put a serious dent in enemy armour! My ally being blood angels means they should hopefully be preoccupied by him to shoot at my objective holders. I'm just trying to decide if the Grey Knights would bring more to the table than Tau.

Tau give much better objective holding capabilities, but the grey knights are probably better offensively (other than commanders). They also provide a lot of potential psychic shutdown, as well as some psychic MW output. I'll have a talk with my partner soon and see what kind of list he's taking. Hopefully that should let me see what will compliment it better. I do fear that with restrictions like this, I'm probably better off with the Grey Knights. Plus, the inevitable Daemon spam will be much easier to deal with! Last time I brought them and faced daemons it was a slaughter! It's just sad because I think the tau list looks like more fun to me! I'll playtest some lists and see what I think.

Other than that, dyou have any comments on the lists I've suggested? I'm heavily leaning towards the second one except with 2 Fusion commanders. I can't afford not to do that.

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Draaen
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 158

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#4 » Feb 05 2018 01:15

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:- I'm allowed no Forgeworld models.
- I'm only allowed 2 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy support slot(s).
- Only 1 patrol detachment so Command Points are set at 3 per player.


That's pretty tight at 1000 points. I'd recommend coming up with a combined strategy with your opponent where you may have fire warriors/pathfinders camping your objectives and the rest are really aggressive or you know whatever would go well with your combined model collections. His troops will end up being shooty as well so it's not like he'll be able to drop in a ton of jump units.

If he does want to deep strike a lot in you guys could get a real advantage for deployment when you all declare deep strikers first. Woudl really let you see where your opponent is setting up.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:2x tri Fusion + shield gen Commanders w/2 Shield drones each (326)
2x 10 man strike teams w/ markerlights (166)
1x 8 man PF squad (all markers) (64)
1 fully kitted crisis team (either flamer or plasma since I don't have CIB) (252- 273)
1 Missileside (210)


So you won't have any homing beacons which makes me think you'd be better off to go with plasma. For a more aggressive style list you could always dump them missile side for more crisis suits and drones in that unit. Extra protection and defense. If you could drop that many drones I would think you could ditch the Shield Gen on the commanders for quad fusion commanders. Plus you would have one less deployment drop. Might help you get first turn as I suspect a lot of players will max out their slots.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Tri Fusion + Shield Generator Commander w/ 2 shield drones - 163
Coldstar w/ ATS + Shield Generator - 150
10 Breachers w/ markerlight- 83
Devilfish - 127
10 Strike team w/ markerlight - 83
10 Pathfinders w/ 3 Ion rifles and P.A. Drone + 3 gun drones - 139
Double Flamer +ATS Crisis w/6 Gun drones - 252


Cold Star I think would be great in this format as he lets you get around. I've always loved that set up on him. If your team mate is taking some razorbacks for his infantry this would be a nice team up. If your devilfish was all alone it's really the only target begging for a lascannon shot. I'd make sure I was filling up the final two Fish slots with drones on the breachers. they'd be objective secured and able to help keep your commanders/crisis suits stick around as your fish will probably get close enough so when you let them off they can get within savior protocol range.
All empires fall you just have to know where to push

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Yojimbob
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Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#5 » Feb 05 2018 02:04

2 QFC's shield drones
2 12 man fw with 2 gun drones each ui with a light
10 pathfinder squad 2 shiled drones and a PAC
3 crisis with triple plasma each and a DC with 6 gun drones

953 with that so you can add a MP turret to the fw or add some pathfinders or something to fill it out. The restrictions on the force org is just awful for us.

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Draaen
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 158

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#6 » Feb 05 2018 05:03

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Hi all!
- I'm only allowed 2 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy support slot(s).
- Only 1 patrol detachment so Command Points are set at 3 per player.


Just to make sure does the packet say 1 patrol detachment or does it say 2 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy support slot(s)? Patrol detachment has 2 slots for everything and 1-3 troops.

Assuming the 1 slot restriction on not the patrol with what you've said with some of your restrictions I would consider going with something like this. Especially if your ally is going to be right in your opponents grill so that he can help shut down return shooting and make your big unit of suits not be the sole target.

Total Points - 1000
Commander - 3 X FB, 1 X MT, 2 X Shield Drones (157 pts)
Commander - 3 X FB, 1 X MT 2 X Marker Drones (161 pts)
8 Pathfinders with markerlights - (64 pts)
5 Fire Warriors - 1 Markerlight (43 pts)
5 Fire Warriors - 1 Markerlight (43 pts)
6 Crisis Suits - 17 X Plasma Rifles, 1 X DC 11 X Gun Drones (532 pts)

All your markerlights will focus on a main target you want to remove with the crisis suits. Ideally they hide behind a deep striking assault force from the blood angels and can help protect them with over watch. You should be able to weather any return fire with a total of 15 drones if you put your commanders in the deep strike pile. Not to mention that is 44 shots from the drones when they come down. You have 12 BS 4+ Markerlight sources if the marker drones come down close enough to the Drone controller in 4 squads. This will give you a decent shot of hitting 5+ markerlights turns 1-2 and a very good chance for re-roll 1's until the end game. You'll threaten hordes, big vehicles and elite infantry while being durable with a great alpha/beta strike.
All empires fall you just have to know where to push

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#7 » Feb 06 2018 04:46

Hi guys!

Thanks for the feedback so far! I'll clarify the rules restrictions a bit better here, apologies for not really making it clear what I'm allowed as a minimum.

It's a patrol detachments but modified a little. Essentially the bare minimum is 1HQ and 1 Troops choice. I'm then allowed another HQ + Troops choice, an Elite, a Fast Attack, a Heavy Support and a Flier choice. I must take each one of these before I can take a second slot in any of them (or a third troops choice). My problem is, I don't have any fliers. So I'm stuck with the 2 HQ, 2 Troops, and one of each other choice.

I did consider maxing out a crisis team, but I only have 3 of each kind with no magnetisation on them :( So I've got 3 plasma suits, 3 flamer suits, and 3 Fusion suits. It's not exactly ideal really.

I'll give a run down of what models I have at the moment:
HQ:
2 Tri Fusion + Shield Commanders (no 4th Fusion blaster)
2 Coldstar conversions
1 Coldstar commander
1 Tri missile + ATS commander
Farsight
R'Myr
Longstrike
Ethereal
Converted Fireblade

Troops:
10 Breachers
30 Strike Fire Warriors
10 Kroot

Elites:
12 Crisis suits (3 plasma suits, 3 flamer suits, 3 Fusion suits, 3 old fireknife configured ones)
1 CIB Ghostkeel
1 IA Riptide (lol)
10 Stealthsuits (1 fusion)

Fast Attack:
Y'Vahra (although no FW models in this tournament :( )
20+ Pathfinders with lots of Rail and a few Ion
around 20 drones, mostly Gun drones and 1/2 marker + shield
2 Pirahnas (1 Fusion + 1 Burst)

Heavy Support:
2 old converted Missile sides
2 New Missilesides
1 Railside
2 Rail Hammerheads (one can beswitched to Ion or made to be a devilfish)


I think that's all. So I've a few options but ultimately not much to work with. The inability to use the Y'Vahra has really hurt me I think.

As for my partner, he'll be able to run a max size squad of Death Company, or a maxed out Sanguinary guard unit. He's probably taking the Sanguinary guard, an Ancient with the Banner relic, a squad of Intercessors, maybe a flier, a beatstick HQ of some kind, Inceptors, devastators/baal pred. I've not had a chance to speak to him but that's what I think his list will look like. The lack of elites is really hurting us both I think, but the idea is that he can use his combat units to get stuck in with really really reliable charges (seriously Blood Angels are just silly at that haha). I'll know more detail soon though!

Thanks for everything so far!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
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Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#8 » Feb 06 2018 05:21

Fascinating rules! Two HQs is plenty to work with at 1000 points, but it's the Fast Attack limitation that's tricky, since it means fewer drones. We can fit more drones in on XV8s, and play aggressively backed up by the seriously punchy Blood Angels allies.

The most important thing will be to confirm that your ally has a balanced list- it he's bringing 90% anti-tank and expects you to shoulder the anti-infantry we will need to know that as soon as possible. Anyway, assuming the Blood Angels are fielding a good mix of units and have some solid synergies in mind, there's nothing to worry about.

Anyway, let's think about what you'll be facing. No Knights, no Primarchs, no Baneblades, in fact no Lords of War at all. The big threats will be heavy vehicles and super-elite units, like Land Raiders, Custodians, Dreadknights, Greater Daemons, that sort of thing. There's definitely the potential to build some crazy synergies here, as Eldar and Death Guard shenanigans will be fully-functional even with the restrictions. Tell your ally to bring a Librarian if possible.

Two Fusion Commanders will definitely be viable, since the list restrictions favor big choices (MSU is impossible). Expect to see powerful single units (Dreadnoughts, Dunecrawlers, Carnifexes), huge blobs (Poxwalkers, Cultists, Daemons), and deathstars (Chaos Terminators, Hellblasters, Custodes).

In this list I'd want to take Commanders, Fire Warriors, XV8s, and Pathfinders. I'm going to assume WYSIWYG is in, so that means no CIBs, right? Anyway, here's a sample list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (67)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (67)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 10x Markerlights (80)
Heavy Support - Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Plasma Rifles, Target Lock; 2x Shield Drones (187)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

Basically, the way I see it is, HQs are full, adding more infantry isn't worth it, Elites and Fast Attack is full, the only option is Heavy Support. For Heavy Support I think a Broadside with Shield Drones is your best bet. I'd be willing to hear arguments for Hammerheads of course though.

Anyway, what do you think?

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#9 » Feb 06 2018 08:19

Arka0415 wrote:Fascinating rules! Two HQs is plenty to work with at 1000 points, but it's the Fast Attack limitation that's tricky, since it means fewer drones. We can fit more drones in on XV8s, and play aggressively backed up by the seriously punchy Blood Angels allies.

The most important thing will be to confirm that your ally has a balanced list- it he's bringing 90% anti-tank and expects you to shoulder the anti-infantry we will need to know that as soon as possible. Anyway, assuming the Blood Angels are fielding a good mix of units and have some solid synergies in mind, there's nothing to worry about.

Anyway, let's think about what you'll be facing. No Knights, no Primarchs, no Baneblades, in fact no Lords of War at all. The big threats will be heavy vehicles and super-elite units, like Land Raiders, Custodians, Dreadknights, Greater Daemons, that sort of thing. There's definitely the potential to build some crazy synergies here, as Eldar and Death Guard shenanigans will be fully-functional even with the restrictions. Tell your ally to bring a Librarian if possible.

Two Fusion Commanders will definitely be viable, since the list restrictions favor big choices (MSU is impossible). Expect to see powerful single units (Dreadnoughts, Dunecrawlers, Carnifexes), huge blobs (Poxwalkers, Cultists, Daemons), and deathstars (Chaos Terminators, Hellblasters, Custodes).

In this list I'd want to take Commanders, Fire Warriors, XV8s, and Pathfinders. I'm going to assume WYSIWYG is in, so that means no CIBs, right? Anyway, here's a sample list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (67)
Troops - 6x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (67)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 10x Markerlights (80)
Heavy Support - Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Plasma Rifles, Target Lock; 2x Shield Drones (187)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

Basically, the way I see it is, HQs are full, adding more infantry isn't worth it, Elites and Fast Attack is full, the only option is Heavy Support. For Heavy Support I think a Broadside with Shield Drones is your best bet. I'd be willing to hear arguments for Hammerheads of course though.

Anyway, what do you think?


Hi Arka! Glad to see your input! I think you raise a good point about making sure I consider what hard targets I'm likely to face. The twin Fusion commanders can very likely handle a single hard target per turn between the two, I imagine that they could fairly reliably kill a LR in one go with a P.E.N re-roll and a CP re-roll. I'm just really not sure whether I want the Coldstar's manoeuvrability though. The ability to almost guarantee shutting down an enemy shooting unit is excellent. Plus the ability to assassinate enemy characters is so good. Then again I might need all the anti tank I can get. The restrictions mean that it's hard for both of us to focus on any one element. My partner will likely be able to bring a few lascannon shots and his Sanguinary Guard, but the rest will likely be anti medium-light.

It's frustrating I can't get any CIB's in time, because they would be perfect for the TAC approach. The Broadside is interesting, but I just squirm in using it! If I gave it a Shield generator rather than TL it would be an excellent objective camper if backed up by some obsec troops. Alternatively I reckon we'll see a fair amount of FLY keyword units so a VT would also be really good.

My only problem with the Plasma suits is that they add another very hungry ML unit to my force. I know the footslogging/manta flamers will be doing nothing on turn one most likely, but I think they'll be ignored for the most part, letting them either respond to assaults and back up my BA partner units. Ultimately I don't think they lose much shooting against a charging army due to the fact that their overwatch makes up for it. Against shooting they'd deploy from the Manta as a screen for the commander(s) or position to threaten something else. They're not as good at front loading damage, but once those markerlights fall as the game goes on I think it might be worth having them able to keep operating at max efficiency. I reckon I'll want markers on the broadsides target if I take one. It's a hard call, and I suspect you're right in suggesting the plasma suits, but I've found the plasma AP to be wasted on a large number of opponents. Any daemons, Harlequins, Custodes, DE, Orks, etc just don't care about the AP. Wheras the flamers are always gunna be hurting stuff (except turn 1 haha).

Do you think Breachers could be good here? Even if they were footslogging and advancing?

Cheers! R'kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
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Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#10 » Feb 06 2018 08:29

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:The Broadside is interesting, but I just squirm in using it! If I gave it a Shield generator rather than TL it would be an excellent objective camper if backed up by some obsec troops. Alternatively I reckon we'll see a fair amount of FLY keyword units so a VT would also be really good.

Here's something to think about. Here's the maximum firepower build you could do:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blasters, Shield Generator; 2x Shield Drones (163)
Troops - 12x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (115)
Troops - 12x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (115)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 10x Markerlights; 2x Gun Drones (96)

Total: 925 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

Now what? I guess you could add a few Pathfinder drones or Support Turrets but those really aren't all that competitive. The issue is the need to use that Heavy Support slot. I guess we could also add a 4th XV8, if you're interested in that.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:My partner will likely be able to bring a few lascannon shots and his Sanguinary Guard, but the rest will likely be anti medium-light.

This is why you aren't going to need Flamers. Between your Fire Warriors and his power-armored meat grinders, hordes aren't going to be much trouble I think. Rather, you want the ability to knock out elite troops- Blood Angels will be able to do that, but most likely with one Sanguinary Guard or Death Company godsquad.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Do you think Breachers could be good here? Even if they were footslogging and advancing?

Absolutely. Squad of 10 with Guardian/Shield or Gun/Gun wound be a good use of a troop slot, especially with greater threats on the field (Blood Angels).

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steelmanf
Shas'Saal
Posts: 57

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#11 » Feb 06 2018 11:06

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Hi guys!
Elites:
12 Crisis suits (3 plasma suits, 3 flamer suits, 3 Fusion suits, 3 old fireknife configured ones)
1 CIB Ghostkeel
1 IA Riptide (lol)
10 Stealthsuits (1 fusion)


So depending on what exactly your ally is bringing, and if you really need that extra anti-armor boost, may I suggest a large Crisis squad of 5?

3x Fusion Suits and 2x Flamer suits + 10 gun drones, or 8 gun/2 shield
- tons of anti-armor
- flamers to help prevent assaults/horde control
- flamer suits ultimately die first to protect your much more valuable fusions
- very aggressive playstyle, get in the thick and right where flamers can hit things and fusions can melta things
- more drones, more pew pew

OR

3x Fusion suits and 2x plasma suits + 10 gun drones, or 8 gun/2 shield
-same as above, but less aggressive, less capable of handling charges
-plasma and fusion can also synergize to take out high save models together at a slightly larger distance (assuming rapid fire on plasma)

Feel free to move those number around a bit as you see fit, but these are just some "top-of-my-head" type suggestions. Yes, morale could be an issue, so Mantra Strike is almost required for either option. I just don't think you'll get much mileage out of that Heavy Support slot, and I'm afraid the Strike Teams may also suffer from not being able to make enough of a dent, though your Breachers could be entertaining. I'm guessing you don't have a Devilfish; that should be a free slot if you had one for your Breachers to ride around in.

Just throwing another option out for you, though the previous posts look like they'd work well, too.

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Draaen
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 158

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#12 » Feb 06 2018 12:53

I really like Arka's list with that railside. I love that configuration as you can hide him behind LOS blocking terrain 1st turn so you always get to use him at least once. He also is deadly if someone gets close or you move him up to midfield.

Due to the format I suspect you will see 1-2 flyers per game. This will pose a bit of a challenge to your ally to deal with if you go second as their devastators or predator will be targeted with great prejudice. More than likely he will only get one shot at taking the flyer down in melee and he'd rather be killing other things. So probably he will look to you to help cover that gap. Your commanders are really good at that role when they come down but again the flyer is probably going to be able to move far enough so you can't shoot him. Further if you go turn 1 it may be the delivery system so killing it turn 1 will be important and it could be further in the backfield making it hard to get it in range. So I'd recommend thinking about taking your fire knives with velocity tracker. Most flyers have T6 so you'd end up doing a good amount of damage. So the fire knives are a good safety option vs flyers.

So with that in mind I would consider this.

Total Points - 9998
Commander - 3 X FB, 1 X MT, 2 X Shield Drones (157 pts)
Commander - 3 X FB, 1 X MT, 2 X Shield Drones (157 pts)
6 Pathfinders with markerlights - (48 pts)
5 Fire Warriors - 1 Markerlight (43 pts)
5 Fire Warriors - 1 Markerlight (43 pts)
6 Crisis Suits - 3 with 3 X Plasma Rifles each, 3 Fireknives with 1 X Velocity Tracker each, 11 X Gun Drones (550 pts)

You would crack open flyer transports for the blood angels to get to the gooey interior and is still good against elite units with an added edge vs models with fly and you can operate easily within the plasma threat band and put your missile pod shots on whatever you care about most. Wouldn't normally recommend that load out but I think it works in this format.
All empires fall you just have to know where to push

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#13 » Feb 08 2018 05:19

Hi All!

Thanks for all the advice and feedback! It seems there's no clear way for me to go. I'm going to playtest 2 of the lists I'm thinking about tonight so I'll see how each one plays and feels. I'm going to take one that's a bit more fluffy and maybe a bit more fun to use, and one that I think is truly as optimised as I'm gunna get.

Fluffy but Fun:

HQ
Tri-Fusion Commander w/shield generator + 2 shield drones - 163
Coldstar Commander w/ATS, Shield Generator - 150

Troops
Strike team x 8 w/markerlight - 67
Breacher team x 8 - 64

Fast Attack
Vespid x 8 - 120 (Proxy/conversions from old stealthsuits)

Elites
Crisis team x 3 w/6x Flamers, 3 ATS + 6 Gun drones - 252

Heavy Support
Broadside w/ HRR, Twin-Plasma, VT + 2 shield drones - 183

Total: 999

Optimised

HQ
Tri Fusion Commander w/Shield Generator + 2 Shield Drones - 163
Tri Fusion Commander w/Shield Generator + 2 Shield Drones - 163

Troops
Strike team x 8 - 64
Strike team x 8 - 64

Fast Attack
Pathfinders x 8 w/ Pulse accelerator drone, 2 Gun drones - 88

Elites
Crisis team x 3 w/9 Plasma rifles + 6 gun drones - 273

Heavy Support
Broadside w/ HRR, Twin-Plasma, VT + 2 shield drones - 183

I've realised that I can probably use vespid here because I'll be able to convert them appropriately from old stealthsuits. Does this change things up a bit? I think the 2nd list really gives a decent amount of anti armour here which my Blood Angels ally may lack. Or it certainly allows him to concentrate on elite killing. His big squad of sanguinary guard will likely be able to kill anything short of a Land Raider they get into combat with when combined with an ancient and the warlord(special re-roll hits when near the warlord).

I know I need the extra firepower of the 2nd Fusion commander, I just love the utility of the Coldstar. Being able to go anywhere at will is amazing and he's no slouch at helping clear chaff which is going to be an important role for me to be able to do.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on these two lists and the addition of the Vespid option! Is it worth just canning the markerlights altogether?

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#14 » Feb 09 2018 05:58

Hi all!

So I had a practice game last night with my partner against an Eldar/Cadian team. Overall I ended up taking something quite different that ended up working really well. I'll go over the lists as best I can remember!

Tau:
Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator, 2 Marker Drones - 167
Commander w/ 3x Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator, 2 Marker Drones - 167
Strike team x 7 w/ Markerlight, 2 Marker Drones - 79
Strike team x 7 w/ Markerlight, 2 Marker Drones - 79
Vespid x 10 - 150
Crisis team x 4 w/ 11 plasma, 1 DC, 8 Gun drones - 358

Blood Angels:
Lemartes
Librarian w/ Jump pack, force sword, plasma pistol, wings relic(no overwatch and re-roll charges)
15 Death Company w/ 2 thunder hammers, 2 power fists, 1 power sword, 13 boltguns
Stormtalon w/ twin assault cannon, Lascannons (can't quite remember)
Scouts x 5 w/ camo cloaks, sniper rifles
Scouts x 5 w/ camo cloaks, sniper rifles

VS

[b][/Aeldari(Alaitoc):b]
Farseer
Ilic Nightspear
Wave serpent w/3 shurikan cannons
Wave serpent w/3 shurikan cannons
Rangers x 5
Rangers x 5
Dark Reapers x 10
Hemlock Wraith fighter (the auto hit D-flamer flier)

[b][/Astra Militarum(Cadia):b]
Pask w/battle cannon, 2 Heavy Bolters, Lascannon
Tank Commander w/ battle cannon, 2 Heavy Bolters, Lascannon
Infantry squad x 10 w/ Mortar team
Infantry squad x 10 w/ Mortar team
Rough Riders x 5 w/ 4 plasma guns
Leman Russ x 2 w/ 2 battlecannons, 4 heavy bolters, 2 lascannons

The game went pretty well, and it was just a friendly. It was dawn of war deployment and an eternal war mission that ultimately didn't matter. Opponents got first turn.

Essentially they castled up with the 2 russes and the tank commander in the far left corner of the board, pask went a bit more centrally and the wave serpents deployed to the right of pask. The reapers, illic, farseer all went in a ruin next to the Russes in the corner. Rangers formed a screen and guard infantry planted in the middle.

We managed to deploy most things in reserves, with only 2 squads of fire warriors hiding behind cover, 2 squads of scouts infiltrating on objectives and his flier in the far back corner. My Vespid deployed out of LOS on the left.

Turn 1:
He opened up with everything and flew his flier over right next to the Stormtalon resulting in a dead Stormtalon, a wiped fire warrior squad, and 2 dead marker drones along with a couple dead scouts.

In our turn, I moved the vespid up to ruin his screen, my partner dropped his DC bomb with the two characters just behind them. I dropped a commander next to the Vespid, and one in the far right corner to take out his flier. I held back the crisis team. The strike team also moved up. I shot and killed the flier with the commander, killed a wave serpent with the other, killed a unit of rangers with Vespid, some guardsmen with FW, and my partner blenderised the ranger screen in front of him and managed to consolidate into a russ and the tank commander in the back.

Turn 2:
He fell back with the russes and everything else stood still. A combination of various firepower resulted in a dead librarian, dead death company and a couple Vespid splatted.

I Dropped my crisis team where the death company were, moved my Strike team/vespid up closer to his lines in a crater for cover, Moved my commanders closer to his lines, Lemartes moved up next to Illic and his scouts moved to engage a guardsman unit. My vespid, with the aid of 5 markerlights on his Dark reapers, utterly annihilated them. one commander was only in range of guardsmen so melted three of them, my other commander put only 4 wounds on Pask, the Strike team finished off a guardsman unit, The crisis drones opened up on the farseer and wiped her, the crisis suits took pot shots at pask and stripped another 4 wounds. Lemartes charged and punched Nightspear to death. The scouts punched the remaining guardsmen to death.

Turn 3:
In summary, he opened up everything on my crisis suits, and managed to kill them to a man due to some amazing rolling on his part, but nothing else was touched.

My vespid moved right up next to his Russes, My commanders moved up to get a bead on a tank each, the strike teams moved towards an objective and the Blood Angels remaining units moved to objectives aswell. I melted Pask and the hurt the 2nd Wave serpent with the commanders, plinked off some wounds with the Strike team and put several more wounds on a Russ with the Vespid. Lemartes charged one Russ, I charged the Tank commander and the other Russ with the Vespid. By this point he had no way of coming back from being tied up in combat with no units that could take objectives so he conceded.

Thoughts:
Ultimately the Vespid were my MVP's in this game, with a bit of marker support they can really mess heavy infantry up. Commanders did commander things so no surprises there. I really like the inclusion of the Marker drones in various units. Having them dotted around actually worked out really nicely for me. I'm thinking about shifting the marker drones to the crisis team from the Strike teams, but that's a minor change. My partners blood angels can almost guarantee an assault with 3D6 re-rollable charge range with a 2CP stratagem, which is brutal. The only thing I can see hurting us is good screening. Holding off the bombs we have to clear screening is probably the way to go here. I suggested holding off a bit but my partner thought it would be worth it to drop in and tie up the russes. Potato Potato.

Let me know what you guys think! Are there any changes you'd suggest to this list? Maybe Fusion blasters on the Crisis team?

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

User avatar
Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 576

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#15 » Feb 09 2018 08:50

I have found Blood Angels players feel like because they CAN be in combat means they SHOULD be in combat but yes, you're assessment of clearing the screening units first is far more important. The problem being if you don't clear them you can't hold off yet another turn and you would have been better off dropping turn 1 than turn 3. You'll take a bit more damage seeing how you'll be absorbing a second turn from untouched tanks BUT when you drop on your T2 you should be able to wipe several of them effectively crushing their back lines ending the game pretty much right there since you'll have DC just ruining the table. Good playing overall though.

I personally like having CIB's on crisis since you get a decent ROF from 3 of them with 3 guns. They hit 18/36 with 0ML, 21/36 on 1ML, and a whopping 28/36 with 5ML (also known as effectively bs2+) and when the squad gets 27 shots you're going to land a lot of them. Dead things everywhere. The trick is getting those 5ML so good luck there.

User avatar
Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 140

Re: "Friendly" Local 2v2 tournament

Post#16 » Feb 09 2018 11:14

Yojimbob wrote:I have found Blood Angels players feel like because they CAN be in combat means they SHOULD be in combat but yes, you're assessment of clearing the screening units first is far more important. The problem being if you don't clear them you can't hold off yet another turn and you would have been better off dropping turn 1 than turn 3. You'll take a bit more damage seeing how you'll be absorbing a second turn from untouched tanks BUT when you drop on your T2 you should be able to wipe several of them effectively crushing their back lines ending the game pretty much right there since you'll have DC just ruining the table. Good playing overall though.

I personally like having CIB's on crisis since you get a decent ROF from 3 of them with 3 guns. They hit 18/36 with 0ML, 21/36 on 1ML, and a whopping 28/36 with 5ML (also known as effectively bs2+) and when the squad gets 27 shots you're going to land a lot of them. Dead things everywhere. The trick is getting those 5ML so good luck there.


Thanks for the feedback! My partner is a much newer player than me so sometimes he gets excited and jumps the gun a bit :D .

I'm totally with you on the CIB's. If I had CIB Crisis I'd absolutely take them, but I'll be holding off until the codex is out before I see about getting any. Till then I can get by with my Fusion commadners and Y'Vahra in normal games :) Plasma crisis aren't exactly brilliant but they help clearing an objective pretty nicely if I need them. They're the best option I have I think.

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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