Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Discuss Tau background and even your own Cadre fiction here.
User avatar
Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1515

Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#1 » Oct 16 2015 05:24

I've been painting up my Morralian Deathsworn and I've been spending a lot of time getting the traditional Firewarrior shoulder guard to work with the buffer muscles of the models I'm using (Morat from Infinity) when I realized I was wasting my time as the sybol for the Tau Empire/Commonwealth has changed.

As per the last codex, the symbol for T'au has lost the lower 'I' stem and is unique to itself. The symbol that's emblazoned all over the models is actually the symbol for the Fire Caste.

For those of us that like to build Auxiliary races I think this might pose a problem. The Vespid Strain Leader has the symbol on his/her/it's chest- but I don't believe that an Auxiliary would have one as it's not a member of the Fire Caste and this is probably because the model came from the previous codex.

So the question- what symbol would the Auxiliaries place on their armor?

Additionally, is there a symbol for the Empire the ATT community might have any theories on that represents all of the Septs, or, do the Septs stand for themselves in their 'symbology'.

ps- I've looked for a link to the new T'au symbol and have only found the original (Fire Caste) one but if you turn to your codex, page 11, you can see the change.
~Good Hunting

User avatar
Kakapo42
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 990

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#2 » Oct 16 2015 05:49

I'm separated from my 40k background material at the moment (including the 6th edition codex), so I can't say for sure, but I was always under the impression that the symbol change was just for the T'au sept itself, and not for the Empire at large? So The traditional 'circle and line' symbol is still used for the entire Tau Empire, and the Fire Caste, but the T'au sept uses the newer line-less symbol.

At any rate I myself generally ignore that particular retcon (much like the revised Tau interstellar travel background) due to logistics, since my understanding has always been that all the caste insignias were sept-specific and adopted the 'pattern' of their particular sept with the appropriate border. So, for example, the Vior'la Air Caste symbol would feature two circles connected by a diagonal line inside a triangular border. There is precedent for this, as it's depicted as being the case in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, the Tau section of which features several variant Air Caste logos based on different septs, and as I tend to base most of my background on Battlefleet Gothic background material more than 40k background material (I.E. if there's a clash between Battlefleet Gothic background and 40k background, the Battlefleet Gothic version takes priority for me), that's an important source.

(The other reason of course is aesthetics - I personally think the version with a line underneath the top circle looks cooler. :) )

Of course, anything could happen with the background in the new codex, so watch this space, although from the looks of the transfer sheet it would appear that the line-less T'au symbol is here to stay.
A Shas and a Kor walk into a bar...
Naked Metal

User avatar
ARC'Thunder
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 850

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#3 » Oct 16 2015 08:32

Image

I think, for the purposes of the models, it would make a level of sense for some auxiliaries to adopt the symbol of the Fire Caste. Vespid and Kroot function as a part of the Empire military, and they operate under the command of the Shas'uash'o or Shas'ar'tol before they operate as their own race or faction within the Empire.
Codex: Tau Empire, 4th ed. pg 22 wrote:CADRE (TAU: KAU'UI)
... Auxiliary troops such as Kroot Carnivores may be attached for a tactical role, being administrationally detached from a higher level such as a Command.
For other auxiliaries that might serve in other aspects of the Empire, I might expect them to adopt the caste symbol that best reflects their roles within the Empire. Nicassar, for example, may use the kor symbol or some variant thereof. Nagi, perhaps use a por symbol when possible or appropriate. Gue'vesa may wear as symbol dependent on their adopted jobs: shas for soldiers, kor for starship crew, fio for laborers, etc.

Calmsword wrote:Additionally, is there a symbol for the Empire the ATT community might have any theories on that represents all of the Septs, or, do the Septs stand for themselves in their 'symbology'.
I imagine the symbol of the Empire itself would be the symbol for T'au. One of the beautiful aspects of that change is the representation of a mostly whole circle, undivided by that negative space. It promotes a sense of inclusiveness where the individual caste symbols have a more visual "separation" of parts; we are five castes, one people and all that jazz.

Kakapo42 wrote:At any rate I myself generally ignore that particular retcon (much like the revised Tau interstellar travel background) due to logistics, since my understanding has always been that all the caste insignias were sept-specific and adopted the 'pattern' of their particular sept with the appropriate border. So, for example, the Vior'la Air Caste symbol would feature two circles connected by a diagonal line inside a triangular border.
I don't disagree with this idea, but certainly for production purposes this isn't represented on the models (that's what transfers and freehand are for!). I suspect in the context of the fluff, it may be that certain events or uniforms call for different versions of those symbols.

User avatar
Lyi'ot
Por'O
Por'O
Posts: 2730

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#4 » Oct 16 2015 09:00

ARC'Thunder wrote:I imagine the symbol of the Empire itself would be the symbol for T'au. One of the beautiful aspects of that change is the representation of a mostly whole circle, undivided by that negative space. It promotes a sense of inclusiveness where the individual caste symbols have a more visual "separation" of parts; we are five castes, one people and all that jazz.
I've been annoyed at this retcon for a while, but reading your comment and looking at the icon you posted finally made it click for me -- you're right, the visual unity is there.

(But I still like the Fire Caste wearing the symbol of the entire empire into battle even more. :( )

Kakapo42 wrote:At any rate I myself generally ignore that particular retcon (much like the revised Tau interstellar travel background) due to logistics, since my understanding has always been that all the caste insignias were sept-specific and adopted the 'pattern' of their particular sept with the appropriate border. So, for example, the Vior'la Air Caste symbol would feature two circles connected by a diagonal line inside a triangular border.
I hear yah! Once I became a por'o, I asked our beloved Tael if he'd make me a Fal'shia por emblem. I'm still sporting the icon to this day. :D

(Of course, now I'm an Enclave loyalist through-and-through, so I might need to ask for a new icon...)

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#5 » Oct 17 2015 02:01

Lyi'ot wrote:(Of course, now I'm an Enclave loyalist through-and-through, so I might need to ask for a new icon...)

Interesting.
I ami actually doing the sept symboles for all castes for my Tau font (get the current on the Resource forum).
so you may be able to create a FE por symbole soon.
PM if you want something specific.

User avatar
Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1515

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#6 » Oct 17 2015 03:30

[quote:ARC'Thunder]For other auxiliaries that might serve in other aspects of the Empire, I might expect them to adopt the caste symbol that best reflects their roles within the Empire. Nicassar, for example, may use the kor symbol or some variant thereof. Nagi, perhaps use a por symbol when possible or appropriate. Gue'vesa may wear as symbol dependent on their adopted jobs: shas for soldiers, kor for starship crew, fio for laborers, etc.[/quote]

Agreed.

So the T'au Sept symbol would be acceptable to everyone (in the current conversation) to represent the Septs as a whole?
~Good Hunting

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#7 » Oct 18 2015 09:26

I don't want to open up a new topic since this one seems good for inputs before adding the caste symbols to my font.
Here is the preview of all Septs with caste variation.

EARTH
Image

WATER
Image

FIRE
Image

AIR
Image

Only the avatar can master all ...
Oops :P

ETHEREAL
Image

Notes:
- Angles of Ethereal and Air markings are different (Pentagons or Triangles with 45° stripes are awkward)
- I am asking myself to add elongated shapes for Earth, Water and Ethereal. Does they are needed ?
- Can't wait my font and want bigger pictures of specific Sept+Caste+Color ? PM me.
- I will release the SVG source once the font is done.

Comments are welcome.

User avatar
ShasODerpy
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 742

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#8 » Oct 18 2015 10:43

Those are great!, Already getting some idea's on how I would apply these as possible transfers on some Earth/Air/Ethereal specific models.
You even did an Enclave Ethereal :biggrin:

I'll try to be patient until your Font is complete



As for Sept symbols, I've never been decisive on my Army fluff (Homeworld etc.)
The Emblem change fits perfectly for me, as I no longer have to worry about converting/changing the default Emblem to represent their Homeworld, because it now represents the Fire Caste as a whole.

-Derp
Shas'O 50mm, the Foresighted
WIP Tau

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#9 » Oct 18 2015 12:57

Thanks. Transfers will be easy to do (the white background is the only thing that need specific printers)

Enclave Ethereals may exists, we only knows that the firsts were killed, but nothing says about other joining (Aun'shi is told to have traveled back and forth).
And the real reason of this symbol is because it's a matter of 2 minutes work to add this symbol (I also drawn my two custom sept symbols)

Anyway, I've done the slender Earth, Water and Ethereal:

EARTH (Slender)
Image

WATER (Slender)
Image

ETHEREAL (Slender)
Image

(I am not 100% satisfied with the angled markings on some, but they are difficult to get in a good composition)

User avatar
Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1515

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#10 » Oct 18 2015 02:19

I suppose it is possible that some Ethereals exist in the Enclaves. Good enough for me.

What program are you using? These are incredible!

Any chance of getting a personalized Commander symbol?
~Good Hunting

User avatar
KuroRyu
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 284
Contact:

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#11 » Oct 18 2015 02:33

Kael'yn wrote:Thanks. Transfers will be easy to do (the white background is the only thing that need specific printers)

Enclave Ethereals may exists, we only knows that the firsts were killed, but nothing says about other joining (Aun'shi is told to have traveled back and forth).


We know that Ethereals aren't welcome in the enclaves, Aun'shi is the only exception.

That isn't the point though, this is really cool stuff. Never noticed before how similar the Enclaves symbol is to D'yanoi's

Also I agree with the theory that Empire auxiliaries adopt the symbol of the caste they are auxiliary to. Like Vespid with fire caste symbols.

I also agree with the idea that the empire as a whole uses the old T'au sept marking to represent itself.
It makes sense that a growing empire would, in an effort to include all of the various races they've adopted, make a distinction between the symbol of their empire and the symbol of their capitol world.

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#12 » Oct 18 2015 03:36

KuroRyu wrote:That isn't the point though, this is really cool stuff. Never noticed before how similar the Enclaves symbol is to D'yanoi's
It appears to me too when doing these symbols...

Calmsword wrote:What program are you using? These are incredible!
Inkscape (Free and open-source vector drawing program) : https://inkscape.org/en/
I dropped Paint and the like long time ago to this for doing schematics, logos, ...




All the symbols here: (some tweaking was needed on some and I am not satisfied with others, so it is not the final version, just):
Image



I've added a variant of these with a Sept-colored ring around and basic shaded symbols (the round are done, others are tests only):
Image



Grab them in the zip archive here (each Sept image are around 120 px wide):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/fa2t7z9sziyxvmf/W40kTau_Caste%26SeptSymbols.zip
(The last two are custom sept symbols, the first is my own sept symbol, the other was a test)

I will release the SVG vector file source once the font will be achieved and it will be released on my font topic.

These images and the download link will be reposted later on my font topic : http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18653
So, to not hijack this thread any longer, please PM me for anything regarding these Sept symbols.

Calmsword wrote:Any chance of getting a personalized Commander symbol?
It is the least I can do after jumping on your thread with these symbols... ;)
PM me with the details: colors, symbol, decorations (letters in a ring around, tech-like shapes, ... ), ... See my avatar and my template pattern: they are done too with Inkscape, so you can have some ideas.

User avatar
ARC'Thunder
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 850

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#13 » Oct 18 2015 08:28

Kael'yn wrote:Angles of Ethereal and Air markings are different (Pentagons or Triangles with 45° stripes are awkward)
Kael'yn wrote:(I am not 100% satisfied with the angled markings on some, but they are difficult to get in a good composition)
If it's any consolation, I actually like the disjointed angles created when you pair up the different shapes with the angled sept symbols. For example, the slender Earth Caste Tash'var symbol has an almost artistic feel to it—like modern architecture for breaking up large spaces—such a feel seems entirely appropriate for the Tau.

So, I think these are fantastic. Excellent work Kael'yn.

EDIT: I also wanted to say that these will be fantastic for printing out custom transfers. My army is Tash'var, but I was thinking of having small Fal'shia symbols printed on some of the hardware (perhaps like the Tidewall or the DS8s) almost like a manufacturing label.

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#14 » Oct 24 2015 03:25

ARC'Thunder wrote:If it's any consolation, I actually like the disjointed angles created when you pair up the different shapes with the angled sept symbols. For example, the slender Earth Caste Tash'var symbol has an almost artistic feel to it—like modern architecture for breaking up large spaces—such a feel seems entirely appropriate for the Tau.


I was thinking of tweaking Dyan'oi (the two round "bites" seems too big on the markings), readjusting others to match closerly the original concept.
As for disjointed angles, it was a way to keep the shape of symbols while remaining nice to the eye.

Printing transfers will be cool. Even if GW offer brand new decals now (which gaves me other ideas for markings), having those you want in the right color and size is a good thing.

Oh, btw, I see that Mu'gulath bay is now a full sept with a new symbol (see it on the GW Limited Edition of codex, lower right).
Image
Here it is added (full size here, just download it to add to my collection):
Image
I will update the font soon.

User avatar
Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1515

Re: Symbol for the Empire (Discussion)

Post#15 » Oct 24 2015 05:27

Beautiful. That was a quick turnaround.

Did anyone get a chance of ordering one of those? Hopefully the information will be in all of the codexes.
~Good Hunting

Return to “Library”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests