The Tau Sorcerer

Discuss Tau background and even your own Cadre fiction here.
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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#37 » Aug 09 2017 08:59

Shas'O Bentu'nan wrote:Remember that the warp predates the gods of chaos. Not all the warp IS chaos.

That's true and at the same time it is not. Time is a fiddly concept for the warp. Slaanesh also always existed but still got bourne at some point by the Eldar.
Time is a concept of the Marterium. The warp works differently.

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Val'Sitsor
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#38 » Aug 09 2017 10:29

Pottsey wrote:Just last night I was reading one of the books and there is a Tau Sorcerer. The Water Caste Tau Por Malcaor also known as The Water Spider is a Tau who can use warp powers.


No, he doesn’t count. He is a demon who possessed tau due to incident with Geller’s Field Generator, not tau. And of course daemon of Tzeentch can use sorcery, but this said daemon admitted that due to tau body being so inert to the warp he had to spent much more time to return his abilities and to start using them. Even Phill Kelly isn’t THAT bad to create tau chaos sorcerer.
On the other hand, Farsaight banished said daemon in this book by drawing hexagrammatic symbol on vessel’s body. And banishment is a form of sorcery too. But this is Phill Kelly we talking about. In his view Shadowsun and Farsight are more warp sensitive than other tau. Shadowsun likes ghost stories and claims to had seen ghosts, and more over – picked up “voices” on the Agrelaan. Farsight has visions of Dawnblade and hexagrammatic talismans every time he is exposed to warp energy and has dreams about them and so on.

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#39 » Aug 09 2017 10:36

Okay that information changes everything lol
Why say he's a sorcerer when he was simply possessed by a Daemon. :roll:

Pottsey
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#40 » Aug 11 2017 03:34

Panzer wrote:Okay that information changes everything lol
Why say he's a sorcerer when he was simply possessed by a Daemon. :roll:

It was stated earlier on that there are two types the first natural pskyers that draw power from the warp and the second is warp sorcery where the power comes from a demon.

There are pskyers and sorcerers which are not the same thing and that Tau was very much a sorcerer that got his powers from a daemon and later possessed by the same Daemon as the deamon got stronger. Which is just how it is with a lot of sorcerers. This was not about Tau Pskyers this was about Tau Sorcerers which although are very rare are out there.

EDIT: Having finished the book Farsight also has pskyer powers now!!!! it’s never explained in detail. He name Farsight isn’t just because he is so good at predicting what an enemy will do and coming up with counters but he really does have the pskyer powers Farsight to see the future. He used his visions of his future to learn about that banishment hexagrammatic symbol. Then he does the banishment symbol spell to defeat the damon in the present. Two powers right there future site and damon banishment.

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#41 » Aug 11 2017 03:57

Pottsey wrote:
Panzer wrote:Okay that information changes everything lol
Why say he's a sorcerer when he was simply possessed by a Daemon. :roll:

It was stated earlier on that there are two types the first natural pskyers that draw power from the warp and the second is warp sorcery where the power comes from a demon.

There are pskyers and sorcerers which are not the same thing and that Tau was very much a sorcerer that got his powers from a daemon and later possessed by the same Daemon as the deamon got stronger. Which is just how it is with a lot of sorcerers. This was not about Tau Pskyers this was about Tau Sorcerers which although are very rare are out there.

EDIT: Having finished the book Farsight also has pskyer powers now!!!! it’s never explained in detail. He name Farsight isn’t just because he is so good at predicting what an enemy will do and coming up with counters but he really does have the pskyer powers Farsight to see the future. He used his visions of his future to learn about that banishment hexagrammatic symbol. Then he does the banishment symbol spell to defeat the damon in the present. Two powers right there future site and damon banishment.

Uhm no offense but you claimed a possessed T'au being a psyker which is far from being the same thing so excuse me when I don't trust your judgement on that matter.

Pottsey
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#42 » Aug 11 2017 04:13

Panzer wrote:
Pottsey wrote:
Panzer wrote:Okay that information changes everything lol
Why say he's a sorcerer when he was simply possessed by a Daemon. :roll:

It was stated earlier on that there are two types the first natural pskyers that draw power from the warp and the second is warp sorcery where the power comes from a demon.

There are pskyers and sorcerers which are not the same thing and that Tau was very much a sorcerer that got his powers from a daemon and later possessed by the same Daemon as the deamon got stronger. Which is just how it is with a lot of sorcerers. This was not about Tau Pskyers this was about Tau Sorcerers which although are very rare are out there.

EDIT: Having finished the book Farsight also has pskyer powers now!!!! it’s never explained in detail. He name Farsight isn’t just because he is so good at predicting what an enemy will do and coming up with counters but he really does have the pskyer powers Farsight to see the future. He used his visions of his future to learn about that banishment hexagrammatic symbol. Then he does the banishment symbol spell to defeat the damon in the present. Two powers right there future site and damon banishment.

Uhm no offense but you claimed a possessed T'au being a psyker which is far from being the same thing so excuse me when I don't trust your judgement on that matter.

It looks to me like you are getting confused between Tau Pysker and Tau Sorcerer. When did I ever say Tau psyker’s? My posts very clearly said Tau Sorcerer which is not the same as a Pysker. As for Farsight well he has used 3 different powers but it’s never explained how.

EDIT: Lots of sorcerers make packs with damons or are damon possessed, that's how they get there powers from the deamon. Pysker and Sorcerer both cast psychic powers but they are not the same thing. Pyskers tend to have natural talent and take power direct from the warp. Sorcerers get the power from others like via deamons.

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#43 » Aug 11 2017 04:36

Pottsey wrote:EDIT: Lots of sorcerers make packs with damons or are damon possessed, that's how they get there powers from the deamon. Pysker and Sorcerer both cast psychic powers but they are not the same thing. Pyskers tend to have natural talent and take power direct from the warp. Sorcerers get the power from others like via deamons.

That's where you are mistaken. You don't need to make a pact with a Daemon to do sorcery. You also don't do any spells.
You perform big rituals that appeal the kind of chaos entity that fits the effect you want to create. You basically amplify that specific aspect of the warp in that place of the marterium and make the warp bleed into the marterium to cause an effect. That's how persons with no psychic abilities and no prior contact to any daemons can summon daemons or cause other affects.
Such rituals can look very differently depending on what one is trying to do, usually take a lot of time to perform and usually involves the contribution of many souls. Like sacrificing millions of people to amplify the warp aspect of Khorne, or having a huge excessive 'party' to amplify the warp aspect of Slaanesh, or infecting and keeping a whole worlds population with various kind of diseases but without letting them die to amplify the warp aspect of Nurgle and so on.

Getting possessed can be a result of someone dabbling in sorcery (or a psyker not being careful enough) or just by chance because a Daemon took interest in a person, but it's not a requirement to do sorcery because when you are possessed by a Daemon you don't exactly do sorcery anymore. The daemon starts to control the nearby warp directly in a way that's not possible for normal people.

And now we come back to the T'au.
To make such a ritual affect the warp so something actually happens is due how the warp and the marterium react to each other. The warp is a mirror to the feelings and thoughts of the beings in the marterium. The higher the warp signature the easier the warp gets influenced. Normal non-psyker humans already need quite a lot people to contribute to make any note worthy effect happen. T'au would need a TON more people to contribute.
Sorcery is not something a single person can do on their own unless they already have a direct connection to the warp (which usually means being a chaos worshipper and being marked by one of the gods). Influencing the warp on your own is what psyker do.

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ArttesThePerishable
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#44 » Aug 11 2017 03:58

Panzer wrote:Normal non-psyker humans already need quite a lot people to contribute to make any note worthy effect happen.


I don't know if this is universally true. Uber Aemos, Inquisitor Eisenhorn's savant, was capable of some warp wizardry due to his memorizing of the Malus Codicium if I recall correctly (summoning a daemon and later trapping it). As far as was known, he was no psyker.
Blood for the Blood God? No! Fire for my FireBlade!

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Calmsword
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#45 » Aug 11 2017 09:28

I think this conversation is, unfortunately, going the way of: 'you make the game you want'

I've always been opposed to this because the whole point of liking a certain genre is also enjoying the restrictions of a universe in order to give characters obstacles.

I'll use the example of Hyperspace in Star Wars. In the original movies and lore there were massive limitations on how/where you could go to hyperspace, yet now, the characters in the new movies jump to hyperspace whenever they need to be it within a gravity well or not...

The Tau don't have psykers, they don't have a relationship with the Warp, in Inquisition a Daemon doesn't even really register what a Tau is... But you've got... ugh... things like the Farsight books coming out that hallmark an author who wants there to be chaosy Tau... and now the canonicity of previously establish fluff which got older players into it is largely invalidated.

So. Canon doesn't really make sense any more for Tau. We've been going in this direction for years now and, finally, this new chapter of GW is simply removing the Tau fluff that made me want to get into them in the first place:

1. Tau opposed to using titan level suits.
2. Tau blood is cyan. (it's a silly one, but this was awesome to me as a kid)
3. Tau don't kill other Tau.
4. Tau believe in science and have no idea what the heck the warp is.
5. The Empire's society is dedicated to the overall furtherance of harmony in the Galaxy.

But that's okay. Change is the one constance, right? I just wish they had expert writers to take us in this new direction rather than "cool-factor-maximum-go-now!" attitude. There's too much contradiction to make sense of it as an organized group anymore, frankly.

IMHO
~Good Hunting

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#46 » Aug 12 2017 06:29

I agree with Calmsword. The old fluff wasn't perfect but right now it's a mess. Hence why I really don't enjoy talking about T'au fluff in depth.

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TauMan
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#47 » Aug 12 2017 07:25

Dear Tau'fann, I hate to say it, but I think we've reached the end of this discussion thread.

In Summation:
Shas'O Bentu'nan – Yes, it would be possible for a non-psyker Tau to conjure using a book of rituals. Though why would they?
Khayman – Tau anti-warp technology should be possible. Why not a small battlefield Geller field for example?
Jacket – Could there be a Tau Techno-mage or a Tau Cryptek. Hey why not?
Panzer – Yes, the Tau would study the Warp as science. And with the Nagi, the Nicissar, and now Human psykers; the Tau are certainly no longer naive as concerns the Warp. Even if they don’t “understand” the warp, the Tau have allies that do.
TauMan - Yes, a Shaman (non-psyker) would be possible. An ascended "Bodhisattva" of the Tau'va is also possible. But would either one ever happen?
Calmnsword - Yes, the Tau is kisune'shas snaet'as! And we still have "He-who-must-not-be-named" to blame for most of it.

Well, that's it for me.
TauMan
PS If anyone doesn't like what Phil Kelly has done with Farsight, then don't read Fire and Ice by Peter Fehervari, you'll cry yourself to sleep! :::(
Viro’los gu brath!
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Shas'O Bentu'nan
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#48 » Aug 13 2017 01:24

TauMan wrote:Dear Tau'fann, I hate to say it, but I think we've reached the end of this discussion thread.

In Summation:
Shas'O Bentu'nan – Yes, it would be possible for a non-psyker Tau to conjure using a book of rituals. Though why would they?


I agree. It was a good discussion with many interesting points of view.

I also agree STRONGLY that the tau wouldnt pursue warp sorcery, i just notes it was possible.
Commander wiseblade

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#49 » Aug 13 2017 11:15

TauMan wrote:Panzer – Yes, the Tau would study the Warp as science. And with the Nagi, the Nicissar, and now Human psykers; the Tau are certainly no longer naive as concerns the Warp. Even if they don’t “understand” the warp, the Tau have allies that do.


Never denied that and also wasn't the point of my posts. Try again. ;)

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Shas'O Ora
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#50 » Oct 04 2017 03:40

To be honest, I have not read all posts and was only looking rough over them
but here are a few thoughts:

1) Could a Nagi controle, for example, an human psyker and act as Tau psyker in this way?
They are already used for "supervising" Tau allies :D

2) Tau could explore a new species with huge psychic abilities.
Here I am not thinking about Units for the battlefield but rather on an organisme which lives on his world and stays
there but cooperates with the Tau, so they can - combined with technology - understand warp and perhaps create
warp drives.

What do you think?

Sheeb
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#51 » Oct 04 2017 04:21

I can see T'au getting a psycher through their allies. Like a cool kroot shaper, or better from some alien ally.

Atlas_MH
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#52 » Oct 04 2017 04:22

TauMan - Yes, a Shaman (non-psyker) would be possible. An ascended "Bodhisattva" of the Tau'va is also possible. But would either one ever happen?

I feel like everyone ignored your post and how it directly related to the genre of Wuxian.

Also ethereals use Invocation of the Elements. Its possible to believe that this path is separate from Warp powers, and has been the one that the T'Au have chosen. If they could become a psyker they probably would have after a few thousand years. Obviously they feel the other path is more suitable to them and/or they don't agree with what the warp is/offers.

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Arka0415
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#53 » Oct 04 2017 06:33

Atlas_MH wrote:Also ethereals use Invocation of the Elements. Its possible to believe that this path is separate from Warp powers, and has been the one that the T'Au have chosen.

Are "invocations" actual powers though? What's the in-lore explanation for an Ethereal making Tau around him more durable anyway?

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Panzer
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Re: The Tau Sorcerer

Post#54 » Oct 05 2017 01:30

Afaik the in-lore explanation of the invocations is just the strong presence of Ethereals and the T'au Soldiers belief in them.
Don't quote me on that though.
It's very likely that GW at that time just wanted Ethereals to give something to make them even more mysterious without ever thinking about having to explain what exactly it actually is. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd eventually tell us Ethereals are low-key psycher....or use some kind of mysterious technology only they know about. :P

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