Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

A review of past Cadre formations from tau'cyr before.
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boomwolf
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Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#1 » Jan 30 2013 08:33

Well, it appears I am in a bit of a sticky situation, and I figured this new section will be the best place to help me resolve it.

The situation is as following-my FLGS runs a conquest-based campaign, and one of the other players has challenged me personally, and as such I must either reply or he can take over my territories (it can also happen if I lose to him, but if I win I can take territory from him), and as such I am forced to fight the one army I never quite managed to-Necrons, and to make matters worse, my opponent have much more experience then me.

Now, considering that the necron codex is capable of pretty much anything sans pskyers, I need to make a TAC-type list, and as I know nothing of his playstyle I am having a hard time to focus it somewhere.
now, what I DO know-is that he owns a single scythe (AFASIK magnetized so he can be both types), who he is likely to run as it is brand new built and painted, and he owns most if not all of the infantry types and tanks.

The store has enough terrain to make literally anything possible, from icy spikes, to forests, to an urban game, and even castle siege (yes, we got mason walls and towers.) so I cannot rely on it, though I do have the advantage of choosing the type of terrain (forest, desert, icy, rocky, countryside and urban tables available) and as such I can tilt it a bit to my favor.


On to the current "list" (open for MUCH changes, as it also needs to be filled out)

HQ: Shas'o-Fireknife (122 pt)
Plasma Rifle, Missile pod, Targeting array, Stimulant injector, Hard-wired mutli-tracker, Hard-wired Blacksun filter.

Elite: Crisis Team-Fireknife (124 pt)
x2 Shas'ui: Plasma Rifle, Missile pod, Multi-tracker.

Elite: Crisis Team-Deathrain (114 pt)
Shas'ui TL: Twin-linked Missile Pod, Targeting Array, HWBSF.
Shas'ui: Twin-linked Missile Pod, Targeting Array.

Troop: Fire Warriors (93 pts)
Shas'ui: Pulse Rifle, Hard-wired Blacksun filter.
x7 Shas'la: Pulse Rifle

Troop: Fire Warriors (93 pts)
Shas'ui: Pulse Rifle, Hard-wired Blacksun filter.
x7 Shas'la: Pulse Rifle

Troop: Fire Warriors (93 pts)
Shas'ui: Pulse Rifle, Hard-wired Blacksun filter.
x7 Shas'la: Pulse Rifle

Heavy Support: Hammerhead (175 pts)
Railgun, x2 Burst cannon, Blacksun filter, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Target lock.

Heavy Support: Broadside (93 pts)
Shas'ui TL: Smart Missile System, Targeting array, HWBSF, HWMT, HWDC

Heavy Support: Broadside (93 pts)
Shas'ui TL: Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, HWBSF, HWMT, HWDC

Total: 1000 points.

The list of unused units for changes are: Sniper Drone Team, x1 shield drone, x1 marker drone, x8 gun drone, x4 unbuilt drones (can be made into any type), x12 kroot, devilfish, x3 stealth suits.
(up to 7 pathfinders CAN be acquired with ease, but preferably not, as I am placing a tetra order anyway.)
Personally I prefer to have more guys around then to spec-up the ones I got. I found that overly upgraded suits just attract more shots, leading them to an early grave.



The overall concept of the battle strategy is to hit him hard from afar and shuffle away towards my corner castle if needed (where the broadsides park), as I know necrons are mostly slow (correct me if mistaken)

HQ goes with the fireknife team, staying back but putting some hurt.
Broadsides are my anti-air and anti-tank answers, both pack nice little backup guns if things get too close, but they are pretty straightforward. not sure if its enough though.
Deathrain will assist the broadsides.
Fire warriors shoot at approaching infantry, maybe I should switch to 3 squads of 8 to give more scoring power?
And the hammerhead is a nice all-rounder support and should outright decimate scarab farm attempts or warrior blocks. his ability to move around, shoot multiple units and being hard to take down should allow me to use him as the center of attention.

Naturally everything packs a BSF because he will likely bring along solar pulse or even two. (sans the heatwaves)
Broadsides might be better off with the A.S.S rather then the TA, as I expect an air unit and might not see ground tanks at all, so the loss of BS wont be that horrible and the gain in mobility can be nice. a MT can also work in theory, saving a few points and giving more simple guns on the field.
Last edited by boomwolf on Jan 31 2013 04:28, edited 7 times in total.

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Cas'val Dei'kun
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Posts: 118

Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#2 » Jan 30 2013 03:13

Overall your list seems balanced and capable but I would caution you against using a gunline approach instead of a more mobile strategy. Necrons are deceptivly fast. You might expect a slow advance from accross the board but in reality they have access to a variety of fast units. Wraiths are jump troops, nightscyths are jetbikes, destroyers are jump infantry, scarabs are beasts, and warriors have the option of either a verry strong transport skimmer or taking a cryptek who can deep strike them. All of you can feel free to correct me on any of those details but the main point is that necrons have some of the fastest and most unexpected ways to get in your face quickly.
I often counter this by putting pressure on him instead by deep striking my own stuff all over his lines, in theory this is supposed to distract him from my softer units but in practice it tends to throw both battle lines into total disarray which can give you an advantage if you fancy yourself an oppertunist.
I would try to put together a stealth team with those last few points, outflank them with either six burst cannons or just three guys with a fusion blaster and watch them throw a wrench into his plans. Make sure to place some heavy cityfighting terrain to give them that delicious 2+ cover save.
For the Greater Good, and waffles. mmmhm waffles...

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Cas'val Dei'kun
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#3 » Jan 30 2013 03:22

While on the topic of cityfighting i would highly recomend turning your fireknives into heatwaves. Contrary to popular belife necrons DO melt when enough fire is applied and three twinlinked flamers will make a mess out of any infantry as long as you can get them close enough. Making use of the cover and terrain is essential here.
Since you have control of the terrain make sure to build your list and battlefield with each other in mind, building a heavy cityfighting force is effective when you know you are going to be in a city although the decision is of course up to you in the end. I sorta feel like Im overstepping my bounds here.
For the Greater Good, and waffles. mmmhm waffles...

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Arc'Aroth
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#4 » Jan 30 2013 03:51

While I am not a good list builder, I do have some advice. Depending on how he builds his necrons they either get back up on a 5 or a 4. Either way is bad for you. To get around this try and finish off a unit in one turn of fire. I can not tell you how many times I have, with my IG, decimated a squad of necrons, leaving only one guy up, only to have 4 or 5 stand up again and take out a tank. If there is no squad to come back to, unlike last edition of necrons, the entire squad can not get back up. Doesn't matter if you have to waste a little firepower on overkill, just make sure any squad you put down, stays down.

And while necrons are surprisingly fast, if he brings a teleporting squad they will almost always end up in what I call supa-template formation. Otherwise known as a pile of targets. If he does this the heatwaves will come in handy. You could easily get 8 or 10 hits per template if you get in range, and with a 75% chance to wound... necrons will melt at the right temperature. But like I said, feel free to waste firepower to take down the one or two guys remaining, because if you don't, you'll regret it.

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O'nutakushas
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#5 » Jan 30 2013 04:06

seems you have a fairly balanced list, i havent really played new necrons but did face a few older forces. Id suggest going for the sniper drones as they'll negate most saves and maybe change the railgun hammerhead for an ion cannon as the amount of shots it can then throw out per turn can really knock down smaller necron units.Otherwise i agree with the above flamers are good for getting rid of large units as enough shots will result in a higher deathrate and be useful against any scarab swarms he may have.
the greater good has to apply to all,not just the few.

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TheAmbit
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#6 » Jan 30 2013 04:40

O'nutakushas wrote:seems you have a fairly balanced list, i havent really played new necrons but did face a few older forces. Id suggest going for the sniper drones as they'll negate most saves and maybe change the railgun hammerhead for an ion cannon as the amount of shots it can then throw out per turn can really knock down smaller necron units.Otherwise i agree with the above flamers are good for getting rid of large units as enough shots will result in a higher deathrate and be useful against any scarab swarms he may have.


As you're a new member here I'd like to remind you to read over the membership primers (which are mandatory). This includes grammar and spelling and your post has tons of these errors. Please correct this going forward.

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O'nutakushas
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#7 » Jan 30 2013 05:18

my apologies, grammar isnt my strongest suit.
the greater good has to apply to all,not just the few.

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boomwolf
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#8 » Jan 30 2013 05:36

Haven't though of massing up flamers, and I think it will surely take him by surprise, but I don't know if I have the bulk of suits to make it happen without giving up on mass of plasma I think I need, or dwindle down the deathrain AA/AT support.

Also, as I lack further suits, making flamer suits will mean a serious drop in points, so what can be added?

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Das'Kyman
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#9 » Jan 30 2013 06:18

You could change your Deathrains into ... Firewaves? (not sure on the name for TL flamer with MP) :?

If you drop the twin-linking on your MP's you will hit 2.83 times
Your missile pods, as you have them, will hit 3.33 times
The twin-linking gives you a 17.7% increase in 'to-hit' efficiency.

Your flamers, hitting 4 T4 models each, will wound 4 times
2 TL flamers will wound 6 times
That is a 50% increase in 'to-wound' efficiency. The reason it is so much higher is because you only have 2 flamers, while you have 5 MP's to distribute the load.

Now, just because it has a higher efficiency doesn't mean you should take it. It is more efficient at a different role, and so you have to decide how important each role is to you.
So, if you are deathly afraid of his vehicles, Deathrains may be the way to go, especially since you have the flamers to deal with his swarms. But if you expect him to be deepstriking right in front of you, your missile pods wont do much good since you'll already be using your flamers, why not make the flamers better?

I personally love TL Flamers but they never seem to find their way onto my suits because I'm more afraid of vehicles. Maybe I haven't encountered enough swarms.

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Isaac
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#10 » Jan 30 2013 08:32

I played a 3000 pt game against necrons a while ago and found that a unit of deep striking battlesuits with twinlinked flamers and a burst cannon are excellent at killing large amounts of scarab swarms (automatic hits, 3+ to wound with reroll, no armour saves, and each wound inflicted by template weapons get doubled) all for 117 pts (3 shas'ui=75, 3 tl flamers=18, 3 burst cannons=24). For dealing with necron warriors I had a unit of 3 xv9s with 2 phased ion guns each (3 shas'vre=225 6 phased ion guns=60) although this is very expensive (285 pts) I wiped out a unit of 20 warriors with a cryptek in a single turn with just 3 models :evil:
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boomwolf
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#11 » Jan 31 2013 01:09

It seems everyone votes for heatwaves for the potential scarab issue, and generic anti-infantry role, but it still leaves me questioning:
Then what will handles his scythe? and what of the models I have available will make a good addition after I shrink some suits to heatwaves? (I already got some points to spare anyway.)

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Cas'val Dei'kun
Shas
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#12 » Jan 31 2013 01:18

I stumbled accross a decent, if unorthadox, method when faced with my first nightscyth encounter. Fire warriors. In one turn using 24 of them I managed to down the thing through glancing hits alone. Certainly not the most efficient answer but a great emergency weapon that they will probably not expect. Also once you've dealt with his tanks remember that broadsides are fairly proficient AA units as well. Twinlinking improves their chances to hit and when they finaly DO land a shot, well lets just say your flyer problem should be dealt with.
For the Greater Good, and waffles. mmmhm waffles...

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Isaac
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#13 » Jan 31 2013 02:28

The Barracuda is probably the best anti air unit the Tau have. It is only 130 points in the new rules (imperial armour: Areonautica). It has AV10 all around and 2 hull points (because it is a flyer). It has a ion cannon, a twin linked missile pod and two burstcannons which have the auto-targeting special rule (they ignore cover saves granted by jink and moving flat out). The Barracuda is very good at killing enemy flyers (5 ST7 shots, 6 ST5 shots that ignore cover) It can also carry up to four seeker missiles for 10 points each. The only down side is that it costs 73 pounds, but it is the best anti air unit the Tau have in my opinion.
For The Greater Good :fear:

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Ell'ran
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#14 » Jan 31 2013 03:42

boomwolf wrote:It seems everyone votes for heatwaves for the potential scarab issue, and generic anti-infantry role...

In my experience the Hammerhead's Railgun submunition blast handles scarab swarms quite nicely due to the fact that a single wound will instant kill them.

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boomwolf
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#15 » Jan 31 2013 03:48

A barracuda also completely ignores the fact I posted what my available units are and that it is NOT one of them. (nor do I plan to ever get one. far too squishy for my tastes, and not all that killy.)

Firewarriors could be an interesting though, forgot they actually have a chance there (damn i wish I had the tower by now)

So, if I turn my fireknifes or deathrains into heatwaves, what third hardpoint should they get? missiles for backup AT/AA, BSF for cheapness?

And using the spare points that I already have and generate from the fireknife/deathrain->heatwave change, what should I add? stealths maybe? fish?
Also, what suit should I switch in favor of the heatwave? I assume the deathrain, but not so sure about it.

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Das'Kyman
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#16 » Jan 31 2013 10:09

I would keep the Missile Pods on them. That way they wont be sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the enemy is in range. Plus then you have 2 squads that can hurt his transports so it will be harder for them to hide.

Keep the fireknives, their versatility should help since you aren't exactly sure what he will bring. Also, you'd be wasting your Shas'O BS by giving him a flamer.

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boomwolf
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#17 » Jan 31 2013 11:17

Took the advice so far into consideration I rewrote the list a bit, turning the deathrains into heatwaves, (rewinded the HQ change, recalculation showed I made a mistake.)

Now, this means I got 79 unused points. as I see, the things I can do with them: (just discovered list elements usage :P)
  • Bring in a minimum stealth team, or a sniper team-but it will require to trim other squads to pull off.
  • Upgrade fireknifes into bodyguards with TA-its a bit more damage/point effective, but not much, and will attract more fire without added livability (unless I spend even more for drones)
  • Split Warriors into 3 squads of 8-less threat of losing scoring power. can also give each team a drone or two to buffer body count, but the drones won't help as much as extra warriors could. 11 kroot squad also an option for objective holding options.
  • Upgrade broadsides-give them a team leader with a HWTL so I can split fire.
  • Upgrade to Shas'o

What addition seems the most beneficial though?
Last edited by boomwolf on Jan 31 2013 12:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Cas'val Dei'kun
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Re: Anti-necron Tau, 1000 points.

Post#18 » Jan 31 2013 12:45

I would go with the kroot, while they are pretty squishy they make great outflanking objective grabbers and their firepower is pretty decent too. Not sure if I would use them in melee though. Sure they get plenty of attacks but even simple necron warriors are durable enough to outlast them in melee. Thanks to how cheap they are you can get quite a few of them and if you make good use of cover they should be able to survive a shootout.
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