Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

A review of past Cadre formations from tau'cyr before.
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R'eks
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Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#1 » Feb 04 2013 04:27

Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list. 1500pts Army List.
by R'eks

HQ - Commander R'alai: 190 Points

XV8 Team:

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui; Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui, Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui, Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Troops - Fire Warrior Team: 100 Points.
x10 Fire Warriors.

Troops - Fire Warrior Team: 100 Points.
x10 Fire Warriors.

Dedicated Transport - Devilfish: 85 Points.
Disruption Pods.

Dedicated Transport - Devilfish: 85 Points.
Disruption Pods.

Fast Attack - Tetra: 55 Points.
Targeting Array, Disruption Pods (Come included).

Fast Attack - Tetra: 55 Points.
Targeting Array, Disruption Pods (Come included).

Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship: 135 Points.
Plasma Cannon, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Blacksun Filters, Multitracker.

Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship: 135 Points.
Plasma Cannon, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Blacksun Filters, Multitracker.

Heavy Support - XV-88 Broadside Team: 278 Points.
Targeting Arrays. Team Leader, Drone Controller x2 Shield Drones, Bonding Knife, Blacksun Filter

Total: 1,413pts.


Notes: -

Where I play, the unfortunate meta game is Spacemarines. This list it build with them in mind. It has been play tested against other Armies, and it does surprisingly well against them too. It has become my mainstay army, my 'all comers' list per say.

I was looking to get any critisim the expert community might be able to provide. I take R'alai for several reasons, I love the model, I love the fluff, and he has not failed me... Yet. I am fully aware that for his cost I could bring another team of Crisis suits, which is what is making me slowly wonder if he's really worth the points.

This list focuses mainly on basically winning the game with the first round of shooting. I aim to take out key assets in the opponents army as quickly as possible to not only eliminate them at threats, but as a massive demoralising blow to my opponent.

For some context, this list was built after the Tau were repeatedly defeated and slated by everyone. I chose to take up the mantle and built a competitive list to prove those people wrong, hence it's focus on causing an overwhelming defeat in the early stages of the game.

I should also note the three XV8s are in the same team, team 'Burning Blade'.
Last edited by R'eks on Feb 06 2013 05:30, edited 4 times in total.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#2 » Feb 04 2013 07:46

Well, my notes of this list:

  • I was never a fan of the burning eye suits (TLPR), though I will admit they are rather good anti-meq. I would have gone for bladestomres though (PR/BC)
    Also, you should downgrade the vre, the blacksun adds little to a unit of such ranges, and the drone is not enough to justify the price spike.
  • The fish gains pretty much nothing from the blasksun filter, waste of points. (the SMS ignores night anyway, and the burst too short to matter much)
  • bonding knifes are not worth it, the only thing it means that if you have 1-2 remaining people in the team, and one of them is the TL himself, you still get a chance to regroup, way too situational, way too unpromising, and even when it works the gain is minimal.
  • I highly recommend a multi-tracker for the hammers, so you can move 12 and still fire properly.(plus, a blacksun costs 5 for a tank, not 3.)

Seems pretty decent otherwise.

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R'eks
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#3 » Feb 05 2013 06:36

Thank you so much boomwolf, those all make sense. I have amended my list accordingly. My problem when list-building is I tend to over upgrade everything :P


1. I had no idea Smart Missile Systems ignored Night Fighting! Makes perfect sense to remove the Blacksun Filters.

2. My love for Burning Eyes is that, with the addition of Overwatch, their Twinlinked Plasma always has treated me well, I get 2-3 hits most times and I have cancelled many charges with it, though in the previous edition I also favoured Bladestorms.

3. I have also removed Bonding Knives.

4. List is still bang on 1,500 points, which I am pleased with. Still open to suggestions though!

EDIT: I was also thinking, if I dropped the SMS on the Warfish and R'alai, I could fit in a Helios 6 pattern Shas'El with a two Bodyguard retinue. Worth it?

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Das'Kyman
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#4 » Feb 05 2013 11:17

I would say that if you like Ralai and he's always worked well for you then you should stick with him. Just because some other unit might kill more points on paper doesnt mean that they will for you. Some people can't get enough suits, and some people can't get their suits shiny enough.

A helios team (on paper) will kill more points because it is kitted out to target expensive units.
However, if this list is already performing well against MEQ then adding a full Helios squad could be overkill (unless those pesky TEQ are giving you grief)

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boomwolf
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#5 » Feb 05 2013 01:00

Ralai is a god of ranged warfare, helios team is a nice anti-Teq squad. but nothing more. (and you got that in numbers.)

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R'eks
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#6 » Feb 05 2013 05:09

Yeah, I think I will stick with R'alai. He feels more balanced, and that Rending sub-munition can be a game changer.

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Carrelio
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#7 » Feb 05 2013 07:21

I do not recommend the photon grenades on your fire warriors. When 6th edition first came out a lot of players thought they were a really big boon for fire warriors, but I actually thought quite the opposite, and I think more people recently have joined that thinking as well. Best case scenario they waste points, worst case scenario, you will actually end up getting your squad killed because of them. Why?

Best case scenario, the enemy is just never in that optimal range to use the grenades, or else never bothers to shoot you, in which case the points are entirely wasted anyways. This is highly likely since fire warrior optimal range is now 15", which means that even with a 6" move towards you, the enemy is still outside of the effective range at which the grenades function.
Worst case scenario, the cover save the grenades grant means you don't lose any models to shooting before getting charged, so there is no chance that you'll break and run to a safe distance, or even that you'll make it a little harder to roll that charge because your front rank has died. So, the charge is now easier to get off and because there are more bodies to fight back with there is an increased chance of tying combat into your turn so that you can't shoot at the attackers either.

Even at 1 point each, this can only be a bad thing for us. Save your points for something that will actually help rather than shoot you in the foot.

Note: there is the chance that for some strange reason, someone is standing within the grenade range with no intent of charging you after he fires... in theory this is the optimal scenario... but if I'm to be absolutely honest with you, I've never seen it happen.

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R'eks
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#8 » Feb 06 2013 05:21

Hmm. Interesting points Carrelio, I appreciate your input. Is there anything you'd recommend in particular that I take for the extra 20 points that will be freed up?

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boomwolf
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#9 » Feb 06 2013 06:04

Totally forgot about these. I agree with Carrelio-photons are BAD. even for free they would have been questionable.

as for spending the points, just give an extra warrior to each team.

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R'eks
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#10 » Feb 06 2013 06:13

Should I bother giving them a Team Leader for the BSF at all?

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boomwolf
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#11 » Feb 06 2013 10:55

Well, you bring the leader for the LD bonus, and if you already have one the 3 points for the BSF is not much, but considering you are a mech list, and likely to spend turn 1 inside a devilfish, it will only be of any use against necrons.

So it's debatable, but if you got nothing else to do with the last few points, its nice to have.

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R'eks
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#12 » Feb 06 2013 11:35

I think I will leave them for now, my Fire Warriors falling back it not a nice thought, haha.

On a side note, played this list today, R'alai's Rending sub-munition rolled 8 6s when firing at a squad of 10 marines. Lucky, but priceless.

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spears
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#13 » Feb 06 2013 03:22

Glad to hear R'alai pulled his weight he needs to for his points. A couple of suggestions on the list if i may, firstly I believe the Firewarrior points are slightly out and should be 123 with their current loadout.
My main suggestion though would be to cut back on upgrades. Currently your troop choices cost you 486 points, if you strip everything except the disruption pods you will be paying 370 points, i think those 116 points could be better spent elsewhere. With the points i would take one of two routes depending on play style:

A. More troops. Remove a Ta from a suit, you can now afford to run three mounted Firewarrior squads in a 9 9 6 configuration.

B. Reinforce R'alai. Spend the points on a 'El with a bsf, tl pr and a shield drone. Whilst a little extra firepower is nice the main advantage of this setup is making R'alai toughness 4 instead of the dangerous 3 he is on his own.

I realise its something of a drastic departure from the current list but hope it may be food for thought.

im2randomghgh
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#14 » Feb 06 2013 05:11

HQ - Commander R'alai: 190 Points

Always a solid choice

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui; Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui, Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Elite - XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: 65 Points.
Shas'ui, Twinlinked Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array.

Is this three units or one? It isn't very clear. Regardless, this configuration is generally not ideal, even against marines. A low shot count and it's price have always been it's major turn offs for me. Helios, Fireknife and Blinding Spear may be better suited to your needs.

Troops - Fire Warrior Team: 121 Points.
x10 Fire Warriors; Photon Grenades. Team Leader; Blacksun Filter.

I am questioning the inclusion of the three upgrades. Photon Grenades are almost a liability, when your firewarriors get assaulted, it is generally desirable for them to die (for the greater good) in the first round if combat, allowing you to shoot the attackers. The blacksun filters makes little difference when your target has 3+ armour. The team leader upgrade becomes rather pointless with no additional wargear. Maybe use a shas'ui if you want a character? Also, wouldn't this unit cost 118?

Troops - Fire Warrior Team: 121 Points.
x10 Fire Warriors; Photon Grenades. Team Leader; Blacksun Filter.

see above

Dedicated Transport - Devilfish: 120 Points.
Disruption Pods, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker.

Never been a fan of the warfish. It averages ~2 more hits a turn than a dumbfish (2 S5 hits accomplishes little) and loses the ability to drop drones to screen/support/contest, and this 'upgrade' to an already expensive transport costs more than a stealthsuit with a fusion blaster! The upgrade to both of them costs like a broadside!

Dedicated Transport - Devilfish: 120 Points.
Disruption Pods, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker.

Fast Attack - Tetra: 55 Points.
Targeting Array

No disruption pod? These guys are squishy; they need them! Otherwise, an awesome choice.

Fast Attack - Tetra: 55 Points.
Targeting Array

Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship: 130 Points.
Plasma Cannon, Target Lock, Disruption Pods, Blacksun Filters, Multitracker.

Are you forgetting the mandatory secondary weapon? Burst cannons add 10 points to each of these, the other options add twenty! The target lock is wholly unnecessary, I must add. Being able to fire a pair of weakened heavy bolters at a second target will rarely do anything. Especially since a target being within 18" of the tank is probably one you should be firing the plasma cannon at, since they'll be inside your 12" safety bubble the next turn.

Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship: 130 Points.
Plasma Cannon, Target Lock, Disruption Pods, Blacksun Filters, Multitracker.

Heavy Support - XV-88 Broadside Team: 263 Points.
Targeting Arrays. Team Leader, Drone Controller x1 Shield Drones, Bonding Knife, Blacksun Filter

I really would recommend taking another shield drone. They just do so much for the entire unit, and it would suck to see the drone get killed by bolters just before a lascannon and a plasma gun blaster your XV88s to bits. Redundancy, as always, is key. Maybe try it with some of the extra points from the devilfish downgrade?

Overall, my advice would be to make the crisis suit team into fireknives/helios/blinding spear, and make the devilfish dumbfish, along with dumbing down the fire warrior squads inside. This should net you 121-133 points (depending on the crisis suit loadout), with which to add burst cannons to the HH to make them legal, disruption pods to the tetras to make them tough and an extra shield drone to the broadsides. This leaves you with 76-88 points, meaning that you could get a fireknife shas'el to fit in, as well, to attach himself to your blinding spears. Or firestorm/storm forge shas'el to go with the fireknife/helios unit since you'd have less points to play around with. Or anything you want really, after all, it IS your list :)
6th edition
W-37
D-5
L-11

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R'eks
Shas
Posts: 26

Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#15 » Feb 06 2013 05:28

Awesome suggestions! Thank you. I have amended everything accordingly. I will keep the Burning Blades just because they have treated me well in the past. I now have 87 points left to play with though. Should I just round up the Fire Warrior Squads to 12 and give them a leader for the Leadership upgrade? Perhaps upgrade one of the Burning Blade Shas'ui to Shas'vre to give the team a few shield drones or iridium armour?

im2randomghgh
Shas
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Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#16 » Feb 06 2013 06:01

R'eks wrote:Awesome suggestions! Thank you. I have amended everything accordingly. I will keep the Burning Blades just because they have treated me well in the past. I now have 87 points left to play with though. Should I just round up the Fire Warrior Squads to 12 and give them a leader for the Leadership upgrade? Perhaps upgrade one of the Burning Blade Shas'ui to Shas'vre to give the team a few shield drones or iridium armour?


87 points happens to be the exact cost of a shas'el w/ FB, PR, MT...
6th edition
W-37
D-5
L-11

Aegwymourn
Shas
Posts: 36

Re: Mont'ka 'Alpha Strike' list, 1,500 Points

Post#17 » Feb 06 2013 10:41

R'eks wrote:Awesome suggestions! Thank you. I have amended everything accordingly. I will keep the Burning Blades just because they have treated me well in the past. I now have 87 points left to play with though. Should I just round up the Fire Warrior Squads to 12 and give them a leader for the Leadership upgrade? Perhaps upgrade one of the Burning Blade Shas'ui to Shas'vre to give the team a few shield drones or iridium armour?


I find having to many characters to be a dangerous idea since one of the warlord traits is gaining an VP each time you kill a character in a challenge. I haven't seen it come up yet but it very well might at some point.

I would recommend against Iridium armour for standard Crisis Teams. They really do need the full jump movement to keep in optimal (and safe) position. If you are interested in getting the most out of Iridium armour nothing beats a Shield'O (Shas'O with Iridium armour, shield drones x2, stimulant injector, shield generator if you want). I regularly use one and have it soak attacks against Fire Warrior and Kroot Squads.

I also find that depending if you have a static unit it doesn't hurt to take an ethereal to help with moral tests (and he makes a unit fearless, can help prevent broadsides from running away after losing a shield drone). I have rubbish luck with moral tests though so mileage may vary.

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