1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

A review of past Cadre formations from tau'cyr before.
Rama Tsua'm Fio
Shas
Posts: 5

1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

Post#1 » Feb 07 2013 12:22

Hello Comrades,
I am Tsua'm Fio, and this is my Cadre! I submit it humbly for your review, that more experienced minds might provide insight.

I have built my cadre around a minimal central base of firepower, with reserves capable of responding to enemy movements as they occur. I believe it best to keep from committing too much too early, and with that in mind I chose units capable of outflanking, infiltrating, or deepstriking. These tactics allow me a more flexible force, with no individual component so important as to destabilize my army should it be lost. I most often encounter agents of the Empire of Man on my travels. These sadly shortsighted Marines rarely stop to hear our offers of trade and free association, and too often I find myself battling with them instead of bartering.


I always attempt to take the field just after my foe, this allows me the best response to their deployment. My base of firepower consists of the ML Firewarrior Squad and Sniper Drone Teams. These deploy to support one another, and ideally take advantage of cover to increase their longevity. They will attempt to array in opposition to the heaviest enemy units. This creates a perceived threat early on, and draws the enemy in. The markerlights can be used to increase the likelihood of pinning, or to buff shooting. Supporting them will be the HQ, and bodyguard. They provide a discouragement to light armor, and can act to draw away heavier fire if need be. My Monat Crisis Suit is a reckless warrior. Sometimes his boldness brings great success, and larger squads have much to fear from his attack. Other times he rarely has time to bring weapons to bear before withering fire cuts him down. My Monat Crisis Suit is a reckless warrior. Sometimes his boldness brings great success, and larger squads have much to fear from his attack. Other times he rarely has time to bring weapons to bear before withering fire cuts him down. Depending on what my opponent has arrayed, I utilize my Kroot or Stealth Suits to infiltrate and create pressure or draw attention away from other units. If they do not infiltrate, they will outflank beside or behind enemy forces and engage. This again is about perceived threat. The Kroot are cheap and largely disposable, but one charge into a unit can pay for them many times over. The Stealth Suits are considered a threat more than they really are, but I work that to my advantage, baiting lots of shooting and assaults away from less stalwart or more useful forces. The Piranhas often deploy from the onset of the game, advancing along the flanks to support infiltrated elements or create a distraction in order to open up room to deepstrike. If I don't deploy them at outset, i try to bring them in early to catch troops or light armor. The Hammerhead follows a similar deployment pattern, taking point from the start and providing mobile cover for other units like my HQ or the Piranhas. If I bring it in later, I try for turn 3-4, when my opponent has hopefully already committed his forces. This heavy hitter coming in draws a disproportionate amount of attention. I work that by both posturing it aggressively, and jockeying my other units away from the tank, forcing a division of focus. The last unit to take the field is my 12-strong Firewarrior Team. They are for taking objectives in late game action. They come mounted in a Devilfish, and they carry grenades for vehicles and troops. The Devilfish itself can get up close and personal to deter assaults, or provide a screen against shooting. Its drones provide potential pinning fire, an extra potential deterrent against assaults.



HQ: 1 Shas'o Crisis Suit Commander - 120 pts.
- Missile Pod
- Plasma Rifle
- Hardwired Multi-tracker
- Hardwired Bonding Knife
- Hardwired Blacksun Filter

HQ: 2 Shas'Vre XV-8 Crisis Suit Bodyguard Squad - 116 pts.
- Twin-linked Missile Pod
- Target Lock

Elite: 1 Shas'Vre XV-8 Crisis Suit - 71 pts.
- Cyclic Ion Blaster
- Twin-linked Flamer
- Hardwired Multi-tracker
- Stim. Injector

Elite: 5 XV-25 Stealth Suit Team - 217 pts.
- Shas'vre Team Leader
- Targeting Arrays
- Bonding Knife
- Fusion Blaster

Troop: 14 Kroot Carnivores - 98 pts.

Troop: 14 Kroot Carnivores - 98 pts.

Troop: 6 Firewarriors - 154 pts.
- Shas'ui Team Leader
- Photon Grenades
- Markerlight Rifle
- Hardwired Blacksun Filter
- Bonding Knife
- Hardwired Drone Controller
- 2 Marker Drones

Troop: 12 Firewarriors - 186 pts.
- Shas'ui Team Leader
- Photon Grenades
- EMP Grenades
- Blacksun Filter
- Bonding Knife

Devilfish Troop Transport - 105 pts.
- Sensor Spines
- Flechette Discharger
- Disruption Pod

Fast Attack: 3 Piranha Light Skimmer Teams - 240 pts.
- Sensor Spines
- Targeting Arrays
- Disruption Pods

Heavy Support: 2 Sniper Drone Teams - 160 pts.

Heavy Support: 1 Hammerhead Tank - 185 pts.
- Railgun
- Smart Missile System
- Disruption Pod
- Sensor Spines
- Blacksun Filter
- Target Lock

Total: 1750 pts.

This utilizes the full range I possess, though I hope to recruit a third Sniper Drone Team soon. I think it would benefit my fire base, and it doesn't occupy any new FOC slots. My desire would be to field an army in the 1500 to 1750 pt. range. If paring it down would increase its effectiveness, I would be open to the idea. I'm hoping that, selecting from the range of units I possess, these choices allow me the most possible array of reactions to enemy attack. A fluid and shifting foe who at any point might suddenly surge from a new direction. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, and I hope this formatting is agreeable!

STS17
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 717

Re: 1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

Post#2 » Feb 07 2013 01:39

Greetings Tsua'm Fio! Allow me to begin by saying you have done a wonderful job of outlining what you are trying to do with your units in your opening paragraphs. Your comments have certainly informed how I will analyze your list as I offer feedback!

Let us begin, shall we? ;)

Unnecessary Upgrades: You have a good deal of "fat" in your list. Many of these upgrades are not serving any significant purpose in your list and appear to me to be mostly a points-sink. By trimming some of this down, you should be able to free up a good amount of points, and this will serve as an excellent way to add additional units to your army as your collection grows. Let's examine a few of these:

Bonding Knives: You have added Bonding Knives to pretty much every single team that can use them. However, the changes to 6th edition have rendered this piece of wargear almost entirely useless - in fact, some of the units you have it on can never even activate them. In the very rare case that your bonding knife becomes active, and the unit has not been completely destroyed, you will have a mere one or two models still alive, which is far below an effective fighting force. By removing these, you will have freed up enough points to purchase more models than you will likely save by using the Bonding Knives in the first place.

Blacksun Filters on Fire Warriors: These are largely a waste of points. On your smaller Fire Warrior squad, the BSF does not effect their Markerlights at all, and I don't imagine they will be using their other weapons very often at all, and certainly not on the turns where Night Fighting is in effect. On your twelve-man squad, I am led to understand that they come in from reserves, which means they are not even going to be on the board for 50% of all night fighting scenarios. In addition, it is a rare case where the cover granted from Night Fighting will be relevant against S5AP5 fire, especially when fighting against marines. Your battlesuits (crisis and broadside) and Hammerheads should certainly keep their Blacksun Filters (provided they are always starting the game on the tabletop and not in reserve).

Sensor Spines: How frequently do you find your vehicles taking dangerous terrain tests? There are rather few effects in the game which can cause a skimmer to take a dangerous terrain test, and many of them can be avoided by good movement and positioning. Unless you are playing against a lot of the weapons which can force DT tests, or playing on ultra-terrain-dense battlefields, you should be able to get away without these.

Grenades: You have spent a good deal of points on defensive and EMP grenades. Odds are, if a squad of Fire Warriors is unfortunate enough to be charged by an opponent, they aren't going to make it out of that combat alive, with defensive grenades or no, and especially not if the squad wasn't at full strength to begin with. Your Fire Warriors also should not be getting within assault range of enemy vehicles, especially if they have to disembark and wait a full turn before they can charge (after coming out of reserves, no less). If you are at a point where you need those Fire Warriors to blow something up, you are probably losing that game already.




As written, your Shas'O only has two hardpoints filled in, and is not technically a legal selection. Did you intend to have a Twin-Linked weapon on him? Or perhaps the Multi-tracker was not intended to be hard-wired? I can also understand the selection of Target Locks on the bodyguards, as they do help you to minimize overkill by spreading your shots around. However, Missile Pods are not exactly known for their overkill (it often takes shots from multiple Missile Pods to drop even a Rhino). This is especially true in 6th edition, where it is ever so slightly harder to "one shot kill" vehicles with out AP1 weapons and so you often rely on Hull Point kills to finish off vehicles. For this reason, you might be better suited to having Targeting Arrays instead of Target Locks on your body guards for the improved accuracy. This is entirely a personal choice.

Lastly, your 6-man Fire Warrior squad seems to be trying really hard to be Pathfinders. Why not just make them so? You will get more markerlights to use and, by moving the dedicated transport from the 12-man squad to these Pathfinders, can utilize the Marker Beacon to assist your Deep Striking units. I understand that this means your 12-man squad cannot use the tank when in reserves, so it will require a minor change to your general strategy (by starting the tank on the board) so this is largely a personal choice. However, I do believe that it will help the synergy of your list overall if you do this.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.

im2randomghgh
Shas
Posts: 452
Contact:

Re: 1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

Post#3 » Feb 08 2013 08:15

An interesting list concept, I must say. Haven't tried anything like this before, but I can kind of see the logic.

There are a few details I would like to call attention to.

-Sensor spines: Largely unnecessary, tau vehicles really don't need to land in terrain all that often due to having cover saves built in, and don't need to worry about any terrain they pass over, making these somewhat unnecessary unless you have a specific tactic you are trying. I would recommend removing them to shave points.

-Flechette discharger: Another largely unnecessary upgrade, considering most of the things that assault tanks are terminators/ASM w/melta bombs etc., which are very tough and not the greatest targets for assault. If you're feeling like a particularly cruel human being, however, you could put one on each of your piranhas, and have them go off three times whenever they're assaulted.

-Piranhas: I like piranhas, I really do. I think we get some nifty abilities on them that space marine land speeders can only dream of (multi-melta aside), but I think running burst cannons on them is kind of pointless. You are generating ~9 (including the drones) S5 hits a turn for 240 points. I would recommend giving them fusion blasters, so that they can destroy transports and tanks, while still being able to fry some infantry.

-Hammerhead: This hammerhead has a whole lot of upgrades, making it rather expensive (not far from a leman russ executioner). I would recommend you drop the sensor spines and the target lock, and throw in a multi-tracker. A less expensive secondary weapon system may come in handy as well. This would reduce it's cost to 170, while making it fire like a fast vehicle, score more hits and remain just as tough.

-Firewarriors: Here, my recommendations would be to shave all the grenades (photon grenades are a liability, emp grenades are something you are simply not very likely to get to use, ever, and cost an arm and a leg. Additionally, the marker drones are exorbitantly expensive; they cost, individually, as much as a sternguard with a combi-weapon! Blacksun filter isn't something you need either, as firewarrior weapons already cannot penetrate 3+ armour (which happens to be their primary target) so the cover save will only rarely be an issue.

-Stealthsuits: They are ~fine how they are (though targeting arrays make them cost like TH/SS terminators), the one suggestion I have being to either take two fusion blasters, or none, as a single melta shot is terribly unreliable, and he could easily be killed, leaving the unit without the anti-tank firepower you intended to put in. This requires a sixth suit, which you can either get from the points shaved thus far, or you can get by dropping targeting arrays.

-Suicide shas'vre: I would recommend going very cheap on a suicide suit, since he will be fragile even with FNP: TL flamers, blacksun filter (since it's cheap). It'll only run you 34 points, less than half the other, and will have roughly the same impact and survivability.
6th edition
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D-5
L-11

Rama Tsua'm Fio
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: 1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

Post#4 » Feb 09 2013 01:13

Hello all,
Thank you for your feedback so far! I would like to gain greater understanding of a few points mentioned, and so I'd like to respond to the critiques I have so far received. First, I'm honored to have STS17 provide a response. I've been an observer for some time, and have often found their input valuable. Thanks also to im2randomghgh for their feedback. I will endeavor to apply all of your feedback appropriately, and may resubmit my list after alteration.

For STS17: Your feedback is greatly appreciated. I must look at my equipment selections more closely. The vehicles inclusion of sensor spines is because I use them to allow unconventional warfare tactics like driving over/through buildings or cover. A two-floor ruin becomes a Hammerhead perch, a forest becomes extra cover for my Piranha squad, etc. Your observation about the grenades has shown me I was optimistic in my thinking on their usage during gameplay. I have some questions for the sake of clarity.

-What units would you recommend keep their bonding knife?

-Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding RAW would indicate that drones can benefit from a BSF on their controller. Is this not the case?


For im2randomghgh: Thank you for your response, I appreciate all the eyes I can get on this. As I said to STS17, there is a reasoning to my usage of sensor spines. Since you both bring it up as potentially wasted spending, I will examine the utility of this approach as I play to see if it merits keeping or dropping. I also appreciate your feedback regarding the Piranha squad and Hammerhead. Not playing any other armies, I sometimes don't realize what a comparable investment of points would get me. This is an effective method for examining the efficacy of points invested in a unit.




You've both given really good reasons to drop the grenades, so that is happening as we speak. Both of you have stressed the ability of my army to play a more effectively as a more slender arrangement. I'll take your feedback into consideration, and given time to make and test the changes, I'll post an updated version down the road for you to evaluate. Thank you both for your feedback!

STS17
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 717

Re: 1750 pts. Kauyon of Rama Tsua'm Fio

Post#5 » Feb 09 2013 02:50

Rama Tsua'm Fio wrote:First, I'm honored to have STS17 provide a response. I've been an observer for some time, and have often found their input valuable.


I am truly flattered. :D

Your reasoning for Sensor Spines is perfectly fine and it's not really "wrong" to keep using them. It is nice to be able to land safely on the top of a building / terrain feature and shoot at the whole board or avoid an opponent's cover save through superior positioning while still remaining protected with your own cover save.

I would honestly recommend you not have bonding knives on any of your units. The thing is, the unit has to be below 25% of their starting model count (so we're talking about 3 or less Fire Warriors out of a 12 man squad) and one of those models must be the model your purchased the bonding knife on, so it's not like the situation where they can even be used comes up that often - to add to this, they have to fail one leadership test at their normal ld value already. It has been my experience that my teams either run off the board when they first fall back or are simply killed before they have a chance to regroup anyways (or the team leader was dead already).

Lastly, you are technically correct. Your drones would benefit from the Night Vision special rule granted by the Blacksun Filter of their controller (or indeed, one from any model in the same unit). However, Markerlights have the same maximum range as that allowed by the Night Fighting rules in the first place (i.e. they can't shoot farther than 36" in the first place) and your opponent cannot take cover saves from them either as they do not cause wounds. This means that Night Fighting has, quite literally, no impact on a Markerlight's shooting and so there is no need to spend points on the BSF for that purpose.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.

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