Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

A review of past Cadre formations from tau'cyr before.
Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#1 » Feb 23 2013 09:42

HQ
Commander Farsight
plasma rifle, shield generator, hard wired target lock, bonding knife and Dawn blade.
Orc Fighter, Blood Brothers and Break away faction

Body Guard
3 Body guards, 3 plasma rifles, 3 missile pods, 3 target arrays, 3 hard wire multi-trackers, 3 Hard wired Drone Controllers, 5 shield drones, 3 bonding knifes, 1 gun drone and 1 hard wired black sun filter.

Commander Farsight and his body guard are generally used to bait enemy forces towards your killing field for the first two or three turns of the game. By having Commander Farsight jumping in front of the aegis line and back behind it you give him a strong buffer against in coming fire. Once enemy forces are thinned down enough you can press your assault by launching forward to force troops off objectives or to engage other choice targets. Although with the array of firepower you have in this suit unit your able to respond to a wide verity of targets giving a very strong chance to handle nearly anything coming your way.

Troops
Fire Warrior Team 1
11 tau, 12 pulse rifles, shas'vre, hard wired black sun filter, hard wired multi-tracker, marker light, bonding knife and emp grenade.

Fire Warrior Team 2
11 tau, 12 pulse rifles, shas'vre, hard wired black sun filter, hard wired multi-tracker, marker light, bonding knife and emp grenade.

Fire Warrior Team 3
11 tau, 12 pulse rifles, shas'vre, hard wired black sun filter, hard wired multi-tracker, marker light, bonding knife and emp grenade.

The firewarrior teams are normally behind the aegis defense line getting the cover save and the special go to ground cover save when focused upon. These teams provide tactical covering fire for your commander whom is luring the prey into your trap. Massed volleys of pulse fire will wither down any opponent in short order. The shav'ui provides four critical roles in the unit.

Marker Light Assistance
Random chance of a marker light hit to affect units shooting or fire off a seeker missile.

Hard Wired Black Sun filter
Ignore the effects of night fighting, which is very clutch in missions where the enemy can not even shoot you!

Emp grenade
The off chance to take out a walker or a tank.

Leadership boost.


Elites
Crisis team 1
3 suits, 3 twin linked missile pods, 2 flamers and black sun filter.

Crisis team 1
3 suits, 3 twin linked missile pods, 2 flamers and black sun filter.

Stealth Team
6 Stealth suits, 2 fusion blasters

The crisis teams purpose are best used to harass enemy light tanks and even up to power armored infantry. You would want to use these as side flanking units dipping into out of or behind cover. They do provide a highly mobile platform to shoot down pesky flyers being able to re-roll misses your chance of taking down a flyer is pretty good.

The stealth teams job is to harass enemy infantry, go after artillery and be a target to be shot at ranged. Do all you can to avoid being dragged into close combat and keep on the move using any terrain or cover between you and the enemy firing at you. Having the ability a 2+ cover save is very handy and the unit is not gonna die to easily to incoming fire no matter how massed it is. I seen this unit go to ground for four full game turns forcing a very shooty unit to waist its time on that one unit when it could of killed many others. Although to be honest four burst cannons and two fusion blasters is kinda intimidating.


Fast Attack
Piranha Light Skimmer
skimmer, fusion blaster, disruption pod, target array and two seeker missiles.

The ultimate goal of this unit is to turbo boost behind enemy lines staying 12 inches away from enemy fire even after they moved towards it to get your disruption pod effect. Your Piranha on a flat move gains a +2 cover save. While its even under the affects of the flat out move the seeker missiles can still be fired and normally by a marker light. The distance you moved during your movement phase and shooting phase will most likely allow you to hit the side or even rear armor on turn 1! This also adds another bullet magnet for the first turn or more to your army listing giving you an edge while making your opponent waist their anti-tank weapons on a very hard to hit target.

Heavy Support
Broadside Team 1
3 Broadsides, 1 target lock, 2 multi-trackers, team leader, hard wired black sun filter, hard wired drone controller and 2 shield drones.

The broadside team goal is anti-tank and Thunderwolf Calvary pepper spray. ;)

Fortifications
Aegis Defense line and Quad gun.

The aegis plays a critical role for the firewarriors by providing them a much needed save against all types of shots that do not ignore cover saves and the ability to get terminator like saves by going to ground. In addition it allows Commander Farsight a staging area to set up his killing field by using himself as bait behind a wall in which he can sustain far greater amount of punishment. In addition one of the Shas'ui or squad member can man the quad gun allowing for greater range at hitting land targets and or harassing enemy flyers that arrived though reserves.

(Changes above should now properly reflect 1849pt army) 3/4/2013
Last edited by Silvtalon on Mar 04 2013 09:17, edited 4 times in total.

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Carrelio
Shas
Posts: 330

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#2 » Feb 23 2013 10:13

It's a start

First things first, your stealth team is illegal at the moment. you only get 1 fusion blaster for every 3 models, so you need a team of 6 to get a seconds one. You may also want to consider dropping the fusion blaster entirely as they really muddle the purpose of the unit.

The piranha took a big hit in 6th edition. The issue is that it has an effective range of 12" and thus must really work the front lines and get right in and close up. Unfortunately, this happens to be the same range from which close combat can be comfortably performed. In 5th it was fine because you could just say "good luck hitting on 6s" but now they are hitting on 3s... It just means trouble. Add to that that the seeker missiles really are not all that useful at anything in particular (maybe sniping the occasional really random lonely marine, or taking out a transport... but we have deathrains for that!).

How do you plan to get your fire warriors to any objectives? Without a devilfish you will need to hug cover for your life (really, their lives depend on it). On a board without much terrain you just won't have a way of getting to the distant objectives in one piece.
Those fire warriors are also playing a very dangerous game with their shas'uis wargear; a markerlight is 10 points, and for a stationary team on foot I can see the appeal. But if my team was tank shocked I would not be risking my super high point squad leader to try to stop a tank on a 6 (glances on a 4-5 won't work because the vehicle will lose a hull point and just keep on trucking), if you're not charging a vehicle (because why do that when you could shoot it), and you don't want to have your shas'ui smooshed by a tank, the emp is a waste of points. If you are looking for even more questionable points you should also consider dropping the black sun filter. I have it on mine too... but it really depends on your meta. Against Orks, Nids, Dark Eldar (sometimes), and Guard its really helpful but pretty much anything else its a waste (if you play a lot against marines, just don't bother with it). Another thing to consider is adding a gun drone, it's really sneaky. If you get into combat and (when you) lose, you get to run away on I4 instead of I2, effectively doubling your chance of survival.

Why multitrackers on the broadsides? What situation warrants 1 S10 AP1 shot and 4 S5 AP5 shots at the same time? The answer is not tanks, which should really be this unit's primary objective. Perhaps try a couple target locks instead? Splitting fire is really nice to have.

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#3 » Feb 23 2013 11:10

Carrelio wrote:It's a start

First things first, your stealth team is illegal at the moment. you only get 1 fusion blaster for every 3 models, so you need a team of 6 to get a seconds one. You may also want to consider dropping the fusion blaster entirely as they really muddle the purpose of the unit.

The piranha took a big hit in 6th edition. The issue is that it has an effective range of 12" and thus must really work the front lines and get right in and close up. Unfortunately, this happens to be the same range from which close combat can be comfortably performed. In 5th it was fine because you could just say "good luck hitting on 6s" but now they are hitting on 3s... It just means trouble. Add to that that the seeker missiles really are not all that useful at anything in particular (maybe sniping the occasional really random lonely marine, or taking out a transport... but we have deathrains for that!).

How do you plan to get your fire warriors to any objectives? Without a devilfish you will need to hug cover for your life (really, their lives depend on it). On a board without much terrain you just won't have a way of getting to the distant objectives in one piece.
Those fire warriors are also playing a very dangerous game with their shas'uis wargear; a markerlight is 10 points, and for a stationary team on foot I can see the appeal. But if my team was tank shocked I would not be risking my super high point squad leader to try to stop a tank on a 6 (glances on a 4-5 won't work because the vehicle will lose a hull point and just keep on trucking), if you're not charging a vehicle (because why do that when you could shoot it), and you don't want to have your shas'ui smooshed by a tank, the emp is a waste of points. If you are looking for even more questionable points you should also consider dropping the black sun filter. I have it on mine too... but it really depends on your meta. Against Orks, Nids, Dark Eldar (sometimes), and Guard its really helpful but pretty much anything else its a waste (if you play a lot against marines, just don't bother with it). Another thing to consider is adding a gun drone, it's really sneaky. If you get into combat and (when you) lose, you get to run away on I4 instead of I2, effectively doubling your chance of survival.

Why multitrackers on the broadsides? What situation warrants 1 S10 AP1 shot and 4 S5 AP5 shots at the same time? The answer is not tanks, which should really be this unit's primary objective. Perhaps try a couple target locks instead? Splitting fire is really nice to have.


Stealth Team
My bad on the Stealth Team it was suppose to be 6 not 5. Typo which was fixed.
The fusion blasters work well added into the mix as I have seen terminators, tanks and marines killed by them. In addition it makes the enemy want to shoot them more so then your death reins as the stealth team will be a closer and more dangerous target.

Piranha
Indeed it has taken a bit of a hit from the 5th addition but like every unit in our codex if you use it right and are crafty in how you maneuver a unit like this can be very effective. In today's Dark Stars Prep tournament at a local game store. This useless piranha you call it wounded a dreadknight with a seeker missile, killed a terminator and survived three rounds of being shot at by stormtalons. In another match I used it as bait to lure space wolves out of their rhino only get get shot to bits by stealth team members. Although it did get blown up as I failed one 4+ jink save out of five. This unit has its uses its how you use it that makes or breaks its effectiveness. Although anyone is able to replace this with a transport if they wanted to.

Objectives
I never had much trouble with objectives to be honest I been playing this army format for two years. The amount of fire power I had on the table at this point level and mixed ratios normally tabled my opponents by turn four or five. In other cases I had opponents give up by turn three. But in rare matches in which I had to make my way to an objective. I would begin to march towards the objectives by turn 3 or 4. By turn 4 or 5 if the objective isn't on the other side of the table which RARELY it never is and is always close to my side or center. I'd be with in range with a strong enough unit or two to hold it.

Distant objectives that you know you can't get requires you to remove their ability to take it or disrupt them in the last turn to claim it which is easy to do in most cases. Its how you play the game so to speak.

Terrain
The tournaments I been to have 2-3 pieces and rarely 1 in each 2x2 section of table. I have had no trouble marching fire warriors on foot towards objectives. If I played on a moon scape terrain it would only severely befit this force. I bring my own cover and I have some good harassing units.

Shas'ui
In all honesty I rather have the EMP due to the off chance you can do something or be able to do something. If enemy units are that close enough to you to tank shock you or charge you with a dreadnaught its most likely your gonna loose that unit if you have no way to handle it. I have blown land raiders and transports up with emp's . I have taken down dreadnoughts in close combat with a very lucky emp roll. Granted its very risky but its a risk that pays well if it works and one you can sit back an laugh at later. Never discount an off chance of being able to do something compared to watching your unit die with no chance in any way to do anything.

I tried the drone idea, its only an extra wound but in most cases your entire squad will be eliminated in close combat that the I4 is usually pointless. An I have tested this for six months its in my opinion isn't worth it but it doesn't mean it wont work for others..

Black Sun filter.
Never ever take any crisis team, fire warrior team or leader with out this upgrade. Even though the chances of you getting night fighting are pretty fair in the new rules. The ability to shoot at targets past 36 inches with out providing stealth or shrouded bonuses makes your missile pods and rail guns hurt bad. Not to mention your fire warriors more lethal against lightly armored targets that think they have a really good cover save for a single turn. Do not ever discount this upgrade.

Broadsides
Multi-trackers
Well its a toss up on this upgrade to that of the A.S.S. I been using multi-trackers for a while mainly to increase the volume of my firepower. It has been of use some times but the majority of the time the multi-tracker system was never used. In most cases in which the multi-tracker was useful was when I was dealing with hordes, deep strike armies or lots of 11 armored flyers. In which the multi-tracker shines. Although this is an upgrade in which someone can choose to replace with A.S.S. I will not argue either way on this but I am still testing it in tournaments.

Target locks
Unwise to take this upgrade for the entire unit. The effectiveness of the unit diminishes greatly in the long run I would rather use multi-trackers. Over all its personal pref I rather make sure my target is destroyed.

*Sorry for all the edits, just catching grammar and spelling issues*

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Carrelio
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Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#4 » Feb 24 2013 01:35

No need to get defensive, I'm not attacking the Tau stuff, I love Tau stuff. I love piranhas, and BSFs, I am just trying to help you improve the list. Some of those arguments were pretty subjective, and in most cases against the norm, so I'm going to try and elaborate a bit on my points. It's great that you're making it work, but you are placing a lot of faith in lucky rolling and your opponents making the wrong choices, which as a Tau player you just can't do.

I had wondered if the stealth team was not a typo. As for fusion blasters, they are definitely better now that they are not drawing you into easy spot range (love the change to SFG!), but they are still making that unit wonky. None the less I won't argue this one with you, as I actually like the fusion blaster too.

I will however argue the piranha. First and foremost, I never called it useless. I pointed out its current flaws, but no model is useless (even Aun'Va has some uses... as terrible as he tends to be). That said, lets not kid ourselves, it took a big hit. 2 hull points and AV11/10/10 makes this thing fragile, and without old 5th ed vehicle combat goodness, its a sitting duck after it fires at... pretty much anything against a smart opponent. Yes, the disruption pod helped since we're now getting a 3+/2+ cover save every turn from targets outside of 12", but the piranha works its magic best at 12" or less (we'll ignore the burst cannon version... because who needs more S5 fire power?). At 12" you can be shot to death, you can be punched to death, you can even be rammed to death by another vehicle if the other guy is feeling cocky! Its just too fragile. Your examples seemed to be relying quite heavily on the other player not making the smartest choices. We should never build our strategies to assume our opponent will do the wrong thing. Your piranha should have died the turn you killed a terminator (as the rest of the squad walked up to your piranha and punched it to death), and those grey hunters should never have been baited out of their transport. Saying you made 4/5 cover saves is only furthering the point; luck won't cut it. Believe me, I know all about making the best of units based on how you use them; my Tau mantra has always been to ride the knife's edge right through to victory (yay helios pattern suits!), and I want the piranha to be the beast it was in 5th, but it simply is not.

In the case of the objectives, I am still worried. I see Tau players doing what you are doing all the time these days (since 6th made fire warriors much more offensively capable). But it looks to me like its just a matter of time. People are not used to Tau, but they will learn quickly. A smart player will see this list and place his objectives in places that are difficult for you to get to, to take, and to hold using fire warriors alone. He might even say "well... it is an objective based game... so why don't I kill those guys with my heavy flamer before they reach an objective and we can all go home." I don't know how long it will take, but 3 units of 12 T3 models, moving 6 inches a turn, with a 4+ save... just seems so... easy to deal with. As a Tau player you should be all the more aware of objective placement, as your units were never really meant to hold a position.
Now obviously this seems straight forward enough, but lets look at an example... The enemy reaches your deployment zone in turn 2-3; forced to choose between holding your ground and losing your fire warriors, or moving out and losing your objective, you wisely take the second choice in a hope of taking another objective or eventually reclaiming your one. You won't make it to the distant objectives without a transport or something outflanking, even worse without a transport you might get caught as you evacuate your objective and then lose the objective and the unit.
Now, breaking this down further... You place your objective in heavy cover to make your unit stand up better? Nope, they charge you and you lose the objective. So you put your objective in the open... but now your fire warriors can't hope to hold onto it (a fire warrior in the open is like a fish out of water... delicious cooked or chopped up raw!). Why not Zoidberg... er sorry... why not bring a devilfish and make your own cover?

Now that EMP... I don't think I was clear enough on my earlier point, so let me try again with more math. Don't just try to get lucky! Think about what you are doing with that thing. You are gambling that because you might lose your fire warriors you should increase the chance of losing them at a higher cost? WHY?! Your Shas'ui is 36 points! Don't let him get run over by a tank! If you pass the leadership test you have 2 options, death or glory, or just move out of the way. If you death or glory you have a 1/6 chance of actually taking out the vehicle, that means that you just gave your squad leader (your 36 point squad leader) an 83% chance of death. Instead, when you get tank shocked use his leadership to move your squad out of the way, then in your turn walk to the back armour and shoot it with your S5 weapons! 0% extra chance of losing your shas'ui? Sounds like a good deal to me.
Against a dreadnought its a little better... since you're in combat with it anyways you might as well give it a go, but honestly, how often is a dreadnought getting to your fire warriors? Railguns eat them for breakfast.

The point of the drone is not for it to work every time. In a perfect world you never get into combat. The point is that it doesn't cost you anything and provides you a small benefit. We're talking decimals of a percentage, but a gain is a gain.

The black sun filter is definitely sweet. I love them with 6th edition making night fight so frequent. But some units wont need them. Space marines don't care about your AP5 guns, the don't need a 5+ cover save in the open, they have 3+ armour. Necrons? Same story. If your meta is like many you play against 50% MEQ. Then you don't need BSF on your fire warriors. I'm not discounting the upgrade, I'm just pointing out its not always necessary

Finally, for the broadsides, I can understand using them for a little anti-flyer support, but with all those deathrains I think you should probably be pretty well off in that department as Tau go. That said, I don't judge the multitracker. I figured that might have been what you were up to. The target lock though does deserve some credit. 5 points for the flexibility to shoot whatever you want? You don't have to split your fire; if there's something that needs to come down, by all means bring it down. Landraider? Pop. Russ? Pop. But lets say your opponent doesn't field any big scary stuff? 3 rhinos? Pop pop pop! 3 dreadnoughts? Pop pop pop! A landraider and a dreadnought? Pop with 2 shots, pop with 1 shot. Chimera with its squad of guardsmen hiding behind a building? Pop Ahhh (the screams were the sound of your missiles shooting them behind the building) And all it costs is 5 points. Unwise for the whole unit? Yes. you only need 2. My personal favourite combo is 2 target arrays (one of which who is the team leader and has a hwtl along with the usual BSF and drone goodies) and one target lock.

Aegwymourn
Shas
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Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#5 » Feb 24 2013 09:57

For a decent part of you list I cannot comment simply because I don't have much experience in using them (Farsight; Piranhas; bodyguards). I will comment on Broadsides having multi-trackers since I like to use them quite a bit. I find them particularly handy since by turn 2-3 they have killed most of the enemy armour so after that they tend to stand around killing one marine or w/e a turn. With the multi-trackers if you deploy them within 24" of an objective or two they can still contribute quite a bit of anti-infantry fire during the later turns with their smart missiles. You do have to be very careful with their deployment though as that 24" isn't to much ground to cover for a clever opponent that wants to disable them. I tend to run my Broadsides in multiple two man teams though (we play mostly 1500 around here). Since you are limited to one team I would agree with Carrelio that at least one should have a Target Lock.

im2randomghgh
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Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#6 » Feb 24 2013 11:49

I'm not going to go into the list in depth, as others have beaten me to it, but I would like to comment on the EMP grenade. In 5ed, it was mostly useless, since it was expensive for the whole unit, did very little on a lone infantryman and required you to be in assault. All of those things still apply, except in 6th it has actually become a liability: without them, you are free to disengage from combat with anything that has an av (walkers), so you can flee and keep your squishy firewarriors alive. With EMP grenades, you are forced to stay in combat because, even though it is an almost insane longshot, you are still mechanically capable of causing damage. If you really want emp grenades, I'd suggest taking 6 firewarriors with EMP grenades and shoving them in a devilfish, and then just steering towards the enemy tanks. The firewarriors aren't likely to survive long, but they might take out a transport/tank, which could potentially swing the game. Either way, it's still not the best tactic, but is a somewhat more effective way to use the EMP grenade.
6th edition
W-37
D-5
L-11

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#7 » Feb 24 2013 02:39

Responding to: Shas'La - Carrelio

By all means I am not being defensive sorry if it came off that way if it did. Although my intent and purpose is to explain my opinions backed up by my many years of game play and the refinement of this list over the last 2 years. That said I will respond to what I feel I need to comment on. I do enjoy intellectual conversations with people on the tactics, game play like this. Your opinions and knowledge are helpful and I will indeed take them into consideration for sure.


Opponents
My opponents by all means are no slouches when it comes to anti-tau tactics and target priority. Its rare I see an opponent clueless about tau and what they can do a majority of the players I game with know very well in depth what our armies can do. There are two major gaming groups in the area that I live in for Warhammer 40k. One group is called Frozen North the other is called SWATT each of these groups have a large number of players create tournaments each month. In which I do very much enjoy attending when possible. I would like to give these groups props for their quality of players, sportsmanship and knowledge.

Tournament Setting and Non-Tournament Setting
I do not have it easy and I always field test my list changes at tournaments for the best results on performance and tactical use. I find competing against tournament listings to be more challenging in the long run in my opinion. There are different types of tournaments that alter your mind set even further to be competitive as well such as Gladiator and Apocalypse. Although playing against players in a non-tournament setting allows a player to build an army to fight a specific army type in which I feel alters and misleads one to build in a certain mindset then that of a tournament setting. I feel that these two different settings alter how one would construct their army listing over all. Depending on which avenue you choose to play under it can alter the army listing in the end to some extent.

The force that I have listed is for Standard 1850 Tournaments with no Forge World models/rules allowed. These are the most standard tournaments played in my area.


Piranha
I do fully understand what you mean, its your opinion on the subject and I respect that. I do agree if the enemy can charge you, shoot you with in 12 inches you deserve to have your piranha to be torn apart and it does happen. As for being rammed I have yet to see anyone do this mainly due to the fact it puts the ramming vehicle out in the open in the sights of rail guns it would be far easier to shoot it.

Although I will explain how I use the piranha as it has 3 roles it players.
Threat Priority Lure
Its a flying fusion blaster with two seeker missiles on board that has moved a great distance towards the enemy lines on the first turn. The goal is to measure out 19inches of units with weapons able to glance or punch the armor of your piranha. The use of turbo boosting and cover is highly recommended when using threat priority lure option for your 2+ cover save. Avoid weapon ranges that ignore cover if possible! There is a very good chance your opponent will waist high powered weapons on this unit which in turn reduces the amount of fire power dumped on the rest of your army.

Agile hunter
Your already behind most enemy tanks or along the side armor. If your marker lights hit then you seekers will be useful at this point. Agile hunter is good for turn 1 and turn 2 by making use of your seeker missiles. Although your still acting as a Threat Priority Lure drawing as much fire as you can from the rest of your army. The use of cover or turbo boosting is recommend.

Hunter
By turn 3 or even at the earliest of turn 2. You should now be able to attempt using your fusion blaster from behind the enemies advancement. In some cases you will be going after rear line artillery and or tanks providing covering fire. When you enter hunter mode the survivability of your piranha greatly diminishes so use it wisely.

Above is my thought process and a glimpse one the tactical use of this unit. I do not expect my piranha to survive past turn 3 it is why I only have 1. In most matches and it does make up for its cost by the amount of fire it can absorb on average plus the units its seeker missiles and fusion blaster has taken out. Again for my play style I find the piranha far more useful and less of a liability compared to a single devil fish. But as I said before your more then welcome to take out the piranha and use its points for other things in this listing.

Tank Shock, Walkers & EMP
I do agree with you on the fact you will not stand your ground and attempt to use the EMP on a tank that is tank shocking. The chances of you destroying it is pretty slim but there is a chance if you got nothing to loose. The emp use is after a tank shock as it can be thrown at a tank! Yes I even checked with GW and tournament judges. Its a good chance you can hit and do something to the tank more so then having to roll 5's and 6's. Along with hard wired multi-tracker you can toss your emp and shoot your pulse rifle.

If a walker assaults your fire warriors they will be forced to make a leadership check and will most likely fail it. Upon failing your leadership or choosing to fail it the walker will have a great chance at cutting your unit down. But if you had an EMP grenade there is the off chance you can do something compared to above option which gives no chance. Walkers will get in on you by deep strike, flying models able to carry them and by some special character model able to teleport. It can and will happen.


Black Sun Filter
Granted a good number of armies have 4+ saves in them and the cover save granted by night fighting can seam meaning less. But your also thinking about the meta of what people will field most likely power armor as much as they can. I have seen lately a growing number of henchmen squads, eldar, dark eldar, orcs and imperial guard being fielded as allies. The use of the black sun filter has become more and more in demand even on fire warrior teams. Lets not forget that our enemies will be making use of cover for transports and lightly armored skimmers and night fighting only makes them harder to hit. So the value of the black sun filter on fire warrior teams has merit every shot counts.


Target lock Vs. Multi-tracker on Broadsides
The enemy if they are smart will use cover and with only 25% of the vehicle needing to be obscured they get a +5 taking this into consideration. In most cases the enemy will position his transports and walkers in a why he always gets cover if possible. This forces you to dump 2 or more shots into a target to confirm a kill. So when we look at the effectiveness of target lock when shooting at units that have a chance to save split firing may not be the way to go. That is all I need to say between the two choices. But it all comes down to personal preference. I have been considering in making a slight adjustment for some time in changing one of the multi-trackers to a target lock in theory its lightly improves over all tank killing by a small degree.

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swiftblade_nic
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Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#8 » Feb 25 2013 01:05

Hi Silvtalon!

I would just like to ask - I seem to have poor success using the Piranha.

I have tried to use the seeker-in-the-butt-after-turboboosting tactic, but it's often a one-trick pony. A single seeker has a 9.26% chance of destroying a vehicle outright (assuming no cover saves and against AV 10). I'm not sure if that is worth risking my Piranha.

Also, I note that your list only has 3 markerlights from the 3 X FW squads. Do you feel that is enough in your experience? I have a problem of not having enough markerlights to fire off my seekers, and usually seekers end up being a waste of points. Maybe it's just me, but I always end up improving BS and removing cover saves, and I use 2 X Tetras.

Just my thoughts! :)

Resv
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Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#9 » Feb 25 2013 09:24

To echo Carrelio, I think there are a few changes that you could play with (keep in mind I don't change anything if you don't want to) that might benefit your list. I think he has outlined them well enough so I would reiterate, but I did want to bring up one or two issues I see with your list.

Farsight can be a great HQ however is 6th edition the only real reasons to take him are The Dawnblade, the ability to allow every unit to become bonded for free, and his bodyguard unit. In the grand scheme of things however he is expensive for what he brings to the table not to mention what he forces you to leave off of the table. The notion that Farsight is going to be bait is pretty dead on, but should always remember that taking and holding objectives are more important in 6th than attempting to get your opponent to commit forces to strike at a single unit who doesn't really have amazing range to start with. Your list is clearly built for awesome defense with a few solid harassment units, I think you have a cear plan of action and your list is built to capitalize on your tactics.

As I said above, 6th edition far more concerned with objectives rather than the slugging matches of 5th edition, you could be looking at 6-7 objectives on a board. To make it clear, I don't think you will have to much trouble defending however I think you are in danger of ending up out maneuvered. Sure, your suits are amazing at covering ground but they lack real speed and the ability to threaten a wide area. If an opponent is able to get his forces to you quickly, ala drop pods or out flanking, I think your idea of setting up a trap might fall apart. Or, if your opponent just decides to to engage your units at all, instead moving to castle their own forces, then moving with skimmers or other fast units to contest your objectives.

I think your list is fine for what you want it to do however I don't think your battles are going to go quite the way you might expect them too. There are many armies that will be able to get around your defenses and cause you a real headache. If you don't with to change up your army list (which I don't really think you have to if you don't want to) then I really suggest you might rethink your strategy a little bit.

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#10 » Feb 25 2013 12:30

Responding to: Shas'La - swiftblade_nic
Piranha
The whole objective of the piranha is to draw fire having one or two seeker missiles makes a enemy commander choose between shooting your other parts of your army or the lucky pen or glances to take down your skimmer. The 1st turn always draws hefty fire against it and I usually have side armor hits on a target even with 3 marker lights one of them will hit is mark 1.33% of the time if calculations are correct. If it survives till turn 3 or later then it has done its job very well. It all comes down to how you maneuver your piranha to make it successful or not and how your dice behave. It is not an easy unit to use that's for sure but it does add a highly mobile annoyance to the field.

Marker lights on Fire warrior teams.
You have only a 1.33% chance of getting 1 mark normally and only a .05% chance of hitting a flyer or lower. In the last three tournaments (9 rounds) in which I used marker lights on fire warriors I obtained one marker light hit per round on average and very rarely two. I have only seen two marker light hits on flyers thus far to improve the quad guns ballistic skill of the firer. I do not expect them to hit but if they do they are quite a benefit. As the army itself doesn't need them but the effects are quite helpful.


Responding to: Resv
I do indeed keep in mind the feed back from others and make adjustments where I feel they are needed the list is ever evolving slowly. Its not a end all be all but a refined template over the years of my game play style and what I feel comfortable with.

Objectives
Indeed this army does some what lack the ability to cover ground quickly, has a low number of troops choices I can use. It may be it's crutch but it also is a double edge sword allowing you to bring in far greater firepower strength to the table. Everyone is so focused on the meta they are looking for get weapons in mass to deal with power armor or pyskers. What happens if you build an army that doesn't focus on the meta and plays a different game you may find interesting results. None the less to answer the question it comes down to target priority, knowing when to advance your units and keeping objectives close.

Examples:
In matches were there is 6 objectives on the table I keep one or two in my control zone if possible the third just outside in the open but near cover if possible. I eliminate all troops of the apposing force or try to contest in the last around. The amount of fire power I can bring in a 30 inch range is impressive anything below 15 inches becomes down right deadly to enemy units.

In matches that require relic retrieval, I use the relic as bait an then proceed to systematically remove support units all the while giving the squad holding the relic nothing but problems. Most of my matches in this result in me winning by getting the secondary and third options. I don't ever to expect to hold the primary but at the same time its a very slim chance that my opponent will hold it either. That of course if your a Dark Angles player with a blob squad of allies and your leader is the guy with the helm that gives 4+ inv save to everyone in the unit. (The only unit I ever had trouble with). Relic comes down to focusing on the other objectives to earn your points more so and preventing the enemy from holding the relic.

Honestly it comes down to experience and play style. I have had 17+ years warhammer 40k gaming experience and played tau exclusively since launch.

Other forces tactics.
Yeah I agree with you really fast armies, drop pods and deep strikes are painful and sometimes hard to deal with honestly. I have even had my forces out maneuvered from time to time. But each time I pulled though in some way or another as it does come down to luck, target priority, unit placements, unit movements and experience. I haven't been tabled in a couple years so far but I have suffered some defeats, a small number of draws and a good number of wins. So I guess I am doing all right.

When facing armies that can mass deep strike, move fast or out flank you set up differently and prepare for it as best you can its all up to how effective it is and how effective you are in return. As those tactics are big gambles in which can pay off or not depending on how luck your opponent is. In matches like these you never know what will happen until it happens.

Side notes.
I will indeed take in consideration your comments and will most likely field test things a little more. I will indeed look into changing out the piranha for a devil fish and see how that plays out a bit more. All the comments thus far have been really good and I thank you for your input keep it coming if you have any more ideas, concerns or issues. A lot of information and tactics have come from this website it has been extremely informative over the years.

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#11 » Mar 01 2013 11:04

Carrelio wrote:It's a start

First things first, your stealth team is illegal at the moment. you only get 1 fusion blaster for every 3 models, so you need a team of 6 to get a seconds one. You may also want to consider dropping the fusion blaster entirely as they really muddle the purpose of the unit.


Sorry it took me a bit of time to double check this with a few other players. But your incorrect you can have 2 fusion blasters with a group of 4 or 5 stealth suits. If you direct your attention to page 35 of the tau empire codex and read options. "One in three models" I didn't catch this right away until I re-read it and checked it with a judge I know that runs the tournaments in my area.

User avatar
Carrelio
Shas
Posts: 330

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#12 » Mar 02 2013 02:06

That would indeed be nice, but it is not the case. You said it yourself, the rule is "One in three models", so you need 3 models to unlock the first fusion blaster, and then 3 more (or 6 total) to unlock the second fusion blaster. 2/4 (which would work out to be 1/2) or 2/5 (1/2.5) does not fit the criteria for 2/6 (which makes fusion blasters a 1/3 ratio).

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: Farsight Enclave, All commers 1850 tournement listing.

Post#13 » Mar 04 2013 09:14

Carrelio wrote:That would indeed be nice, but it is not the case. You said it yourself, the rule is "One in three models", so you need 3 models to unlock the first fusion blaster, and then 3 more (or 6 total) to unlock the second fusion blaster. 2/4 (which would work out to be 1/2) or 2/5 (1/2.5) does not fit the criteria for 2/6 (which makes fusion blasters a 1/3 ratio).


I probably got that confused with the similar wording with the space wolves codex for the wolf guard. That have an upgrade that can be taken, almost like tau they are almost very similar but slightly different in wording. Meh no biggie we all make mistakes.

Anyhow I am doing a re-adjustment to the listing above to reflect some changes I have made. The changes I made will reflect the army comp I used at a tournament a few days ago. I took third place with three solid wins. I scored max points in the first match by annihilating my opponent. The last two matches were solid back and forth skirmishes over our objectives and the relic. I earned almost all the points I could expect for holding my opponents objective. I am honestly looking forward to testing this list out some more soon.

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