Dealing with Custodes?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#19 » Dec 14 2017 06:19

Emberkahn wrote:If you can pop both land raiders turn one before he even moves (And this is very very doable given he won't have much of a screen) you win turn one.

This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

However, those Land Raider have 5++, do don't count on destroying both on turn one. Just knocking out one is victory enough.

Aelfwyrd
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#20 » Dec 14 2017 10:56

They also have a 6+ feel no pain. Dropping the land raider won't win the game as the custodes are still t5 2+ 3++ with a storm shield. A five man squad with the vexilla has 21 melee attacks plus 4 pistols

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Emberkahn
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#21 » Dec 15 2017 12:49

Arka0415 wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:If you can pop both land raiders turn one before he even moves (And this is very very doable given he won't have much of a screen) you win turn one.

This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

However, those Land Raider have 5++, do don't count on destroying both on turn one. Just knocking out one is victory enough.


I would like to edit my previous sentiments on the matter.

Y'vahra. As many as possible. Easiest win of your life. All of their weapons (excluding flechette) do 3 damage so are perfect for killing the infantry. Further, they are point for point about as cost effective as a commander against these Land Raiders. Turn one, jump and kill the land raiders. Each should do a little over 11 wounds on average so that shouldn't be difficult to pull off. Then all he is left with is his infantry. If he charges he is facing the s6 D3 flamer hits from all the yvahra within range.

I honestly cannot imagine many situations where they are more useful. From the above list its not clear if you have them, but if you have any way of getting your hands on them, should be very very cruisy for you.

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#22 » Dec 15 2017 03:37

Aelfwyrd wrote:They also have a 6+ feel no pain. Dropping the land raider won't win the game as the custodes are still t5 2+ 3++ with a storm shield. A five man squad with the vexilla has 21 melee attacks plus 4 pistols

It won't win the game, but the army will lose 50% of it's anti-tank firepower and a lot of its mobility. If we Tau are good at anything it's skirmishing. I would bet that a Tau player could out-skirmish a Custodes player in almost any scenario.

Kerrygan
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#23 » Dec 15 2017 04:13

Arka0415 wrote:This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!


Hello. What are you talking about when you say "screening units"?

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#24 » Dec 15 2017 04:42

Kerrygan wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

Hello. What are you talking about when you say "screening units"?

A "screening unit" is a weak infantry unit that guards a larger, more powerful unit. If a squad of Kroot stand in front of a Stormsurge and make sure the Stormsurge doesn't get charged, then those Kroot are a "screening unit."

Custodes armies have no weak infantry, so they cannot "screen" their Land Raiders. This makes it easy for us to get close to them via Manta Strike.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#25 » Dec 15 2017 04:50

Arka0415 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

Hello. What are you talking about when you say "screening units"?

A "screening unit" is a weak infantry unit that guards a larger, more powerful unit. If a squad of Kroot stand in front of a Stormsurge and make sure the Stormsurge doesn't get charged, then those Kroot are a "screening unit."

Custodes armies have no weak infantry, so they cannot "screen" their Land Raiders. This makes it easy for us to get close to them via Manta Strike.


Though nothing stopping them bringing a cheap patrol / Battalion of guardsmen to screen for them.

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#26 » Dec 15 2017 04:57

Nymphomanius wrote:Though nothing stopping them bringing a cheap patrol / Battalion of guardsmen to screen for them.

Absolutely. In fact, that would be a very competitive strategy for the otherwise... limited Custodes roster. In this particular instance of the pure Custodes army it's not anything to worry about, but I'm sure a real Custodes (Imperial Soup) list would include some kind of screening unit.

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T.Wiseau
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#27 » Dec 15 2017 03:23

Emberkahn wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Emberkahn wrote:If you can pop both land raiders turn one before he even moves (And this is very very doable given he won't have much of a screen) you win turn one.

This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

However, those Land Raider have 5++, do don't count on destroying both on turn one. Just knocking out one is victory enough.


I would like to edit my previous sentiments on the matter.

Y'vahra. As many as possible. Easiest win of your life. All of their weapons (excluding flechette) do 3 damage so are perfect for killing the infantry. Further, they are point for point about as cost effective as a commander against these Land Raiders. Turn one, jump and kill the land raiders. Each should do a little over 11 wounds on average so that shouldn't be difficult to pull off. Then all he is left with is his infantry. If he charges he is facing the s6 D3 flamer hits from all the yvahra within range.

I honestly cannot imagine many situations where they are more useful. From the above list its not clear if you have them, but if you have any way of getting your hands on them, should be very very cruisy for you.


As a matter of fact I do have an Y'vahra. I just need to paint it before my next game and make room for it in the list. As you say those dmg 3 weapons are a huge threat to the custodians and since it is a battlesuit all the laser from the land raiders will go straight into the shield drones :biggrin:

Only downside is that Forgeworld stuff tends to be banned from local tournaments for some reason. But that is no dealbreaker since we mostly play friendly games anyway.
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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#28 » Dec 15 2017 09:28

Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:Though nothing stopping them bringing a cheap patrol / Battalion of guardsmen to screen for them.

Absolutely. In fact, that would be a very competitive strategy for the otherwise... limited Custodes roster. In this particular instance of the pure Custodes army it's not anything to worry about, but I'm sure a real Custodes (Imperial Soup) list would include some kind of screening unit.


I don't think a screening unit will help the Custodes player all that much vs T'au at least.
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Nymphomanius
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#29 » Dec 16 2017 01:10

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:Though nothing stopping them bringing a cheap patrol / Battalion of guardsmen to screen for them.

Absolutely. In fact, that would be a very competitive strategy for the otherwise... limited Custodes roster. In this particular instance of the pure Custodes army it's not anything to worry about, but I'm sure a real Custodes (Imperial Soup) list would include some kind of screening unit.


I don't think a screening unit will help the Custodes player all that much vs T'au at least.


So if he created a human bubble 10" away from the land raiders how would you get your QFC in range?

You can shoot the bubble to get closer but only after the first missed opportunity to Manta Strike into range

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GND
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#30 » Dec 16 2017 03:27

If he creates a bubble 10" from the Landraider, that means his Landraider is at least 11" away from the edge of his deployment zone, meaning he lost and entire turn of movement before he can disembark the Custodes into enemy lines. Bubblewrap like this is usually useful for fairly static tanks and artillery with long range shooting, not expensive transports that need to deliver elite infantry into CC.

Custodes would need screening units that can infiltrate or scout move. So maybe Ratlings? Not sure how costly that would be to pull off, or if there are other cheap infiltrating screens available to the Imperium.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#31 » Dec 16 2017 04:17

GND wrote:If he creates a bubble 10" from the Landraider, that means his Landraider is at least 11" away from the edge of his deployment zone, meaning he lost and entire turn of movement before he can disembark the Custodes into enemy lines. Bubblewrap like this is usually useful for fairly static tanks and artillery with long range shooting, not expensive transports that need to deliver elite infantry into CC.

Custodes would need screening units that can infiltrate or scout move. So maybe Ratlings? Not sure how costly that would be to pull off, or if there are other cheap infiltrating screens available to the Imperium.


Or chances turn 1 nd hopes he goes first then runs is guard shield 14-24" upfield to shield the raiders

Kerrygan
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#32 » Dec 20 2017 12:16

Arka0415 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:This is a good point- there's just no way that an all-Custodes army could bring screening units. Fire away!

Hello. What are you talking about when you say "screening units"?

A "screening unit" is a weak infantry unit that guards a larger, more powerful unit. If a squad of Kroot stand in front of a Stormsurge and make sure the Stormsurge doesn't get charged, then those Kroot are a "screening unit."

Custodes armies have no weak infantry, so they cannot "screen" their Land Raiders. This makes it easy for us to get close to them via Manta Strike.


Thank you. I think you were talking about something kind of shooting screening.

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#33 » Dec 26 2017 02:57

Nymphomanius wrote:
AnonAmbientLight wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Absolutely. In fact, that would be a very competitive strategy for the otherwise... limited Custodes roster. In this particular instance of the pure Custodes army it's not anything to worry about, but I'm sure a real Custodes (Imperial Soup) list would include some kind of screening unit.


I don't think a screening unit will help the Custodes player all that much vs T'au at least.


So if he created a human bubble 10" away from the land raiders how would you get your QFC in range?

You can shoot the bubble to get closer but only after the first missed opportunity to Manta Strike into range
If we are talking guard, then he may not have much of a bubble wrap helping him. If we are talking infiltrators of some kind, he still may not have much of a bubble wrap to really help him.

As mentioned previously, bubble wrap is useful in keeping melee units away from your shooty boys and to limit deep strike potential. T'au are not as negatively hit by things like that, for the most part. Also if the player is grabbing things other than Custodes, he will be limiting his overall impact on the game.

The Custodes player in this match up is playing a high risk game. He can essentially only go after one or two targets for the entire game because he lacks mobility and time to maneuver himself. So if he is not going all in on his Custodes strategy, he becomes that much more ineffective at his all in strategy.

Don't get me wrong, this kind of thing can work. I run GKs in much the same way. However, my GKs are 10x more maneuverable than Custodes because they can deepstrike most units and also cast gate of infinity.

Honestly, OPs friend should probably get GKs if he wants to use 2+ beat sticks.
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