Fall of Cadia and You

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
Posts: 350

Fall of Cadia and You

Post#1 » Jan 18 2017 02:58

Fall of Cadia, the next chapter in the ongoing saga that is The Great Gue'la Civil War, taking place in an anomalous region of space far, far from the Empire. Surely, this story about the crumbling Imperium and it's band of breakaways has nothing to do with us, right, Shas'O? Well, that's not entirely so.

Due to some quirky wording, any character in an ARMY that includes Celestine or Cawl, and that can purchase relic-equivalents, can purchase from unique Celestine or Cawl Relic tables. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/01/ ... tions.html

That means that if you ally Cawl in, for example, your Crisis Commander can take, say, a relic that lets your unit overwatch at BS2 and gives Wall-of-Death overwatch an automatic 3 hits instead of D3. And because Tau Commanders can take buy as many relics/sig-systems as they want, they can also improve their invulnerable saves by +1 for 10 points and reduce enemy charging distance by 2.

Celestine has fewer Tau-interesting options, but among them is a 15 pistol that ignores invulnerable saves.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 788

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#2 » Jan 18 2017 03:28

Tau characters can have only 1 relic as well. The reason we can take more than 1 signature system is because they aren't relics and because various entries say we can take more than one.

That being said it's an interesting note that we could theoretically take some of those items as well.

Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 229

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#3 » Jan 18 2017 03:34

Signature systems may be the spiritual Tau equivalent of relics, but probably aren't equivalent in the eyes of the game rules.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 595

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#4 » Jan 18 2017 05:27

While our commanders may take multiple signature systems I do not think they can take relics at all. There are a couple of choices that would be great but an opponent would have reasonable justification for challenging it.

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
Posts: 350

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#5 » Jan 18 2017 08:14

Are we still on that tick? That Sig-systems aren't artefact/relic-equivalents? I thought it had been decided that SS was a relic, but that we were one of the few codices that provided the exception to one-per-model? After all, it's not like the Talisman of Arthas Moloch is considered a signature system, but it's not like it's a piece of Tau-designed equipment.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 788

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#6 » Jan 19 2017 01:42

SinisterSamurai wrote:Are we still on that tick? That Sig-systems aren't artefact/relic-equivalents? I thought it had been decided that SS was a relic, but that we were one of the few codices that provided the exception to one-per-model? After all, it's not like the Talisman of Arthas Moloch is considered a signature system, but it's not like it's a piece of Tau-designed equipment.

We never left. It doesn't matter what it is logically, it only matters how it's written in the rules and as long as there is no FAQ saying otherwise Tau don't use relics (note that i fully expect a FAQ saying we do use relics but are an exception being able to take multiple ones on some models).

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 564

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#7 » Jan 19 2017 10:25

This is hardcore wishful thinking.

For new players or the curious, OP is incorrect. Tau do not have relics and therefore are unable to take relics, so the line of reasoning doesn't follow through.

Even if they did, you can't use things from armies that you are not battle brothers with anyway.

This is purely trying to overreach on a supposed "misunderstanding".

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Overheal
Shas'Saal
Posts: 56

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#8 » Jan 19 2017 11:32

rel·ic
ˈrelik/Submit
noun
an object surviving from an earlier time, especially one of historical or sentimental interest.
synonyms: artifact, historical object, ancient object, antiquity, antique
"a Viking relic"
a part of a deceased holy person's body or belongings kept as an object of reverence.
synonyms: remains, corpse, bones; cadaver
"a saint's relics"
an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded.
"individualized computer programming and time-sharing would become expensive relics"


I don't think SigSys' fit this description at all.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 788

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#9 » Jan 19 2017 12:48

Overheal wrote:
rel·ic
ˈrelik/Submit
noun
an object surviving from an earlier time, especially one of historical or sentimental interest.
synonyms: artifact, historical object, ancient object, antiquity, antique
"a Viking relic"
a part of a deceased holy person's body or belongings kept as an object of reverence.
synonyms: remains, corpse, bones; cadaver
"a saint's relics"
an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded.
"individualized computer programming and time-sharing would become expensive relics"


I don't think SigSys' fit this description at all.

Even if they would it wouldn't matter. The FAQ speaks about relics, Tau don't have relics. If GW meant all the kind of items HQs + other models can take outside of their usual wargear they should have worded it better.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 564

Re: Fall of Cadia and You

Post#10 » Jan 19 2017 02:42

There's nothing wrong with the wording of the rules. Refer to the BRB. You cannot share ANYTHING with another army unless they are Battle Brothers, and even then it is limited.

So why would relics suddenly be able to be shared across non-BB factions? Because there's a sort of kind of vague wording? That's a massive stretch. When you follow through on the logic, it doesn't work out no matter how badly you want it to. On top of that, its borderline poor sportsmanship to suggest it because it's blatant power gaming.

If they wanted Imperium Relics to be shared with everyone, it would have specifically mentioned it. As it stands now, it is pretty clear that the relics are to be shared among Armies of the Imperium. In fact, I would wager there is a codex entry that basically says "The following rules and formations to be used with Imperium Armies" or something of that nature in the Gathering Storm book.

Edit: This also goes back to the Coldstar debate and whether or not it could take Sig Sys. The entry in the codex was extremely clear. It said REPLACE the old suit, with the Coldstar Suit and here is what you get. People argued that because it didn't mention Sig Sys, they could take Sig Sys. That doesn't work out because the old suit COULD take it, it was repalced, and now you use the rules for the Coldstar Suit instead, which does not include Sig Sys at all.

It's the same thing here more or less. Just because it doesn't SAY that you can't take them, doesn't mean you can.

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