Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Iron-Fist
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#109 » Jul 02 2017 08:48

Shas'Bro wrote:Is there something in the BRB that stipulates of models don't have an explicitly mentioned ccw that they automatically have an AP0 "close combat weapon"?


Yes, this is exactly what it says in the BRB
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The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

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Lechai Skull
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#110 » Jul 02 2017 08:48

Shas'Bro wrote:I see the FAQ lists close combat weapons as changing, but where does it say that battlesuits carry a close combat weapon? I'm looking through all the battlesuit entries and I have yet to find any close combat weapon they carry that's AP0. I'm not trying to be pedantic :P but I'm trying to find anything. Under the Tau Melee weapons section in Xenos 2, there does not exist any weapon in the 5 or 6 entries called close combat weapon.

Is there something in the BRB that stipulates of models don't have an explicitly mentioned ccw that they automatically have an AP0 "close combat weapon"? If not, you guys might be creatively interpreting it incorrectly for benefit (trust me I would enjoy -1 AP attacks in cc too, but it sounds too good to be true).


the core rulebook that states that if a model does not have a melee weapon, it is considered to be equipped with a basic melee weapon
Strength: User
Damage: 1

The FAQ changed its AP from '-' to '0'. :) :) :)

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Shas'Bro
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#111 » Jul 02 2017 08:53

Ah I see! I was looking for that "models that aren't armed with a ccw..." jazz lol. In past editions you just struck with your base strength.

That's a big buff then! ATS FOR DAYSSSSS
*As your Rules Laywer, I advise you against that action

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Panzer
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#112 » Jul 03 2017 01:04

Shas'Bro wrote:Ah I see! I was looking for that "models that aren't armed with a ccw..." jazz lol. In past editions you just struck with your base strength.

That's a big buff then! ATS FOR DAYSSSSS

No, at least in 7th edition models without a melee weapon or a pistol where considered to have a CCW with S:User and AP0 as well. Literally nothing changed there except that pistols don't matter for melee anymore. ;)

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Iron-Fist
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#113 » Jul 07 2017 01:13

Played another game @ 1500pts with the Coldstorm list, this one against a tricky GSC/Tyranid army:

HQ Magus (familiar)
Troops Terms (30, 25 devs)
HS Trygon Prime (3xscy tals, bio spike, AG)
HS Biovore
FA Muco
FA Muco
FA Spore (3)

Battalion (GSC)
HQ Primus
HQ Primus
Elite Stealers (20)
Elite Stealers (20)
Troops Acolytes (10, 1 demo, 1 saw)
Troops Neos (10, 2xmining, 2xgrenade)
Troops Neos (10, 2xmining, 1xgrenade)

My army was:
Vanguard Detachment
-Coldstar Commander (ATS+DC)
-3x Drone Squads (5x gun drones, 1x market drone)

Supreme Command Detachment
-4x Coldstar Commanders (ATS+SG)

Supreme Command Detachment
-4x Coldstar Commanders (ATS+SG)

His army had a scary alpha strike with the trygon plus termagants and the two big squads of stealers with primus in cultist ambush, but not much of a ranged threat. We got Big Guns as the mission and quarters deployment. We played deployment chicken putting stuff in reserve, for him everything but the neophytes, spores, magus, and biovore; for me 6 commanders. I deployed the drones in a big buffer arch around the 3 remaining commanders, his stuff spread to block a lot of his deployment zone. I finished first (barely) and elected to go second to see if he'd show his hand.

Turn 1:
He brings on his trygon/gants and 1 unit of stealers. He gets a 6 on the cultist ambush, letting him walk right up to my screen and multi charge everything. they demolish all but 1 single drone, kill the DC commander, and put 2 wounds on another commander. I was surprised they didn't kill everything, but overwatch proved effective (got 6 stealers) and upon doing the math I found that it actually takes around 50 stealer attacks to bring down a commander. The DC commander also died under a big flurry of wounds, over 10 wounds inflicted, but because he was a character none of them got passed on.

On my turn the 2 surviving suits scooted and were joined in a tight formation by the other 6 suits along the board edge, unfounded suits on the outside. The 20" movement allowed them to get out of possible devoured range of the gants while still being in burst cannon range of the stealers. They mowed down the stealers and primus with burst cannons fairly easily, the missiles all shot the trygon since I figured it would take a turn or 2 to wear it down.

Turn 2
With everything on the board, this is his big chance. The genes are able to come on at 9'', hiding behind a building to avoid overwatch. The acolytes come too. He rolled a 6 and 1 for the stealers charge, used a command point to reroll it, and got another 6, everyone got caught up. However, because the group of commanders was so tight and wedged against the board edge, he couldn't get any space on the wounded commander. He was also kinda spread out over the commanders, he had to target 3 different commanders. He ended up doing 9 wounds but spread over thise 3 commanders, killing none. The commanders killed 13(!) Stealers in response with melee. He used 2 cp to pass the test.

On my turn I ran away, finished the stealers and primus with burst cannons while missiles took down the trygon and put ~6 wounds on the termagants (who took double the damage from morale).

Turn 3 he shuffled a bit and then conceded, with nothing that could touch the commanders left in the board.

Take away:
Massed commanders are GOOD in combat. They are tough, especially since it's hard to focus them down, and hit back hard.

Coldstars work really well to isolate enemy forces and fight 400pts with 1200 pts.

Keeping some drone bubble wrap helps a lot with melee alpha strikes.
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The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#114 » Jul 07 2017 01:20

That list always strikes me as entertaining, and I plan to proxy it some day myself.

With that much raw mobility, it reminds me of the all-flyer list that has been winning tournaments recently, except more vulnerable to assault but less restrictive in movement - an arguably worthwhile tradeoff, IMO.

Keep up the good work!

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Iron-Fist
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#115 » Jul 07 2017 02:09

More vulnerable to assault, but also more deadly in assault!

Still, those flyers just seem sooo point efficient... I dunno, hard to overcome that in any really feasible way.
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Emberkahn
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#116 » Aug 02 2017 10:34

Miscellaneous cold-star-use: Priority Objective

I played a game recently with a coldstar as my warlord, personally thinking that they were slightly worst than CIB battlesuits, but thinking I would give them a go.

This badboy netted a cool 13 Victory points in a single game (3 x Priority orders received, 1 x first blood)

The fact that he moves super fast, and has a very high damage output means that it is super easy to grab the points from Priority Orders received, which is a fairly common tactical objective. In this context, I don't think I will go many games without a Coldstar as my warlord. His flexibility is just too good.

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MNGamer
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#117 » Aug 03 2017 12:54

Shas'Bro wrote:I see the FAQ lists close combat weapons as changing, but where does it say that battlesuits carry a close combat weapon? I'm looking through all the battlesuit entries and I have yet to find any close combat weapon they carry that's AP0. I'm not trying to be pedantic :P but I'm trying to find anything. Under the Tau Melee weapons section in Xenos 2, there does not exist any weapon in the 5 or 6 entries called close combat weapon.

Is there something in the BRB that stipulates of models don't have an explicitly mentioned ccw that they automatically have an AP0 "close combat weapon"? If not, you guys might be creatively interpreting it incorrectly for benefit (trust me I would enjoy -1 AP attacks in cc too, but it sounds too good to be true).


Page 9 of the battle primer states that models are assumed to use the basic cc weapon profile unless they are equipped with a different cc weapon they would like to use.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Iron-Fist
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#118 » Aug 17 2017 01:19

Did a 1500 or tournament with a modified Coldstar list, mixed results but ended up taking 2nd place (never got to play the first place finisher) and a pretty hefty gift card.

It was 3 rounds with a mix of missions (we didn't know them before hand), 1 objective and 2 kill points with modifiers. Armies could be 2 detachments max, with nk duplicates.

My list was:
Supreme Command Detachment
-4x Coldstar Commanders (ATS+SG)
-1x Coldstar Commander (ATS+DC)

Outsider Detachment
-Longstrike (Rail Gun+Gun Drones)
-2x Drone Squad (6 Gun Drones)
-2xDrone Squad (3 Gun Drones+2 Marker Drones)
-2x Hammerhead (Ion cannon+Gun Drones)

My meta is pretty MEQ infantry heavy, but I might have skewed too much for that. The hammerhead were good but simply didn't have the punch to work through the sheer number of high toughness, good save wounds you can see.

First game was against my good friend Thomas and his Salamanders. We've played at other tournaments and it's always fun. The mission was kill points.

His list:
-lieutenant (reroll 1
-Aquila Fortress with Macrocannon (T10, 3+, 30 wounds!)
-4x Whirlwinds w/ castellans
-2x quake guns (or whatever they are called) with techmarine gunners
-3x big terminator guys with 6x cover ignoring lascannons

Obviously this is a bad match up for my force, I left all the fusion commanders I needed at home that day. He turtles in a corner behind his fortress, with the lascannons hidden inside his 30 wound monstrosity. I deploy the drones and hammerhead, deepstrike the coldstars.

He gets first and kills Longstrike with his lascannons right off the bat. Ugh. The rest of the army sprinkles some wounds on hammerheads and drones. It's clear the 6 lascannon dudes are the heavy hitters, and I can't get to them! I decide it's best to go after the rest: I land the coldstars on one flank of the fortress, focus down a whirlwind with then and the hammerhead and assault another.

Following turns go much the same, lascannons poo hammerhead, a few wounds from the rest, struggle to kill anything on his side. I work my way through his artillery but the characters hide in the fortress and I just can't put the damage on it to take it down. He kills hammerhead and drones but can't bring down any commanders with placement shenanigans. He wins 7 to 6, putting both of us on the low end of points.

Next game is vs Primaris marines, kill points again, it's the kronor mission with double kill points for being 3+/2+ save.

His list:
-captain and chaplain
-dakka hover tank with like 50 shots possible
-dakka dread
-hell blasters
-2x squads of readers
-3x primaries tac squads

Quarters deployment, i keep commanders in reserve and he deploys most infantry in a central building and tanks forward. He goes first but dakka guys out of range of hammerhead, just plink some drones. Next turn I drop into a side building, and take out both tanks with solid HH and missile rolls. It's downhill from there, he can't reach the coldstars who jump in and kill one squad at a time with burst while whittling down the next from range with missiles. Missiles and ion cannons are amazing vs primaries, btw. I end up tabling him and catching up in points in a big way.

Last game vs a veteran ork player with 2 solid wins so far. His army is
-120 boys
-painboy on bike
-megaboss
-morkanaut (the one with the 5+ invul field)
-15 looted

Now this is more like it. Drones and hammerheads deploy deep on flanks after he's put everything down very centrally. He goes first and runs forward, but the rolls aren't great. My turn coldstars drop on one flank and decimate the nearby mob and put casualties in looted with missiles, hammerheads open up on the morkanaut, drones stand at ~16'' and just lay pulse fire into the nearest mob. It was brutal and it demoralized him, but he's a really good player and finished it out.

The next turns saw the morkanaut blow up, zero mobs make CC, and the coldstars run around murdering. I table him and grab every objective with coldstars for max points.

I get second in points, only 3 win army (deathguard, mechanized) gets first. I should have faced him in the last round but it was still fun.

All in all a good showing, coldstar mobility means any army eithout a lot of "reach out and touch em" is just completely impotent. Their invul save makes them feel tougher than our tanks vs lascannon type weapons. Hammerheads are great but can't put the sheer number of wounds that fusion commanders can, I won't be leaving home without them again.
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Heldericht
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#119 » Aug 22 2017 12:20

Iron-Fist wrote:Did a 1500 or tournament with a modified Coldstar list...


Thanks for the detailed report!

I'm adding 3-4 Coldstars in every list now. The objective grabbing and charge potential against gunlines is just too good.

And yeah, agreed about fusion commanders. At least 1 is necessary in any list.

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