Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Pyropower
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#37 » Jun 03 2017 02:35

I think we all knew if that's wasn't the case it would have been faq'd quite early on :P

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Panzer
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#38 » Jun 03 2017 03:40

Yep, that also explains why Poxwalker have a 7+ armor save. That way they still benefit from Cover unlike it would've been with a " - " armor save

Shadeseraph
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#39 » Jun 03 2017 06:03

Eh, a pity, but yes, it would have been patched sooner or later.

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boomwolf
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#40 » Jun 03 2017 07:57

Oh well, the ATS is still horribly underpriced even without silly melee applications

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Panzer
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#41 » Jun 03 2017 08:12

boomwolf wrote:Oh well, the ATS is still horribly underpriced even without silly melee applications

Not really. It costs a whole weapon slot (which is I admit not an issue on the Cold Star). In almost every case an additional weapon is better than ATS.

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Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#42 » Jun 03 2017 09:20

It's under priced on a commander and priced juuuust right for a stealth suit, increasing the per point damage of a burst cannon but decreasing the number of models/wounds you can put on the table.
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The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

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Panzer
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#43 » Jun 03 2017 09:29

Yeah it's defintiely real good on Stealth Suits and will probably my standard load out for them. Not sure what to put on the Fusion Blaster Stealth Suit though...maybe a Shield Gen. :P

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boomwolf
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#44 » Jun 03 2017 11:00

Panzer wrote:
boomwolf wrote:Oh well, the ATS is still horribly underpriced even without silly melee applications

Not really. It costs a whole weapon slot (which is I admit not an issue on the Cold Star). In almost every case an additional weapon is better than ATS.


It only costs a weapon slot for the crisis and the commander, who are basically the same unit.

Broadside, riptide, stormsurge, coldstar and ghostkeel-are all not wasting a gun slot, and its silly undercosted for them.

For stealth suits it also does not cost a weapon, but its not nearly as efficient, actually not sure I would want it at all on it.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#45 » Jun 03 2017 10:50

The key is that it takes a good number of shots at high accuracy or a LOT of shots at medium/low accuracy AND not having to replace a weapon slot to obtain ATS. Fortunately (and unfurtunately, respectively), the Coldstar fits both criteria.

Slots are quite precious these days, and the only one I don't see much use for yet would be Multi-trackers...

I personally think it is unlikely that the enemy has enough sniper shots available to actually take down a 5-6 wound 3+ armor model that can pass off wounds to nearby drones... So the Shield Generator and the Stims, while powerful defensive tools, seem somewhat unnecessary.

I happen to think that Drone firepower has a lot of potential, and a commander who likes his HQ's and costly battlesuits to stick around and/or continue operating at maximum efficiency will want a good quantity of Gun Drones around.

One Drone Controller nearby, and a Gun Drone squad's firepower (already not that bad - 4/3 hits at S5/0/1) increases by 50% (to 2 hits), and all that for only a small number of points on an 8" Fly T4 4+ chassis, and an small point piece of wargear on a nearby suit.

The Cold Star seems like it would be excellent for convincing our undoubtedly ominous flocks of frisbees into unleashing horrifying fusillades of fire. His near uniquely fast movement (and ability to still shoot extremely well even after using that movement) lets him strengthen bastions of Drone support and lay down some decent suppressive fire.

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deathboon
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#46 » Jun 04 2017 01:19

Unusualsuspect wrote:The key is that it takes a good number of shots at high accuracy or a LOT of shots at medium/low accuracy AND not having to replace a weapon slot to obtain ATS. Fortunately (and unfurtunately, respectively), the Coldstar fits both criteria.

Slots are quite precious these days, and the only one I don't see much use for yet would be Multi-trackers...

I personally think it is unlikely that the enemy has enough sniper shots available to actually take down a 5-6 wound 3+ armor model that can pass off wounds to nearby drones... So the Shield Generator and the Stims, while powerful defensive tools, seem somewhat unnecessary.

I happen to think that Drone firepower has a lot of potential, and a commander who likes his HQ's and costly battlesuits to stick around and/or continue operating at maximum efficiency will want a good quantity of Gun Drones around.

One Drone Controller nearby, and a Gun Drone squad's firepower (already not that bad - 4/3 hits at S5/0/1) increases by 50% (to 2 hits), and all that for only a small number of points on an 8" Fly T4 4+ chassis, and an small point piece of wargear on a nearby suit.

The Cold Star seems like it would be excellent for convincing our undoubtedly ominous flocks of frisbees into unleashing horrifying fusillades of fire. His near uniquely fast movement (and ability to still shoot extremely well even after using that movement) lets him strengthen bastions of Drone support and lay down some decent suppressive fire.

This was my thought as well, I think the lowly gun drone is highly underestimated and will become a major player. Makes me glad I didn't glue the drones heads to their bodies when I built mine.

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Heldericht
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#47 » Jun 08 2017 10:49

Unusualsuspect wrote:The key is that it takes a good number of shots at high accuracy or a LOT of shots at medium/low accuracy AND not having to replace a weapon slot to obtain ATS. Fortunately (and unfurtunately, respectively), the Coldstar fits both criteria.

Slots are quite precious these days, and the only one I don't see much use for yet would be Multi-trackers...

I personally think it is unlikely that the enemy has enough sniper shots available to actually take down a 5-6 wound 3+ armor model that can pass off wounds to nearby drones... So the Shield Generator and the Stims, while powerful defensive tools, seem somewhat unnecessary.

I happen to think that Drone firepower has a lot of potential, and a commander who likes his HQ's and costly battlesuits to stick around and/or continue operating at maximum efficiency will want a good quantity of Gun Drones around.

One Drone Controller nearby, and a Gun Drone squad's firepower (already not that bad - 4/3 hits at S5/0/1) increases by 50% (to 2 hits), and all that for only a small number of points on an 8" Fly T4 4+ chassis, and an small point piece of wargear on a nearby suit.

The Cold Star seems like it would be excellent for convincing our undoubtedly ominous flocks of frisbees into unleashing horrifying fusillades of fire. His near uniquely fast movement (and ability to still shoot extremely well even after using that movement) lets him strengthen bastions of Drone support and lay down some decent suppressive fire.



ATS is very good and should be included. But along with that the Shield Generator is an absolute necessity for the Coldstar.

You cannot pass off wounds when you are in their backlines or on a flank with mont'ka, 40" away from your drones.

You NEED to ensure the commander is self sufficient.

Think of Coldstars as spec ops units. They do not have a specialized role but they are amazing at doing precise strikes and crippling the enemy in areas where traditional forces cannot go. With all the rend weapons out there, you need to ensure you atleast can count on that 4+ save. Otherwise there isnt much point to bringing coldstars. Just bring regular commanders and sit back with missile pods.

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#48 » Jun 08 2017 11:51

a 4+ invulnerable save (or 6+ Stim save, for that matter) will not save a Commander, Coldstar or otherwise, that isn't protected either by intervening troops or nearby Drones (preferrably both).

I don't see him surviving long, even with both defensive upgrades, against any sort of determined anti medium infantry and anti-tank weaponry aimed his way.

He can, however, hop from flank to flank on a full board at will and reinforce whichever flank needs him the most. Put a Drone Controller on him, and he can replace a lost Drone Controller's role (and still put out serious ATS firepower). Put an Early Warning Override on him, and you can also provide an extra bubble of "dangerous-to-deepstrike-into" territory.

I suppose games will have to tell if what seems to be less than reasonably viable in my mind is the fact of the matter on the table. I would be glad to be wrong that the Coldstar with a Shield Generator can really rely on his own defenses as he hops around. Always did like the look of Shield Generators... =P

knute
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#49 » Jun 08 2017 12:22

Unusualsuspect wrote:a 4+ invulnerable save (or 6+ Stim save, for that matter) will not save a Commander, Coldstar or otherwise, that isn't protected either by intervening troops or nearby Drones (preferrably both).

I don't see him surviving long, even with both defensive upgrades, against any sort of determined anti medium infantry and anti-tank weaponry aimed his way.

He can, however, hop from flank to flank on a full board at will and reinforce whichever flank needs him the most. Put a Drone Controller on him, and he can replace a lost Drone Controller's role (and still put out serious ATS firepower). Put an Early Warning Override on him, and you can also provide an extra bubble of "dangerous-to-deepstrike-into" territory.

I suppose games will have to tell if what seems to be less than reasonably viable in my mind is the fact of the matter on the table. I would be glad to be wrong that the Coldstar with a Shield Generator can really rely on his own defenses as he hops around. Always did like the look of Shield Generators... =P


I think Coldstar will be a good choice to support flanking maneuvers from deepstriking vespids and crisis suits and from stealthsuits operating forward of the main army. I think ATS is mandatory on him since he doesn't have a huge amount of firepower, but I'm uncertain as to the shield generator. If you check out other factions, you find that 4+ on invulnerability saves is mostly as good as it gets, outside of stormshield terminators and major characters. On the other hand, so long as there are nearby units closer to the enemy than he is, he can't be targeted. This could open up the hardpoint slot for a Target Lock, removing any reason to not advance up to 40" every single turn. I will admit that this isn't a huge deal since he's BS 2+, but it's definitely an option. Overall, the Shield Generator is probably the correct pick, but if you don't have any Markerlight support the Target Lock could also work.

FrogPrince
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#50 » Jun 08 2017 01:23

I'm really interested in this thread as I was wanting to create a highly mobile, quick attack themed army, without Fire Warriors.

My plan was to replace the usual 2 Strike Teams with 2 pairs of Piranhas (BC) and then use the Cold Star Commander in place of the usual Breachers.

I was thinking this would give good fire power output, and volume, along with high mobility across the table. The Cold Star seems to have the range of movement to be able to support any unit that needs it quickly.

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nic
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#51 » Jun 08 2017 01:39

Unusualsuspect wrote:
The Cold Star seems like it would be excellent for convincing our undoubtedly ominous flocks of frisbees into unleashing horrifying fusillades of fire. His near uniquely fast movement (and ability to still shoot extremely well even after using that movement) lets him strengthen bastions of Drone support and lay down some decent suppressive fire.


I tried this in a 25-power small game today and this combo chews through infantry really well. Meanwhile the commander can jet off at any time to grab an objective, pick a good shooting angle or just score Linebreaker.

I am really liking some of our faster units (Kroot Hounds, Vespid) so I think I can usually position a screening unit to protect the Coldstar when it goes mobile. That means I can load the suit with ATS + Drone Controller which feels like the optimum loadout at this early stage of list development.

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Iron-Fist
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#52 » Jun 08 2017 03:42

Unusualsuspect wrote:a 4+ invulnerable save (or 6+ Stim save, for that matter) will not save a Commander, Coldstar or otherwise, that isn't protected either by intervening troops or nearby Drones (preferrably both).

I don't see him surviving long, even with both defensive upgrades, against any sort of determined anti medium infantry and anti-tank weaponry aimed his way.

He can, however, hop from flank to flank on a full board at will and reinforce whichever flank needs him the most. Put a Drone Controller on him, and he can replace a lost Drone Controller's role (and still put out serious ATS firepower). Put an Early Warning Override on him, and you can also provide an extra bubble of "dangerous-to-deepstrike-into" territory.

I suppose games will have to tell if what seems to be less than reasonably viable in my mind is the fact of the matter on the table. I would be glad to be wrong that the Coldstar with a Shield Generator can really rely on his own defenses as he hops around. Always did like the look of Shield Generators... =P


It takes 11 guard lascannons to kill a commander with a shield generator. It takes 13 to kill a land raider. They are tough, and honestly invul saves are so valuable this edition it would be a shame to leave such a cheap one at home.
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The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

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Heldericht
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#53 » Jun 08 2017 04:12

Iron-Fist wrote:
Unusualsuspect wrote:a 4+ invulnerable save (or 6+ Stim save, for that matter) will not save a Commander, Coldstar or otherwise, that isn't protected either by intervening troops or nearby Drones (preferrably both).

I don't see him surviving long, even with both defensive upgrades, against any sort of determined anti medium infantry and anti-tank weaponry aimed his way.

He can, however, hop from flank to flank on a full board at will and reinforce whichever flank needs him the most. Put a Drone Controller on him, and he can replace a lost Drone Controller's role (and still put out serious ATS firepower). Put an Early Warning Override on him, and you can also provide an extra bubble of "dangerous-to-deepstrike-into" territory.

I suppose games will have to tell if what seems to be less than reasonably viable in my mind is the fact of the matter on the table. I would be glad to be wrong that the Coldstar with a Shield Generator can really rely on his own defenses as he hops around. Always did like the look of Shield Generators... =P


It takes 11 guard lascannons to kill a commander with a shield generator. It takes 13 to kill a land raider. They are tough, and honestly invul saves are so valuable this edition it would be a shame to leave such a cheap one at home.


Exactly. Shield generator is a must.

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boomwolf
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Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#54 » Jun 08 2017 04:20

Iron-Fist wrote:
Unusualsuspect wrote:a 4+ invulnerable save (or 6+ Stim save, for that matter) will not save a Commander, Coldstar or otherwise, that isn't protected either by intervening troops or nearby Drones (preferrably both).

I don't see him surviving long, even with both defensive upgrades, against any sort of determined anti medium infantry and anti-tank weaponry aimed his way.

He can, however, hop from flank to flank on a full board at will and reinforce whichever flank needs him the most. Put a Drone Controller on him, and he can replace a lost Drone Controller's role (and still put out serious ATS firepower). Put an Early Warning Override on him, and you can also provide an extra bubble of "dangerous-to-deepstrike-into" territory.

I suppose games will have to tell if what seems to be less than reasonably viable in my mind is the fact of the matter on the table. I would be glad to be wrong that the Coldstar with a Shield Generator can really rely on his own defenses as he hops around. Always did like the look of Shield Generators... =P


It takes 11 guard lascannons to kill a commander with a shield generator. It takes 13 to kill a land raider. They are tough, and honestly invul saves are so valuable this edition it would be a shame to leave such a cheap one at home.



Question is, why arre you using a lascannon as your point of comparison, and not a heavy bolter?

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