Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
User avatar
Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 322

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#55 » Jun 08 2017 04:33

Heavy bolter has a sweet spot vs the commander. In the case of a HB, stims would be superior and push the number of shots to kill from 24 to 29 (~20%).
Augmented Puretide Council
The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 89

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#56 » Jun 09 2017 01:55

So which two should we pick of ATS, Drone Controller and Shield Generator then.
A combo I'm thinking of ATM is
A squad of Stealthsuits, with homing beacon
A Crisis squad with maxed out drones
A Coldstar
At the start of the second turn, deepstrike first the stealthsuits 9" away from your preferred target, place the homing beacon, then place the crisis suits. The Coldstar moves up to be within 3" of the drones and provides supporting fire.
Wouls it work?

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#57 » Jun 09 2017 01:59

Watcher on the wall wrote:So which two should we pick of ATS, Drone Controller and Shield Generator then.
A combo I'm thinking of ATM is
A squad of Stealthsuits, with homing beacon
A Crisis squad with maxed out drones
A Coldstar
At the start of the second turn, deepstrike first the stealthsuits 9" away from your preferred target, place the homing beacon, then place the crisis suits. The Coldstar moves up to be within 3" of the drones and provides supporting fire.
Wouls it work?

Depends on your playstyle and how well you think you can protect the Coldstar without a Shield Gen. I for one like him to act more or less independent so I will for sure go for ATS+Shield Gen.

User avatar
boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#58 » Jun 09 2017 02:57

The ATS is mandatory for him to actually cause meaningful damage.
The other system, I'd opt for something defensive, but i'm not sure if shield gen or stims. depends on your local meta I'd guess (lots of big guns, take shields. lots of small arms, take stims)

User avatar
Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 322

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#59 » Jun 09 2017 01:38

Watcher on the wall wrote:So which two should we pick of ATS, Drone Controller and Shield Generator then.
A combo I'm thinking of ATM is
A squad of Stealthsuits, with homing beacon
A Crisis squad with maxed out drones
A Coldstar
At the start of the second turn, deepstrike first the stealthsuits 9" away from your preferred target, place the homing beacon, then place the crisis suits. The Coldstar moves up to be within 3" of the drones and provides supporting fire.
Wouls it work?


Stealth Suits can't deep strike afaik, only infiltrate. Can be reliable if you somehow minimize # of units dropping in to guarantee first turn.
Augmented Puretide Council
The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 89

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#60 » Jun 10 2017 02:46

Yeah it does depend on a smaller unit count. I tried it out yesterday and while the concept works (and formed a very nice Kauyon bait ) it doesn't do as much damage as I'd hoped - aiming for a smaller section of the enemy army seems sensible.

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 44

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#61 » Jun 13 2017 02:25

I read a lot of pages here at tactiva. Even the 170+ one with the mostly negative reactions to 8th list.
Then i read this thread and felt pumped and promptly went out n got two comanders. I needed them anyways on account i had zero. i plan to magnatize them but its my hope to use them as Coldstars

As silly as it sounds. I (work midnight) i was up all morning after reading this thread just buzzing with excitement. I felt like this thread "gets it". Maybe not 9 coldstars. But certainly embracing what weve been given. Speed.

In a meta that will see first turn charges as a thing Its obviously not good for the tau but its also very freeing. Almost all of us fly.

So lets fly, lets fly Right at them ,over and past them. make them stay still or pull themselves apart trying to figure out where the fight actually is. When they assault let it be backwards because they moved to fast n left something to harrase in the rear. use setups to our advantage. Never stop drawing them into bad positions with targets or objective. If they don't take the bait n stay together, Great then we get what we want. A kite shooting war with board control

Be free. Fly free. Fly fast.

Coldstars the new monat?

User avatar
Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 322

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#62 » Jun 13 2017 11:36

I am really glad you like the ideas here so much! ATT has always been an inspiring place
Augmented Puretide Council
The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

User avatar
Vector Strike
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 955

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#63 » Jun 13 2017 12:25

Coldstars aren't the new Monat because their weapon selection is fixed. A Commander with 4x Fusion Blasters will delete many stuff in one go. He's the new Monat

User avatar
Heldericht
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#64 » Jun 13 2017 01:22

Vector Strike wrote:Coldstars aren't the new Monat because their weapon selection is fixed. A Commander with 4x Fusion Blasters will delete many stuff in one go. He's the new Monat


Not quite. A fusion commander has a very specific role on the drop and then is kinda stuck in the area it landed.

The whole point of being a Monat suit is being self sufficient and versatile. The huge mobility and weapons that can deal with anything from hordes to tanks, as well as the ability to take support systems to make it more durable, is what makes it a monat.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#65 » Jun 13 2017 01:32

Heldericht wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:Coldstars aren't the new Monat because their weapon selection is fixed. A Commander with 4x Fusion Blasters will delete many stuff in one go. He's the new Monat


Not quite. A fusion commander has a very specific role on the drop and then is kinda stuck in the area it landed.

Not really.
The whole point of a Monat was that he was cheap enough to sacrifice/not having to care about its survival, small enough a unit for enemies to forget about and/or strong on its own to do moderate/high damage (double Flamer Monat, double FB Monat and double MP Monat as most common examples).
At least two of those points should apply for a Suit to fulfill the role of a Monat as we used to do in 7th.

That means the Coldstar (Doesn't do super huge damage so the enemy probably doesn't see it as high priority target, but does moderate damage wherever needed. Plus isn't that expensive compared to other Suits I guess) as well as the Quad Fusion Blaster Commander (160p is still rather cheap and it does a ton of damage) could be considered Monat the way we used them in 7th.

If we go just by a fluff point of view, then Monat are dead though since Commander don't really count and Crisis can't form a single model unit anymore. ;)

User avatar
Heldericht
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#66 » Jun 13 2017 02:31

Panzer wrote:Not really.
The whole point of a Monat was that he was cheap enough to sacrifice/not having to care about its survival, small enough a unit for enemies to forget about and/or strong on its own to do moderate/high damage (double Flamer Monat, double FB Monat and double MP Monat as most common examples).


Even if we go by that logic, Coldstar commanders with shield gen and ats are cheaper than 4x fusion commanders.

Doesn't really matter how people define it. My point was, the solo operative role is best fulfilled by a Coldstar as it is self sufficient. Fusion commander by himself on the drop is not going to accomplish much without significant support, and again will be stuck in that one area.

I'm thinking of Monats for the new edition in terms of being more true to the fluff as opposed to suicide suits that fulfill the requirements of a CAD.

But yeah, going to be running 5 of them so I guess the solo part doesn't apply much in my case either...

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#67 » Jun 13 2017 03:08

I disagree. A quad Fusion Commander will do plenty on his own already.

Also if it's about fluff then Commander are still no Monats. Battlesuit pilots who lost the rest of their bonded brothers and decided to fight on their own because they can't work in another team anymore are Monats. Commander never work in a team with their bonded brothers once they get promoted.
If you ignore that part of the fluff, then every Commander is a Monat since he always acts on his own. ;)

And about the "solo operative role". I'm certain that any Commander loadout that's not exactly about buffing a unit can do that rather well. And if we extend that to non-suit units then there's also the Piranha who isn't much different than a lightweight Crisis statwise. ^^

User avatar
Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 322

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#68 » Jun 13 2017 04:00

Oh piranha. With the huge point increase due to fusion blasters and paying for their drones they are another unit relegated to the "meh" pile.... I'll miss them dearly.
Augmented Puretide Council
The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

User avatar
Heldericht
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#69 » Jun 13 2017 05:41

Panzer wrote:I disagree. A quad Fusion Commander will do plenty on his own already.

Also if it's about fluff then Commander are still no Monats. Battlesuit pilots who lost the rest of their bonded brothers and decided to fight on their own because they can't work in another team anymore are Monats. Commander never work in a team with their bonded brothers once they get promoted.
If you ignore that part of the fluff, then every Commander is a Monat since he always acts on his own. ;)

And about the "solo operative role". I'm certain that any Commander loadout that's not exactly about buffing a unit can do that rather well. And if we extend that to non-suit units then there's also the Piranha who isn't much different than a lightweight Crisis statwise. ^^


It's not just about deepstriking down. The other key part is mobility. Once down the commander is relatively static compared to coldstar, ESPECIALLY with 18" guns.

Like I said, you can define it however you want. To me the Coldstar epitomizes the role.

User avatar
Iron-Fist
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 322

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#70 » Jun 13 2017 06:42

The limited "one hit KO" power of the Coldstar in my mind makes them most effective in groups. Each coldstar kills around 3 marines a turn, 3-4 of them will very reliably bring down a squad (especially when ypu include charges). They cut much bigger swathes through light infantry but those also tend to be more numerous.

A critical mass allows very effective "run and gun" tactics:
1) picking a unit on the flank
2) moving to the far side of that unit away from all the other elements of the army
3) eliminating it
4) moving to another edge of the formation
These kind of tactics limit exposure to enemy return fire and stretch the enemy out as they chase you, making it even easier to isolate individual elements.

Further, multiple coldstars working together allows you to move hurt ones to the rear and keep their firepower going much longer.
Augmented Puretide Council
The Tau Deathstar 2015: 8-1

User avatar
gmaleron
Shas
Posts: 213

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#71 » Jun 13 2017 08:23

Raverrn wrote:I believe he's talking about this section:
Image
It's a damn good catch - almost every other weapon has a '0' AP instead.



Out of curiosity where in the book is this under? Id like to know beforehand just in case this comes up again with any other armies, thanks!

Also this is some great Tactica, already planning on testing this out Friday!

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3159

Re: Rising Star: Cold Star Commander In 8th Edition

Post#72 » Jun 13 2017 11:13

Heldericht wrote:
Panzer wrote:I disagree. A quad Fusion Commander will do plenty on his own already.

Also if it's about fluff then Commander are still no Monats. Battlesuit pilots who lost the rest of their bonded brothers and decided to fight on their own because they can't work in another team anymore are Monats. Commander never work in a team with their bonded brothers once they get promoted.
If you ignore that part of the fluff, then every Commander is a Monat since he always acts on his own. ;)

And about the "solo operative role". I'm certain that any Commander loadout that's not exactly about buffing a unit can do that rather well. And if we extend that to non-suit units then there's also the Piranha who isn't much different than a lightweight Crisis statwise. ^^


It's not just about deepstriking down. The other key part is mobility. Once down the commander is relatively static compared to coldstar, ESPECIALLY with 18" guns.

Like I said, you can define it however you want. To me the Coldstar epitomizes the role.

Lol really now? The most commonly used Monat in 7th was the double Flamer Crisis and the double Fusion Blaster Crisis. Both had a mobility of 6+2d6 inch and a weapon range of ~8"-18". That's not much different than how it is now (you advance 8+d6" with flamer and can't get tied up in melee even).

I get that you think the Coldstar is super awesome. So do I. But saying the other are no Monat when judged by pure playstyle is just wrong lol

Return to “Tau Tactics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest