8th edition crisis suits

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Maapoezdae
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#127 » Aug 06 2017 09:18

Arka0415 wrote:
Maapoezdae wrote:Hi all,

After reading this forum, watching batreps, and sitting for literal hours trying to work out the best crisis/commander combos for me, I came up with this. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily the absolute best, but I think (hopefully) that it's in some way viable (haven't had a chance to playtest it yet).

1x Commander:
2x CIB
2x Fusion

Origionally I had my commander as a mixed-bag, but I soon realised that this was waisting it's potential, and that I needed to focus on a role more. I decided to make him anti-vehicle/anti-high toughness, as I didn't have much of that in my army, however the CIBs offer the non-overcharged shots for a decent shot at more massed targets.

CRISIS TEAM:
Shas'ui - 2xCIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'ui - 2x CIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'vre - 2x Fusion, 1x Drone Controller
4-6x Gun Drones

I felt that this could combat most armies relatively well when manta striking. Please give me any recommendations, as I want to improve before my first 8th Ed game in shop (have played a little against relatives, but their armies are pretty poor as they don't care about meta).

Thanks :D


Of course, in previous editions it was a lot of fun to find weapon combinations that worked well for XV8s. Now we can split fire on any target(s) we like, so you'd think we'd want to have different weapons to engage different targets. However, the short range on our effective guns means that, while you can bring multiple different weapon types, it'll usually be hard to get in range of all the different targets you want to engage. Instead, consider bringing all of one weapon type (plus a few Flamers for overwatch if you like) and hunt down certain types of targets. Here are some builds that have been popular on ATT:

Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (154)
Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)

3x XV8s w/ 9x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 6x Gun Drones (336)
3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x Advanced Targeting Systems; 6x Gun Drones (306)
3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers, 6x Gun Drones (255)
3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)
3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)


(Sorry for long quote :D) I totally agree that the most optimal use for commander is 4x Fusion, but I currently play against hordes more often than not, so I took the CIBs for slightly better all-round usage. With the crisis, I didnt have enough of any gun to proxy 6 of the same gun, so I went with a set of fusions, but if it's much worse overall, I'll make them all CIB. I personally think that the dakka from the DC is very useful, but im not so sold on the flamers, so will probably change them. Thanks for the tips, and yeah these builds seem very popular across the forums.

P.S: Would you say that my original build is necessarily bad as opposed to just not optimised? Thanks :)
:fear: Space commies, but convincing :fear:

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Quorgyle
Shas'Saal
Posts: 57

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#128 » Aug 06 2017 11:36

Also you shouldn't take the Drone Controller on the Shas'vre....Drones will/should die before the suits so that the Drone Controller will be useless. Just put it on a normal guy.

My current list includes 2x Commander, each with 4x Fusion Blaster (still not sure should I use 2x Shield or 2x Marker Drones with them)

Also I'm using 2 teams of Crisis Suits, 3 per unit, 8 CIB's and 1 Drone Controller (6 Gun Drones with each team).

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1289

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#129 » Aug 07 2017 03:57

Quorgyle wrote:Also you shouldn't take the Drone Controller on the Shas'vre....Drones will/should die before the suits so that the Drone Controller will be useless. Just put it on a normal guy.

My current list includes 2x Commander, each with 4x Fusion Blaster (still not sure should I use 2x Shield or 2x Marker Drones with them)

Also I'm using 2 teams of Crisis Suits, 3 per unit, 8 CIB's and 1 Drone Controller (6 Gun Drones with each team).

That's a really good point about the Drone Controller. Since we can choose the order models die in, establishing an 'optimum death order' for squads will be important. Definitely, Drone Controller on a Shas'ui!

Also, I'd go with Shield Drones. Keeping that 4x Fusion Blaster Commander alive is a top priority- just one turn of shooting is amazing, but if you can get two... absolutely phenomenal.

Maapoezdae wrote:P.S: Would you say that my original build is necessarily bad as opposed to just not optimised? Thanks :)

That's a good question. It's not optimized, but I'd say it's only bad (sorry!) at 1500 points and up. If you're playing small games, then versatility is important. For example, mixing two different weapon types in 750-point and 1000-point games can be good. However, in large games (1500, 2000 points usually) then you have the points to spare to make more specialized squads... and maybe even redundant squads. Quorgyle is using redundant Commanders and redundant XV8s- this is a great way to keep the firepower you need on the field!

Also, one more thing- if you bring a Drone Controller, always bring 6 Gun Drones too. You're paying points for a buff, so get all the use out of it that you can!

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Maapoezdae
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#130 » Aug 07 2017 03:10

Arka0415 wrote:
Quorgyle wrote:Also you shouldn't take the Drone Controller on the Shas'vre....Drones will/should die before the suits so that the Drone Controller will be useless. Just put it on a normal guy.

My current list includes 2x Commander, each with 4x Fusion Blaster (still not sure should I use 2x Shield or 2x Marker Drones with them)

Also I'm using 2 teams of Crisis Suits, 3 per unit, 8 CIB's and 1 Drone Controller (6 Gun Drones with each team).

That's a really good point about the Drone Controller. Since we can choose the order models die in, establishing an 'optimum death order' for squads will be important. Definitely, Drone Controller on a Shas'ui!

Also, I'd go with Shield Drones. Keeping that 4x Fusion Blaster Commander alive is a top priority- just one turn of shooting is amazing, but if you can get two... absolutely phenomenal.

That's a good question. It's not optimized, but I'd say it's only bad (sorry!) at 1500 points and up. If you're playing small games, then versatility is important. For example, mixing two different weapon types in 750-point and 1000-point games can be good. However, in large games (1500, 2000 points usually) then you have the points to spare to make more specialized squads... and maybe even redundant squads. Quorgyle is using redundant Commanders and redundant XV8s- this is a great way to keep the firepower you need on the field!

Also, one more thing- if you bring a Drone Controller, always bring 6 Gun Drones too. You're paying points for a buff, so get all the use out of it that you can!


Thanks Arka and Quorgyle, good stuff to know :D. I usually play 1000 or less as I don't attend regular gaming sessions and my regular opponents prefer quick matches. I'll definitely change it anyway. I've just got to figure out if i've got enough of any weapon to proxy 8 CIBs...
:fear: Space commies, but convincing :fear:

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Arka0415
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Posts: 1289

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#131 » Aug 07 2017 06:37

Maapoezdae wrote:Thanks Arka and Quorgyle, good stuff to know :D. I usually play 1000 or less as I don't attend regular gaming sessions and my regular opponents prefer quick matches. I'll definitely change it anyway. I've just got to figure out if i've got enough of any weapon to proxy 8 CIBs...


Sounds good! If you're playing small games though, those XV8s will have a much more important role. Do you mind posting what models you usually bring, so we can think about what role the XV8s should fill?

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Maapoezdae
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#132 » Aug 08 2017 04:02

Arka0415 wrote:
Maapoezdae wrote:Thanks Arka and Quorgyle, good stuff to know :D. I usually play 1000 or less as I don't attend regular gaming sessions and my regular opponents prefer quick matches. I'll definitely change it anyway. I've just got to figure out if i've got enough of any weapon to proxy 8 CIBs...


Sounds good! If you're playing small games though, those XV8s will have a much more important role. Do you mind posting what models you usually bring, so we can think about what role the XV8s should fill?


Sure, if you wouldn't mind wasting the time on me :D. Also, some of the points are off the top of my head, so correct me if i'm wrong.

(DISCLAMER) I've recently changed a lot around for 8th, so the list might not seem very constructed...

(All Battalion detachments)
VS Swarm
TOTAL POINTS = 998
--HQ--
Commander w/3x Flamer & ATS (111)
Cadre Fireblade w/Markerlight (45)

--Troops--
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)

--Elites--
3x Crisis, 2x 3x Flamers, 1x 2x Flamers & Drone controller, 6x Gun Drones (251)
1x Ghostkeel w/ CIR + 2x Burst Cannon + EWO + 2x Stealth Drones (159)

--Heavy Support--
1x Broadside w/High-Yield Missile Pods + SMS + EWO (210)

--Fast Attack--
6x Tactical Drones (Marker) (60)

VS Unknown
TOTAL PTS = 999
--HQ--
Commander w/ 2x CIB & 2xFusion (154)
1x Cadre Fireblade w/Markerlight (45)

--Troops-
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
5x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)

--Elites--
3x Crisis Suits, 2x 3CIB, 1x 2CIB + 1x DC, 6x Gun Drones (323)
3x Stealth Suits, w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Shas'vre w/Fusion blaster + Homing Beacon (109)

--Heavy Support--
1x Broadside w/High-Yield Missile Pods + SMS + EWO (210)

--Fast Attack--
N/A (Would have liked Marker Drones - Maybe I should make it a patrol detachment for more freedom?)

VS Heavy (I've never used this one before :D)
TOTAL PTS = 1000
--HQ--
4x Fusion Commander (160)
1x Cadre Fireblade w/Markerlight (45)

--Troops--
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)
6x Strike Team Warriors w/Shas'ui (54)

--Elites--
3x Crisis Suits, 3x 3Fusion, 4x Gun Drones (347)
3x Stealth Suits w/ 2x Burst Cannon, 1x Shas'vre w/ FB + Homing Beacon (109)

--Heavy Support--
Longstrike w/Railgun, SMS (Wanted seeker missles but not enough room) (167)

--Fast Attack--
N/A (Again wanted marker drones but not enough room)

To clarify; I just got my XV8s so have never used them. I just swapped around my lists to implement them, as they seem like a key part of any Tau army, fluff wise at least. I know in general I can't do a lot against flyer-spam; i've never found it to be a problem but then again I know most of my opponent's collections so I know they lack enough flyers. I'm kind of limited to the models I have, so I only use the one commander e.t.c, instead of more effective 2-4 Commanders (although I assume that 3+ Commanders are only in larger matches in general). I've never played very competitively, so forgive me if my lists are utter trash; but they work for me in my infrequent games. Bear in mind that the second two are completely theoretical: I've only ever used the first, and a 750pts version of it, in 8th.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for bearing with me Arka :D

NOTE: Just realised that Fire Warriors are 8pts not 9, and marker drones are 13 not 10. I'll add these changes to the lists later (hopefully) but bear that in mind, as my lists may be over/under 1000pts now.
Last edited by Maapoezdae on Aug 09 2017 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1289

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#133 » Aug 08 2017 08:16

Looks like you've put a lot of work into these! First off, I'll just mention- making a "take-all-comers" list might be more fair, but it depends on your local meta. For example, in my area people can get pretty testy when players tailor or design their lists against other players' armies. Just pointing that out but your meta might be different!

Anyway, looking at the "unknown" list, that's definitely your best/most balanced list; the XV8s play a fantastic role as your mid-range versatile damage dealer. In fact, they play that role so well that you probably don't need the Commander's CIBs or even the Broadside entirely! This is what we mean by "defining a role". For high-Strengh medium-AP firepower, those XV8s are more than enough! To better define roles for your army, consider giving the Commander 4x Fusion Blasters and replacing the Broadside with something else!

One final piece of advice: Never give a Commander any Flamers! The Commander's main draw is the BS2+, which the Flamers don't take advantage of. XV8s, on the other hand, make great Flamer units, as long as you don't use Manta Strike.

Anyway, if you don't mind, I can give you a little advice on your list! At 1000 points, I wouldn't try to squeeze in 500+ points worth of Battlesuits and a Battalion Detachment. For now, let's use this as your core:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster (101)

That's 760 points and offers some serious anti-elite and anti-tank firepower. A few things we'd like to add would include some screening units for the Fire Warriors, a long-range anti-tank option, and a couple of Markerlights. I don't know what models you have so I'll just add in some 'ideal' stuff.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (92)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster (101)

Not much room to add any screening units, and the Ion Rifles aren't an amazing long-range option, but this should be a dependable list. There's still 5 points of room, so let's add Multi-Trackers to the Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blasters, to reduce their Markerlight dependency. Here's the final list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 2x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster, Multi-Tracker (103)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Fusion Blaster, Multi-Tracker (103)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (92)

Total: 999 - Command Points: 4 (1 Vanguard Detachment)

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#134 » Aug 08 2017 10:26

Maapoezdae wrote:Hi all,

1x Commander:
2x CIB
2x Fusion


CRISIS TEAM:
Shas'ui - 2xCIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'ui - 2x CIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'vre - 2x Fusion, 1x Drone Controller
4-6x Gun Drones




Looks alright to me!

Here are my suggestions:

Take 4 fusions on the commander. He's a true tank hunter that way.
The CIBs are on your crisis team anyway.
I'd also give him 2 drones. Probably shield drones.

As for the crisis team - I like the loadout, but I have a suggestion:
You should think about what the team will look like when it's taken losses. And remember you can choose who stays alive!
If you run two suits with 3x CIB (or 2 CIB, ATS) and one suit with 3x flamer you have the same firepower but have options when you're down to the last man standing.

So if you're up against light vehicles you'd keep the CIBs alive.
If you're in melee with ork boyz you'd keep the triple flamer suit alive for that fall back - shoot - overwatch action.

Always max out drones on crisis teams where possible (so much extra survivability)
Yet I'd say don't bother with the drone control unless you have like 8+ gun/marker drones around (Marker drones aren't bad if you need to overcharge your CIBs).
Remember your drones are ablative wounds and aren't expected to last that long, they might only get one turn of shooting anyway.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 51

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#135 » Aug 09 2017 09:36

This is just my opinion, but I've found that Crisis suits have a valuable use as Drone Delivery Systems with Teeth. By using a homing beacon (or not, depending on how close you want to get) you can drop a team of Crisis suits up in the enemy's face. Each suit has 2 drones apiece so load up on Gun Drones and take a drone controller on at least one of them. 9x2=18 18x4= 72 Str 5 shots at BS 4+. With enough markerlight support you can boost that to 3+ with rerollable ones... of course you're only going to want to do that with something particularly dangerous so more often it'll be 4+ with the rerolls. Often times this will provoke the enemy into attacking the drones afterwards and your Crisis suits can easily pick them off afterwards.

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relasine
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 69

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#136 » Aug 09 2017 11:48

CelticBarbarian wrote:This is just my opinion, but I've found that Crisis suits have a valuable use as Drone Delivery Systems with Teeth. By using a homing beacon (or not, depending on how close you want to get) you can drop a team of Crisis suits up in the enemy's face. Each suit has 2 drones apiece so load up on Gun Drones and take a drone controller on at least one of them. 9x2=18 18x4= 72 Str 5 shots at BS 4+. With enough markerlight support you can boost that to 3+ with rerollable ones... of course you're only going to want to do that with something particularly dangerous so more often it'll be 4+ with the rerolls. Often times this will provoke the enemy into attacking the drones afterwards and your Crisis suits can easily pick them off afterwards.

I have been saying this for two months.

That said, my opinion on this shifted once we had rules for XV9s, which I think largely do the job better unless you really want to run CIB. Fusion Cascades, Double Burst Cannons, and PSRs are all pretty solid, I think.

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