8th edition crisis suits

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Torenyth
Shas'Saal
Posts: 7

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#109 » Jun 23 2017 08:57

I am not sure how ML will play out this edition. You could take bare minimum - like 4 or less, maybe even none - since we have Ethereals and support systems that mimic one ML. If you take more than that but not at least 10 you almost seem to be planning on splitting your fire to use them or are just spending 30ish points to have the option to use a ML over a broader area.

For roughly 80 points we have the equivalent of a psycher that can give a moving heavy weapon +2 to hit, reroll ones, and ignore cover (-1/2 to saves ) on one unit per turn. I could happily take two or maybe three of those in an Eldar list.

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handsomemenace
Shas
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#110 » Jun 23 2017 09:12

Panzer wrote:To your example. Well d'uh if there is an immediate threat of course anybody would focus their shooting on that one. Any army would do that, not just T'au. It's also a mistake from the enemy to present you such a high priority target without giving you more to worry about at the same time.
Especially since he apparently hasn't dealt with your Markerlights yet at that point.


Haha, well yeah, you're absolutely right.

Everyone can focus fire. I'm not even saying we do it the best, I just think that's the best thing that we do.

Perhaps that's a bad example to what I mean. I just think that on the table top, we have the ability to choose a priority target, mark it to heck, and the focus fire it from across the table. We have superior range and our weapons hover around S7. IMO a strong T'au back line is going to feature plenty of Marker Lights and heavy weapons to eliminate threats, and they will do so with unmatched precision.

However, this is way off topic for this thread. Sorry about that.
If missiles can't kill it, it will never die.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3545

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#111 » Jun 23 2017 09:50

handsomemenace wrote:
Panzer wrote:To your example. Well d'uh if there is an immediate threat of course anybody would focus their shooting on that one. Any army would do that, not just T'au. It's also a mistake from the enemy to present you such a high priority target without giving you more to worry about at the same time.
Especially since he apparently hasn't dealt with your Markerlights yet at that point.


Haha, well yeah, you're absolutely right.

Everyone can focus fire. I'm not even saying we do it the best, I just think that's the best thing that we do.

Perhaps that's a bad example to what I mean. I just think that on the table top, we have the ability to choose a priority target, mark it to heck, and the focus fire it from across the table. We have superior range and our weapons hover around S7. IMO a strong T'au back line is going to feature plenty of Marker Lights and heavy weapons to eliminate threats, and they will do so with unmatched precision.

However, this is way off topic for this thread. Sorry about that.

"Unmatched precision" is a good joke considering we will never be able to hit better than on 3+ with our Infantry and Battlesuits. Something many armies do by default. :D

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handsomemenace
Shas
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#112 » Jun 23 2017 10:05

Panzer wrote:"Unmatched precision" is a good joke considering we will never be able to hit better than on 3+ with our Infantry and Battlesuits. Something many armies do by default. :D


Yes, but those other armies have shorter range, don't usually ignore cover, don't allow them to move and fire heavy weapons / advancing with assault weapons, rerolling 1s pretty much by default, and ignoring cover all the same.
If missiles can't kill it, it will never die.

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Kunas Ka
Shas'Saal
Posts: 38

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#113 » Jun 23 2017 02:50

I was one of the people who thought Crisis were way too expensive and would probably be sidelined in my lists for commanders. I have been playing a lot this past 2 weeks against a variety of different opponents, several different Space Marine Factions, Orks, Eldar and Chaos. I have had a complete 360 on crisis. Manta Strike is insane. Absolutely insane. Drop in wherever you want and open up firing.

I tried a few different configurations but so far my favorite has been 5 suits, four of them with 2 Plasma 1 Flamer and the last with 2 flamers and a DC. Drop in with 10 drones and you have a crazy alpha strike. I am still figuring out if I prefer bringing Marker Drones, so they are protected until you need them, or more dakka in the form of gun drones.

The increase to toughness makes a huge difference and the extra wound is very important as well. Flamers have over performed especially since only the most dedicated cc units can kill 5 suits plus their 10 ablative wounds. Call me a believer now. FLAMES FOR THE FLAME GOD!

Supershrew
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#114 » Jun 23 2017 08:01

I am also loving crisis and commanders . I have played a lot of mech and I can't see beyond fusion suits . I managed to kill 3 leman russ's in 2 turns in my last game with 2 commanders and a crisis team . i am playing them all with marker drones to try and get the 5 on the crisis targets as it makes a huge difference to the effectiveness on the alpha strike.

Sniperhavens
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 56

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#115 » Jun 23 2017 09:18

I have been running 2 Commanders with 4 CIB's and a 3 man Crisis team with 3 CIB'S and 6 gun drones. Their ability to soak up damage, land exactly where I need them and take out whatever I point them at is incredible. The only unit that just hasn't done its job for me is the Riptide, He is tough But I think another unit of Crisis suits would serve me better.

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Torenyth
Shas'Saal
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#116 » Jun 23 2017 10:52

Where in 7th Riptides could be our main damage dealers they seem like a distraction/tank and a good place to put a support system that helps others like a drone controller. I am going to try it with a Drone Controller and two shielded missile drones back by a broadside with two missile drones. If they leave it alone all 4 drones will be +1 BS the entire match and probably firing at the same targets lit up by ML as the Broadside and RIptide. Sort of choose your own poison.

Hunt down the mobile commanders/crisis suits who hurt too much to ignore or go for the Riptide/Broadside who are far tankier than thought and also dealing a good amount of pain.

DragonPup
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#117 » Jun 24 2017 12:12

CIB+2 FBs feels like a good all around config for Manta Strikes so long as you aren't dealing with a horde. 5 shots each at a good Strength. Add a Drone Controller on one Suit and those little guys get a lot more dangerous. 6 gun drones with a controller will land 12 shots on average, and cause 8 wounds against T3/4 models. Plus those little buggers can block charge lanes to your Suits really nicely.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1928

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#118 » Jul 01 2017 08:54

Panzer wrote:My go-to loadout for Crisis for now will be:
two with 3xCIB + one with 2xCIB+DC + 6 Gun Drones.
323 points for 24 S7 AP-1 shots and 24 S5 AP0 shots at BS4+. Or if you chose to overcharge the CIBs an average of 16 S8 AP-1 shots with 2 damage each. Lets you wound vehicles on 4s and Marines on 2s.

But I think first I'll try my trusty TL FB+CIB unit a bit though. I didn't magnetize those suits anyway. :D


I know Panzer made this post about a month ago, but I've been thinking about this recently. Sure it's expensive, but pound-for-pound this build pumps out damage like nothing else. For my army I've made the slight change of swapping one Gun Drone for a Marker Drone, but otherwise, I think this squad is going to be the gold standard for XV8 loadouts in our current Index.

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relasine
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#119 » Jul 01 2017 10:13

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:My go-to loadout for Crisis for now will be:
two with 3xCIB + one with 2xCIB+DC + 6 Gun Drones.
323 points for 24 S7 AP-1 shots and 24 S5 AP0 shots at BS4+. Or if you chose to overcharge the CIBs an average of 16 S8 AP-1 shots with 2 damage each. Lets you wound vehicles on 4s and Marines on 2s.

But I think first I'll try my trusty TL FB+CIB unit a bit though. I didn't magnetize those suits anyway. :D


I know Panzer made this post about a month ago, but I've been thinking about this recently. Sure it's expensive, but pound-for-pound this build pumps out damage like nothing else. For my army I've made the slight change of swapping one Gun Drone for a Marker Drone, but otherwise, I think this squad is going to be the gold standard for XV8 loadouts in our current Index.

My original plan was to run Burstsuits with Gun Drones, but I think that XV9 Monats do that job much better, so I'm back to thinking about Crisis Suits in this kind of configuration. The problem is that I'm so apprehensive to put 54 points worth CIBs on a Crisis Suit, when I could get decidedly more efficient results from doing so on a Commander. Maybe a few more months of 8th will change my mind, but I dunno...

Ash87
Shas'Saal
Posts: 43

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#120 » Jul 05 2017 09:00

So, looked at it this weekend, Crisis suites are balanced point wise to Terminators? Would anyone disagree with that?

gualtikhan
Shas
Posts: 20

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#121 » Jul 05 2017 09:55

I'm the only one who is going to play the drone controller on stealth suits in order to don't use those awesome slot on crisis? Also because the stealth seems quiete good on their own, they do a lot of utility such a marker and the homing beacon and your opponent isn't going to shoot at them (if you deploy wisely you can still take wounds on drones).
In my opinion it's better running three or four commander and then a unit of crisis, unless you're playing a lot of markerlight for other reasons, such as a stormsurge. In tha case I would prefer the crisis, who benifits better of those five marker.

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shasocastris
Shas'Vre
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#122 » Jul 05 2017 12:45

Sort of? I was just thinking about the math between a commander and crisis suits regarding markerlights.

At 1 markerlight, a commander goes from hitting 30/36 (5/6) of the time to 35/36 of the time. A crisis suit goes from hitting 6/12 times to 7/12 times. Even with the +1 to hit (five markerlights), a crisis suit is only at a 7/9 chance to hit, which is still less than a commander, a 77.77% chance vs a 83.33% chance to hit respectively.

My biggest problems with Crisis suits is cost. Yesterday, I finally dropped the crisis team I'd been using (3 suits with marker drones) for two commanders. It was awesome. The commanders just get stuff done, especially when backed by a single markerlight from a cadre fireblade or errant shot from a pathfinder.

I do however very much like the idea of a stealth team with a drone controller guiding in a crisis team. That's something worth looking into, especially given that flamers on crisis suits do have a great deal of potential.

Cheers!

gualtikhan
Shas
Posts: 20

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#123 » Jul 05 2017 05:23

Well, I think that with the possibility to get 5 marker I would take the Crisis for a couple of reasons:
First of all, while three Crisis cost a little less than two Commander, they still shoot nearly equally: assuming that the Crisis are equipped with 2 CIB and an ATS each while the Commanders have 3 CIB and an ATS each (I would run eitherway a couple of Commander or XV9 for fusion blaster, by no way I would relay on crisis for that), the Crisis would hit with 14 shoots against the 17,5 of two Commanders. So basically someone can give up those 3,5 shoot (or two and couple of wound to:
-Get some spare point
-Bring more Drone, 6 against the 2+2 of two Commanders, these drone are more valuable than normal drone cause they get to AIP, also only 2+2 Drone would be killed really easily and then say goodbay to those rerolled one if other marker are employed elsewhere, and you don't want to get a mortal wound everytime you shoot (mathematically).
-Deploy only one unit instead of two, if you're going to try an Alphastrike and you want to go first, you may be willing to deploy less units possibile, also, you can deploy less drone on the battlefield doing that. In addition, in the balanced rule it's said that for every unit out of the board you have to have one on it, if you wish to AIP heavily and don't want to spend point on stupid things to keep on board.
-You have three models, more usefull to take Obj and stronger against high damage wepons
-You can give up one ATS for one VT and with all those SM flyer around you are going to want that, also because a lot of units now have the keyword FLY.
-Two Kill Point insted of four, two of which really easy, unless you don't run any Drones with the Commander, but it would be a shame. Aip Drones are awesome.
-They are Elite choice instead of HQ, if you need another Elite choice to get +1 CP.
Now, think at all these point but keeping in mind six Crisis and four Commanders, all these benefits are cumulative.
Of course there are downside to this, you still have to bring a lot of marker (at least 10 marker drone) and however the Commanders have simply more brutal firepower. At everyone his choice, sorry for my poor English.
Cheers

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 821

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#124 » Jul 06 2017 12:01

The pros and cons of Crisis Suits vs Commanders is more nuanced really. If you look strictly at point costs you will see you need two commanders to equal one crisis squad in terms of shooting capacity and wounds (thereabout). The Commander is more accurate, but the Crisis Team has more shots.

Point costs can be debated. It's everything else that becomes the topic to discuss.

Force Org Slots: So if you wanted to equal the wounds and capacity (number of possible shots), you would need two commanders. This means that you're taking up HQ slots that might force you to take other detachments. This also means that your army style might need to work around this. If you were going to have a gunline army, or use the Master of War ability on your back field, you would have to invest in another Commander.

Easier to Kill (relatively): The Commander also becomes a bigger target, and depending on who is shooting, easier to take down. High damage weapon that ignore armor will make the Commander melt. Characters are meant to hide behind models to help extend their life expectancy.

Taking and Holding Objectives: The Commander, being a single model, is not the best unit for trying to contest an objective. In 8th, you hold an objective if you have more MODELS within 3in of the objective than your opponent. So if your Commander is sitting on an objective marker held by two guardsmen, and he is unable to kill them in combat, your opponent controls it.

Potential Lack of Deepstrike Option: As mentioned earlier, you need two commanders to equal or come close to matching the capacity (number of possible shots) that a crisis team can shoot. This means that you have to have two commanders, which also means that deepstriking them takes up two slots of your "half your army" rule. This limits your tactical options.

These are the kind of things you have to consider. It is important to understand your odds with weapons and how good they are on models. That is what helps you make the right choice when kitting out, and attacking with those units.

However, it is equally important to consider how those models will work on the battlefield. In that regard, the Crisis Suit will likely be better suited overall than the Commander would.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Maapoezdae
Shas
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Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#125 » Aug 05 2017 04:20

Hi all,

After reading this forum, watching batreps, and sitting for literal hours trying to work out the best crisis/commander combos for me, I came up with this. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily the absolute best, but I think (hopefully) that it's in some way viable (haven't had a chance to playtest it yet).

1x Commander:
2x CIB
2x Fusion

Origionally I had my commander as a mixed-bag, but I soon realised that this was waisting it's potential, and that I needed to focus on a role more. I decided to make him anti-vehicle/anti-high toughness, as I didn't have much of that in my army, however the CIBs offer the non-overcharged shots for a decent shot at more massed targets.

CRISIS TEAM:
Shas'ui - 2xCIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'ui - 2x CIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'vre - 2x Fusion, 1x Drone Controller
4-6x Gun Drones

I felt that this could combat most armies relatively well when manta striking. Please give me any recommendations, as I want to improve before my first 8th Ed game in shop (have played a little against relatives, but their armies are pretty poor as they don't care about meta).

Thanks :D
:fear: Space commies, but convincing :fear:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1928

Re: 8th edition crisis suits

Post#126 » Aug 06 2017 05:43

Maapoezdae wrote:Hi all,

After reading this forum, watching batreps, and sitting for literal hours trying to work out the best crisis/commander combos for me, I came up with this. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily the absolute best, but I think (hopefully) that it's in some way viable (haven't had a chance to playtest it yet).

1x Commander:
2x CIB
2x Fusion

Origionally I had my commander as a mixed-bag, but I soon realised that this was waisting it's potential, and that I needed to focus on a role more. I decided to make him anti-vehicle/anti-high toughness, as I didn't have much of that in my army, however the CIBs offer the non-overcharged shots for a decent shot at more massed targets.

CRISIS TEAM:
Shas'ui - 2xCIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'ui - 2x CIB, 1xFlamer
Shas'vre - 2x Fusion, 1x Drone Controller
4-6x Gun Drones

I felt that this could combat most armies relatively well when manta striking. Please give me any recommendations, as I want to improve before my first 8th Ed game in shop (have played a little against relatives, but their armies are pretty poor as they don't care about meta).

Thanks :D


Of course, in previous editions it was a lot of fun to find weapon combinations that worked well for XV8s. Now we can split fire on any target(s) we like, so you'd think we'd want to have different weapons to engage different targets. However, the short range on our effective guns means that, while you can bring multiple different weapon types, it'll usually be hard to get in range of all the different targets you want to engage. Instead, consider bringing all of one weapon type (plus a few Flamers for overwatch if you like) and hunt down certain types of targets. Here are some builds that have been popular on ATT:

Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Commander w/ 3x Cyclic Ion Blasters, Advanced Targeting System; 2x Shield Drones (154)
Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)

3x XV8s w/ 9x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 6x Gun Drones (336)
3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x Advanced Targeting Systems; 6x Gun Drones (306)
3x XV8s w/ 9x Flamers, 6x Gun Drones (255)
3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 3x Flamers; 6x Gun Drones (327)
3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (273)

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