XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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555ea
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Posts: 27

XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#1 » Jun 03 2017 02:42

On the one hand, they are expensive as hell, on the other hand, HRR is finally usable.

The cheapest possible build is HRR+2plasma = 165 points. Which is cheaper than a single Railhead (171point), given that there are two rail shots, plus we have 2 more plasma, against drones that are not capable of anything. That's right, HRR is better in everything except T5, which we wound by 3+, instead of 2+, and T8, which is wounded by 4+.

Another funny thing is rocket drones. Yes, they cost 20 points, it seems expensive. But one missile pod costs more, 24. So the broadside with drone controller has a place to be, except that you can only take 2 drones per unit, I hope this will be FAQed, otherwise, the drones as a separate unit, need a spare wound in the form of gun \ shield drone.

Let's do maths. 3 units of broadsides vs 3 hammerheads with a Longstrike. XV88s are cheaper by +- 50 points.

T7 Sv3+ target in 24"
XV88 = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.67 (t7) * 3.5 (avgD6) = 7.04 + 6 * 0.5 * 0.17 (mortal) = 7.04 + 0.51 = 7.55 wounds.
plasma = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.5 (t7) * 0.83 (6+ sv) = 1.24 wounds.
7.55 + 1.24 = 8.79 wounds.

HH = 3 * 0.83 (bs2+) = 2.49, 1.66 * 0.67 (t7) + 0.83 * 0.83 (t7 + tank ace) = (1.12 + 0.69) * 3.5 (avgD6) = 6.34 + 3 * 0.83 * 0.17 (mortal) * 2 (avg d3) = 6.34 + 0.85 = 7.19 wounds.

Conclusion - XV88 pack more punch, even without markerlights \ Kauyoun. Considering their BS is the bottleneck, their firepower with a kayoun will be increased by 25% resulting in about 11 wounds. HHs with their BS can't benefit from markerlights that much.

HHs are more mobile, but as Heavy weapons are -1bs both will need 4MLs to fire without a penalty.

HHs are T7 W13 3+ vs T5 W6 2+, but XV88s are Battlesuits and are saved by drones.

Last, but not least, how cover modifies 2+ armor? If it's not, you can place broadsides in the open, while you should hide HHs in some cover restricting their LOS.
Last edited by 555ea on Jun 03 2017 04:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Pyropower
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Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#2 » Jun 03 2017 03:33

So cover will come into effect when you get hit by a weapon with AP -1 or more by reducing its effect on your save

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Bloodknife92
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Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#3 » Jun 03 2017 03:41

How on earth did you get an average roll on a D6? It is literally impossible to roll an average on a D6, as there's equal chance of rolling every side....
The days of goodly English is went

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 1724

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#4 » Jun 03 2017 03:47

Bloodknife92 wrote:How on earth did you get an average roll on a D6? It is literally impossible to roll an average on a D6, as there's equal chance of rolling every side....

^ this
Also if anything it would've been 3.5 since the average of 2d6 would be 7, no?

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boomwolf
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Posts: 1691

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#5 » Jun 03 2017 03:48

It's really easy to average a d6, but the result is 3.5, not 2.67.
No idea where he got that number.

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555ea
Shas'Saal
Posts: 27

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#6 » Jun 03 2017 04:07

Oops, you are right, I don't know why, but I wrongly remembered that (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 is 2.67, but it's 3.5.

Updated the "charts".

What do you think of it at all? It's a 1/4 of a 2000 list, considering 3 broadsides cost 495 points :?

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Elphiel
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Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#7 » Jun 03 2017 04:55

In my opinion the new Railgun mechanics and stats are not the buff we hoped for. One crucial reason for HYMP in the 7th edition was also, the reliability of wounds due to number of shots. Its like the Railhead/Ionhead comparison.

Ok the new Railgun isn't anymore that unreliable in pening and damaging high armoured or in the new edition high toughness targets with good save. But it still has a low amount of shots and worst of all, the actual damage inflicted by these shots is highly random. With a low amount of shots and a high damage variability it makes the Broadsides and Railheads unreliably and their use a constant gamble.

So from my point of view, the whole mathhammer comparison lacks any reliability because of that huge random factor of D6 damage.
Taking a look at the whole weapon range of the Tau faction. Only fusion blasters have the same problem but get this compensated by the half range rule.

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Atzilla
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Posts: 45

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#8 » Jun 03 2017 05:08

The days of goodly Math is went, two :biggrin:
Guess you just mixed up most likely outcome and average outcome.


For future reference, the rule of thumb for dice average is (highest + lowest value)/2
Or, since lowest is 1 most of the time, highest/2+0.5

BTT:
Problem with both is hammerhead and railtide is that missileside (esp. with ATS) is still a thing that exists

Some Math:

T7 Sv3+ target in 30"
3 XV88 w. 2xHYMP = 24*0.5 (bs4+)*0.5(t7)*2 (avgD3) *0.66 (Sv5+) = 8 Wounds
3 XV88 w. 2xSMS = 24*0.5 (bs4+)*0.33(t7)*0.5 (Sv4+) = 2 Wounds
8+2=10 Wounds

BTW Tau Plasma is S6 so your math should be:

T7 Sv3+ target in 24"
XV88 = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.67 (t7) * 3.5 (avgD6) = 7.04 + 6 * 0.5 * 0.17 (mortal) = 7.04 + 0.51 = 7.55 wounds.
plasma = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.33 (t7) * 0.83 (6+ sv) = 0.82 wounds.
7.55 + 0.82 = 8.37 wounds.

Against a Sv2+ target the railguns will come out on top, against everything else the missileside will be more versatile.
Granted, an ATS MissileSide is 210 Points but that's well spent imho
Last edited by Atzilla on Jun 03 2017 05:18, edited 1 time in total.

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MKJump
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Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#9 » Jun 03 2017 05:13

Id much rather run a Stormsurge with PBC, BCs, EWO, ATS and a shield generator. It's cheaper at 440pts and much more reliable.

Shadeseraph
Shas
Posts: 64

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#10 » Jun 03 2017 06:07

MKJump wrote:Id much rather run a Stormsurge with PBC, BCs, EWO, ATS and a shield generator. It's cheaper at 440pts and much more reliable.

Eh, rules wise I agree, but I dislike lords of war on principle, so I'm stuck with these. As such, this is a nice topic for me.

Also, IMO the stormsurge is ugly.

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