Savior Protocols Inquiry

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Aun'El Ka'mais Varot
Shas'Saal
Posts: 14

Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#1 » Jun 12 2017 12:51

Hello everyone!

Quick couple of questions regarding Savior Protocols if you have the time and knowledge.

Savior Protocols stated that if a drones unit is within 3" of a friendly infantry or battsuit you can choose to allocate any wounds to the drones instead of the target unit.

Here are my questions:

When moving the wound to the drones if the attack came from a D6 damage weapon that rolled a 5 is it 5 wounds going on one drone or is it 5 wounds going to the drone unit?

Can you move mortal wounds?

Can the casualties in the drones be removed from drones that are not within the 3" bubble but still part of the unit that is within the 3" bubble?

Do the drones get to use their armor save?

Here is my understanding of the rule as I read it. Battlesuit is hit with 5 ranged shots/melee attacks, 3 of those hits turn into wounds, one of those attacks cause d3 wounds and rolls max, so the battlesuit unit is now taking 5 wounds, you then move the 5 wounds over to the drones. My questions above are some of the points in this transfer that are confusing me a little.

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Panzer
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#2 » Jun 12 2017 01:06

Aun'El Ka'mais Varot wrote:Hello everyone!

Quick couple of questions regarding Savior Protocols if you have the time and knowledge.

Savior Protocols stated that if a drones unit is within 3" of a friendly infantry or battsuit you can choose to allocate any wounds to the drones instead of the target unit.

Here are my questions:

When moving the wound to the drones if the attack came from a D6 damage weapon that rolled a 5 is it 5 wounds going on one drone or is it 5 wounds going to the drone unit?

Can you move mortal wounds?

Can the casualties in the drones be removed from drones that are not within the 3" bubble but still part of the unit that is within the 3" bubble?

Do the drones get to use their armor save?

Here is my understanding of the rule as I read it. Battlesuit is hit with 5 ranged shots/melee attacks, 3 of those hits turn into wounds, one of those attacks cause d3 wounds and rolls max, so the battlesuit unit is now taking 5 wounds, you then move the 5 wounds over to the drones. My questions above are some of the points in this transfer that are confusing me a little.

You roll the damage after allocating the wound. So a Drone would tank the whole 5 damage. Also wound is not the same as damage. Two different terms. One wound can deal multiple damage on one model.

You can move mortal wounds depending on what exactly the source states. The Riptide Nova Reactor mortal wound I'd say you can't move, however a hit from a Seeker Missile should be moveable without a problem.

Yes you can remove any model in the Drone unit regardless of range or line of sight.

Drones can take their armor save just as they normally would.

The order of things would go like this:
1. Opponent rolls to-hit for his units attacks,
2. then rolls to-wound,
3. then you decide whether you want to allocate them to a nearby Drone unit or to one of your Suits,
4. then you roll saves (if possible),
5. then you roll for damage and remove the model if its wounds reach 0

If there are more wounds than models in your Drone unit, do only as many wounds at a time as there are models in your Drone unit. Do steps 3-5 until either the Drone unit is wiped or there are no wounds to allocate left.
Yes, that could mean you have to do one wound at a time even if there are 20 wounds to allocate.
Last edited by Panzer on Jun 12 2017 01:09, edited 1 time in total.

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relasine
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 94

Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#3 » Jun 12 2017 01:07

Resolution of attacks goes as follow:

1. Hit Roll
2. Wound Roll (to determine if a wound is inflicted)
3. Allocate Wound (which model takes the wound) - THIS is where the Savior Protocol is triggered
4. Saving Throw - Logic follows that the wounded Drone gets a save
5. Inflict Damage - This is where damage is inflicted to the model. The step states that that damage in excess of a model's W value to not carry over. The Drone eats all 5 wounds from your example.

You can move some Mortal Wounds. Rules for Mortal Wounds state that damage in excess of a model's W value DO carry over, but it wouldn't bounce back to the unit targeted, since Drones make up their own unit. My interpretation is that excess damage from Mortal Wounds carry over to other Drones in the unit.

Savior Protocols require that the unit is within 3", not individual models, so you can put wounds anywhere you like into the Drone unit, not exclusively the Drone model(s) within 3" of the target.

Aun'El Ka'mais Varot
Shas'Saal
Posts: 14

Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#4 » Jun 12 2017 01:37

Thank you both!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#5 » Jun 12 2017 07:24

If a Drone squad takes a 1,000 damage hit, you lose one Drone. If a Drone squad takes a 1,000 Mortal Wound hit, you lose all of your Drones in that unit. However, in neither case do the wounds spill over into the unit that the Drones were originally attached to. Pretty useful!

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#6 » Oct 24 2017 07:08

Resurrecting an old thread. After playing a game one the players looked up the rule FAQ and found an addition for drone saviour protocols. It note that if a wound from another model is allocated to it, they take a mortal wound instead of normal damage. As I understand this if I use shield drones they still can use their invulnerable save for the mortal wound? Other drones can not do anything correct?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos2_ENG.pdf

I found this thread when searching for the topic, thought I'd add to it so others don't stumble on it instead of making a new thread.
Last edited by PuppetMaster on Oct 24 2017 07:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Panzer
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#7 » Oct 24 2017 07:19

PuppetMaster wrote:Resurrecting an old thread. After playing a game one the players looked up the rule FAQ and found an addition for drone saviour protocols. It note that if a wound from another model is allocated to it, they take a mortal wound instead of normal damage. As I understand this if I use shield drones they still can use their invulnerable save for the mortal wound? Other drones can not do anything correct?

No invul saves (or any saves to be precise) against Mortal wounds.
It's either
- Drone gets shot at directly = gets its invul save + FnP saves for each damage that it would suffer after the invul save
or
- Drone uses Saviour protocl = FnP save against the Mortal wound.

And yeah other Drones can't do anything against Mortal wounds.

PuppetMaster wrote:I found this thread when searching for the topic, thought I'd add to it so others don't stumble on it instead of making a new thread.

Right decision. On ATT it's prefered to re-open old threads if it fits the topic instead of creating new ones like in other forums.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#8 » Oct 24 2017 07:55

PuppetMaster wrote:Resurrecting an old thread. After playing a game one the players looked up the rule FAQ and found an addition for drone saviour protocols. It note that if a wound from another model is allocated to it, they take a mortal wound instead of normal damage. As I understand this if I use shield drones they still can use their invulnerable save for the mortal wound? Other drones can not do anything correct?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos2_ENG.pdf

I found this thread when searching for the topic, thought I'd add to it so others don't stumble on it instead of making a new thread.

Panzer already answered this, but think about it this way: if you push a wound on to a Drone, the Drone dies, no saves allowed; the exception is the Shield Drone, which gets a 5+ to prevent that.

Wedrujacy
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#9 » Dec 03 2017 04:04

Do not remember if we touched that option at Protocol discussion: when during psychic phase unit of xv8 was smited and receive mortal wound (s). Are those with possibility to pass them to drones?

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Arka0415
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#10 » Dec 03 2017 04:19

Wedrujacy wrote:Do not remember if we touched that option at Protocol discussion: when during psychic phase unit of xv8 was smited and receive mortal wound (s). Are those with possibility to pass them to drones?

Definitely. A moral wound is still a successful wound, so it can be passed to a drone. In that case, the drone would take one mortal wound.

Note that it would be pretty unlikely for this to happen though, since normally drones are put between XV8s and enemy units, and smite targets the nearest unit.

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#11 » Dec 03 2017 07:48

True, my positioning failure then as it was first game I used xv8 on flamers .

But most important neither I or opponent were able to deliver strict response base on official info if those psychic MW can be passed forward

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#12 » Dec 03 2017 09:16

Arka0415 wrote:
Wedrujacy wrote:Do not remember if we touched that option at Protocol discussion: when during psychic phase unit of xv8 was smited and receive mortal wound (s). Are those with possibility to pass them to drones?

Definitely. A moral wound is still a successful wound, so it can be passed to a drone. In that case, the drone would take one mortal wound.

Note that it would be pretty unlikely for this to happen though, since normally drones are put between XV8s and enemy units, and smite targets the nearest unit.


I don't think so, but the discussion is open for debate till FAQ'ed.. In my opinion a Mortal wound is just a direct Damage point, so better discuss with your oponent or roll for it

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Arka0415
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#13 » Dec 03 2017 09:23

StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think so, but the discussion is open for debate till FAQ'ed.. In my opinion a Mortal wound is just a direct Damage point, so better discuss with your oponent or roll for it

The rulebook specifically states that mortal wounds are "allocated just like any other wound." I agree though, I'd like to see an FAQ about the issue.

Kerrygan
Shas
Posts: 33

Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#14 » Dec 03 2017 11:30

Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think so, but the discussion is open for debate till FAQ'ed.. In my opinion a Mortal wound is just a direct Damage point, so better discuss with your oponent or roll for it

The rulebook specifically states that mortal wounds are "allocated just like any other wound." I agree though, I'd like to see an FAQ about the issue.


Hello, I'm missing the point here. What is issue which would need a die roll? I do not understand what should be FAQed.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#15 » Dec 03 2017 01:12

Kerrygan wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think so, but the discussion is open for debate till FAQ'ed.. In my opinion a Mortal wound is just a direct Damage point, so better discuss with your oponent or roll for it

The rulebook specifically states that mortal wounds are "allocated just like any other wound." I agree though, I'd like to see an FAQ about the issue.


Hello, I'm missing the point here. What is issue which would need a die roll? I do not understand what should be FAQed.


He is saying that a mortal wound isn't a wound at all it's a "direct damage" so would ignore SP.

If you amd your opponent disagree on this (just as in that exact case where some people believe a mortal wound is a wound) and the rules don't give a crystal clear definition the quickest way to settle the issue is to roll off, the highest rollers interpretation of the rules stand

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#16 » Dec 03 2017 01:20

Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think so, but the discussion is open for debate till FAQ'ed.. In my opinion a Mortal wound is just a direct Damage point, so better discuss with your oponent or roll for it

The rulebook specifically states that mortal wounds are "allocated just like any other wound." I agree though, I'd like to see an FAQ about the issue.


I know and the main problem is the wording GW used in the matter.. wounds versus damage and the wound characteristic.
Anyway I use Mortal wounds as something that can't be saved that way. Unless it specifically says absorb damage or wounds lost (as that clearly is on the wound characteristic). But if my opponent has something similar I don't mind to use it the other way around.

Kerrygan wrote:Hello, I'm missing the point here. What is issue which would need a die roll? I do not understand what should be FAQed.


It's about the most important rule, if you can't settle an issue with your opponent then roll for it. ie.: your interpertntion on 1-3 his interpertation on 4-6 or something similar (even / uneven)

edit: got ninjad by Nymph :)

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GND
Shas'La
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Re: Savior Protocols Inquiry

Post#17 » Dec 03 2017 03:03

A mortal wound is definitely a wound, that is not an issue here. The potential problem is that after the FAQ, Saviour Protocols triggers when "an enemy attack successfully wounds". It is questionable whether a psychic power counts as an attack, since the word 'attack' is only used when describing shooting or close combat attacks.

Mind you, I think SP should be able to used against Smite, but that is RAI, not RAW.

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