Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Plainshow
Shas
Posts: 41

Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#55 » Sep 30 2017 07:06

I have two more on my shelf that I think I'll finish and deck out with Fusion. I really want to work the non-Commander List angle a bit more, and now I'm encouraged to try. I'm also pretty optimistic that the Ghostkeel feels about right points-wise and is less likely to be adjusted in Chapter Approved or the Codex. However, I do think two things are primed to change, that might give the Ghostkeel a buff indirectly.

One, I would not be surprised to see the Markerlight table get a re-work. I like the new system of leaving the tokens out and all units benefiting from them. That almost seems inspired by the same type of idea that Coordinated Firepower was, but works simply while being fluffy. It also doesn't punish an MSU approach to list building like the old Markerlights did. If +1 BS gets lowered, or some type of wound assistance shows up (re-roll 1s is fairly common in other Factions), or really anything that generally makes the Markerlight table increase the effectiveness of either volume of fire shooting or quality shooting, the Ghostkeel can capitalize on either or both.

Secondly, if Battlesuits in general get some buffs, that would not be shocking. Multi-Trackers and Blacksun Filters used to be standard on all suits, and many people still have suspicions that Jet Pack and/or Battlesuit keywords may be getting some utility. If we get our Support Systems changed a bit, or see new ones, the Ghostkeel is in a nice spot to make opportune use of beneficial ones due to it's flexible loadout and medium pricetag.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#56 » Sep 30 2017 03:04

Is it a viable option? Well...depends.
In casual games? Surely. Barely though. It has its difficulties for its cost.
In really competetive games? Not really.

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Blindeye
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Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#57 » Oct 02 2017 01:26

I've been having allot of success with an all fusion ghostkeel. Nice anti-armor unit with a lot of durability and tactical flexibility for the price. I feel offensively it struggles due to the inconsistency of the fusion collider and 4+ bs, but with markerlight support it can do some serious damage.

I've found that aggressive deployments where the keel is unsupported tend to not work out well for me. I've been using it as a line unit supported by drones where it can really benefit from the electro warfare suit and savior protocols. It moves fast enough to be deployed safely and still end up where it needs to be.
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Plainshow
Shas
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Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#58 » Oct 02 2017 04:59

Blindeye wrote:I feel offensively it struggles due to the inconsistency of the fusion collider and 4+ bs, but with markerlight support it can do some serious damage.

How many Markerlights do you typically pack in a 2k list? I have been fielding about 20, but feel like I need to either grab more (probably Drones), or work my list toward a Tidewall section or two, in order to keep my Markerlights firing longer.

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Blindeye
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Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#59 » Oct 02 2017 06:48

Plainshow wrote:How many Markerlights do you typically pack in a 2k list?


I've been playing mainly 1500 pt games as my local shop does 1500 pt tournaments. I normally run 15 marker lights (2 squads of 5 Pathfinders, 4 Marker Drones and a Fireblade). The lower point limit might be another reason I've been having success with the Ghostkeel.
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relasine
Shas'La
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Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#60 » Oct 02 2017 11:11

I think that Ghostkeels are fine, but are overshadowed by Commanders somewhat. As metas continue to develop and we start seeing more swarms, I think that Ghostkeel stock will begin to rise since they are not as vulnerable to being locked away from their targets as Commanders, which are able to be blocked by proper swarm deployment. Ghostkeels can be pushed back by this, but still get that big 12" move during the first turn.

Alternatively, if you're playing in any kind of limited format that restricts your available HQ slot in some way (i.e. a format that is 1 Battalion, 0-1 Super Heavy Auxiliary, 0-1 Fortification Network), and you can't run more than three Fusion Commanders, this gives you another Fusion source, albeit one not as consistent.

AcrylicSpider
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#61 » Jan 27 2018 05:55

I think that Ghostkeels are fine, but are overshadowed by Commanders somewhat


So true, if only the Ghostkeel had a touch more BS, either way i think if you are having a tough choice between a ghostkeel or a fourth QFC ( :P ) then consider the following....

what we have is 2 units that fulfill the same role but with minor key differences in the ways they operate.
{ as a note i will be comparing QFC to a 3Fkeel as the CIRkeel feels like an overpriced 2xCIB 2xBC/FB commander }

In the case of the Commander we have a 2+ w/ Rerolls on 1 (markerlights) to apply our basic suit weapons (FT/AFP/BC/PR/CIB/FB/MP) giving it the position of our codex's main firepower role w/o much variance from other units due to the outstanding reliability that BS 2+ has.

By comparison the Ghostkeel has a much less reliable application of firepower while also having a variable in the comparable build (2+1d3) shots vs 4 shots . this can be mitigated (a bit) with CP usage but that leaves less for the markerlight stratagem and puts more pressure on your lists markerlight provisions. this leaves the potential firepower in the ghostkeel to be greater but with the wider range of results (especially with the lower BS w/o ML support)

The next largest contrast point is how you defend each model and how/where each one comes onto the board

with the commander we have the convenience of 12" manta strike near anything we need and a further boost if we get a homing beacon to drop exactly on 9" for the FB 2d6 taking the highest. With that convenience as an additional benefit (boy these commanders have a lot going for them) of being untouchable while waiting in the manta to fry the first tank, preventing them from being shot down on the first round. it also gives the flexibility of being able to keep them in reserve for MORE then 1 turn should the board call for it. once dropped though, can be very vulnerable without drone support / screening which depending on where dropped can take a turn or two to race in to help.

The Ghostkeel has a few tricks up its sleeve in this regard though which i feel should not be understated, especially in a prolonged game. First it can infiltrate, allowing it and its drones to take up positions when needed in a slightly further out position, allowing you to muck with your opponents deployment as they are still jetpack suits and can quickly re position while forcing our opponent to react. being that they are on the field turn 1 we don't quite have the "surprise!" a QFC has, but is still carrying some firepower so they get a lot of hate. Speaking of which its stealth drones and stealth rules built around them allow it to be EXTREMELY resilient (-2 to hit) to oncoming fire at 12"+ meaning your opponent may under estimate the amount of firepower needed to remove it (i have seen this quite a bit in battle reports). finally the last benefit (in this case) is that it doesn't deep strike and only infiltrates at first, which may sound confusing at first but bare with me here :P . This means that you likely will be able to keep a unit of lets say shield drones / gun drones running with it, both of which have the option of throwing themselves in the way of fire, and in the case of shield drones right behind the 3Fkeel would allow it to throw failed hit saves to the shield drones to try and invuln save or sacrifice their little robotic selves for the greater good! making the unit much more resilient then typically considered

All in all i think the 3Fkeel is viable in a situation where you can provide some CP re rolls on the Collider and drone support. otherwise it feels like the commanders are going to be our big red "get rid of tank X" button while the 3Fkeels are a more niche unit you have to either build around or just have 1 dancing around saying "come get me astartes scum!"

this is only from what i have been seeing in battle reports / summarys with GK's and often they are solo w/ stealth suits so i would love to see the difference in effectiveness of having 2 squads of drones intead of 1 stealth squad to escort a GK :D

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 111

Re: Tau Ghostkeel....is it a viable option>?

Post#62 » Jan 28 2018 01:52

I think stealth suits up front
Maybe flamer crisis
Then a commander
And behind him a ghostkeel
Create a situation where the opponent has to fire at what they don't want to. Give everything shields or stims and Play for objectives. By time you add in drone support your more than half a 2000pt list though.


Id even go so far as say throw in a riptide just to be infront running blocker for the commanders and keels.
But we all know its stupid points and not worth it.

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