Panzer wrote:What's there to say? I'm not the one claiming they're good here.
That's right, Im the one saying they have a purpose and I've come back after some test games to talk some more. I hope we can get along better (twice i've said your pathfinder angle is the one worth looking at) because after my test games I came to one conclusion that we can agree on. pathfinders are simply the bomb.com
. I'm sure you'll be happy to hear that I still think kroot are good
things got a little testy last time but i think we can improve the conversation and get to some conclusions. I hope you see that im not just some armchair scrub general and I really have come here to learn and discuss what i have learned.
Panzer wrote:3. Scouting ahead on a flank and charge something (*sigh*):
For that I'd much rather take any kind of the above mentioned Drones since they are WAY more durable so their chance to get there and to survive once they're there is much better (aka they can do their job better) while the Gun Drones actually deal a ton more damage than Kroot in melee+shooting ever could hope to do. Oh and they have the FLY keyword so they can just ignore terrain and intervening units and can even fall back and keep shooting if there's no need to bind the opponents unit anymore (or if they get countercharged and survive).
4. a mix of all the above:
Okay I give you that, Kroot can all of that at the same time (though I'd argue how valuable taking a unit for 3. is when our Battlesuits all can do that just fine...especially Flamer Crisis with Shield Drone support).
So how important are frail scouting ObSec infantry for us? We have tons of deep strike and infiltrate units and unless the enemy plays a hyper mobile army and gets first turn there shouldn't be a problem claiming objectives you'd reach with scout+regular move. And even if they were sitting on a valuable ObSec...I know only of extremely few other units that are easier to remove than Kroot.
I really fail to see what role Kroot are supposed to fill in a T'au army that isn't done better or at least just as well by other less exotic units that get often taken anyway.
Point 4 is what I have been trying to say all along, but i view their low cost paired with diversity as way too useful to pass up. I think you've summarized their capabilities well but you still don't see them as the useful screen that i have seen them be. Their scout move also allows them to push out your deepstrike bubble and they can almost always find terrain on the first turn. with your enemy focusing on the more powerful units they tend to wiggle their way into some pretty handy situations like stopping a unit from getting out of a transport to tying up shooty units that are out of position all the while adding in some wounds to push units into leadership trouble.
I really cant stress enough how multipurpose they are, tying up dreadnoughts, transports, and the like really allows you to play against an opponent who is missing a portion of their army missing for a turn or 2. at worst they are a cheap 10w speed bump that can deny space and move on objectives. at best they tie up more valuable units and push weaker units into leadership trouble all while denying space and scoring. pathfinders don't offer the same space denying that the kroot do, they offer a more withdrawn power and direct utility through the much needed marker lights.
So I listened to your point about the pathfinders and proxied up a few lists with a ton of them to fill in for my kroot units I have been taking. I took 2 squads of 9 with 3 railrifles and 3 squads of 6 with 2 ion rifles each, as well as another list thats a bunch of vanilla pathfinder, 5 squads of 5, to do exactly what i used my kroot for. my 2 games with the 5 squads w/rifles. IT WAS AWESOME. the other was super meh, pathfinders are not the best screening unit, not that good at all, with everybody and their mother happy to focus them and you need them for that juicy marker light support. extra marker lights for days and the special weapons give them a punching capability that is really something, im going to add another ghostkeel to my armies because of how well it did with all those marker lights. the kroot are the perfect cover for a ghostkeel/pathfinder flank and makes the risk of getting close with the 18inch range or 15 inch double tap, not risky at all.
and the shaper is the most useless model in our codex, if you run kroot and other things to support them like a ghostkeel, the ethereal give you some much needed resilience.