My battleplan...

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
sunspear
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My battleplan...

Post#1 » Jun 19 2017 03:37

Bear with me, I've been away from the game for a few editions and I'm totally new to T'au.
I've been reading what I can and watching any batrep with T'au I can find. I don't know the Details yet, I'm basing this mainly off of models I like and my elementary knowledge of the T'au. This is what I have been thinking, any advise would be appreciated.
I would like to base the army around fire warriors. Several units. I could sprinkle in some breachers and pathfinders. This would make up my anvil, I know, probably not much of an anvil but still. I wonder if a large blob of kroot could be the first wave of this anvil with the guns behind them?
The hammer would then be crisis suits, commanders, heavies. What ever I can get in there for the points. I would like to include shadow sun, just cause I like the idea of converting a mini for her. I also like cold star. Again mainly basing this off of models I like, but I have read good things about both.
Is this vague battle plan viable? Any suggestions on how to equip the suits for this approach, or any suggestions on why it would or wouldn't work.
I'm still learning the T'au, they are probably the army I know least about but I have always liked them and I wanted something totally new for 8th.

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: My battleplan...

Post#2 » Jun 19 2017 04:16

Hammer and anvil requires the enemy to be somewhat in between. With kroot and breachers advancing, are they really the anvil? Your force will definitely benifit from fusions on shadowsun or your crisis.
If you are landing a first turn charge with Kroot (idk the math if they can) then great. If not, place them behind the breachers(in the devilfish). Kroot are a good counter charging unit or a ment to die unit. They however will not hold up as the first rank of an advancing gunline. They might not even hold up to shooting to even be able to speedbump the opponents assult.

All that said. 8th smiles on infantry so using them likely wont be a bad idea. Depending on how many units of infantry you go. You might want to be prepaired to go second. This is all just theory crafting, im still assembeling my army and have yet to play.

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MKJump
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#3 » Jun 19 2017 05:53

From what I've played, Firewarriors are good against infantry and can maybe take a light-medium vehicle down if you can get them within rapid fire range with a Fireblade to support them. They also add "mass" to your board. Your opponent will often be forced to shoot them to clear objectives which leaves your heavier units free to mop up their units. However, you definitely need to back them up with heavy guns because you can't just expect them to do the killing.

A good infantry list will be able to field a good sea of Firewarriors and also have some screening units to help distract your enemy - this can be Kroot or gun drones.
You'll then need Crisis Suits and/or Commanders to strategically deepstrike and flank your enemy units. I've found this to be highly game changing if done correctly.
Finally, your need some firepower that can handle your opponent's tougher vehicles and monsters. This will likely be Longstrike, Broadsides, Stormsurge, Ghostkeels, Riptide and perhaps Fusion Blaster Crisis Suits.

Also, you can't forget markerlights. They are very, very important this edition. I personally run 16 Marker Pathfinders (BS 4/5+) and 2 Fireblades (BS 2+) giving me 18. But be aware, a good player will attempt to target your Marker support early and set you back for the late/mid game. That means being clever when you deploy and move.

Overall, I tend to think of an army functionally, knowing what every unit is there to do and how to do it. Before the game even begins figure out what your priority objectives and units are to take and who has the best chance of securing them aims within your army. Also, think about how you can manipulate your opponent's turn. Just like chess you can "check" a unit. Either they're then forced deal with your threat or ignore it and pay the price. Either way it gets you what you want.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#4 » Jun 19 2017 06:12

sunspear wrote:I would like to base the army around fire warriors. Several units. I could sprinkle in some breachers and pathfinders. This would make up my anvil, I know, probably not much of an anvil but still. I wonder if a large blob of kroot could be the first wave of this anvil with the guns behind them?
The hammer would then be crisis suits, commanders, heavies. What ever I can get in there for the points. I would like to include shadow sun, just cause I like the idea of converting a mini for her. I also like cold star. Again mainly basing this off of models I like, but I have read good things about both.


The "hammer and anvil" image implies striking something, it's mainly a used to describe assault tactics. By fixing one force in melee, then hitting it with another, you can easily line up charges for units that need them.

If you want to use that image though, think about it this way. A Tau army is not a hammer and an anvil, but rather two hammers. You need to catch the opponent between two (or more) punishing bodies of fire. This is the tactic we call "Mont"ka." Force them to split up, then use your huge range to focus fire on the enemy's divided body of troops. We call this "Kauyon." So, as Tau, you have two main phases to your strategy. First, you smash them with all the force you can muster. Force the enemy to split up, then focus fire on priority units.

Now, the one problem is that Tau can dish it out, but they can't take it. We need something to stop the enemy from dealing damage. First, we can alpha strike the enemy's main damage-dealers. We also need to use a screening force to prevent the enemy from assaulting our less-mobile units. By using Drones in front of our more static infantry bodies, we can slow the enemy's advance and buy us valuable time to unload more firepower on them.

As a Tau player, you will have five types of units at your disposal. Gunline units (Fire Warriors, Fireblades) sit in the back, camp objectives, and shoot at long range. Fire Support units (Broadsides, Hammerheads) provide alternative kinds of firepower, like dedicated anti-tank and anti-character. Screening units (Kroot, Drones) prevent charges on your Gunline. Reconnaissance units (Pathfinders) use Markerlights to light up priority targets. Finally, Interdiction units (Commanders, XV8s, Breachers) alpha strike priority targets, cause chaos, and draw the enemy army in different directions.

sunspear
Shas'Saal
Posts: 41

Re: My battleplan...

Post#5 » Jun 19 2017 01:38

Thanks for the detailed breakdowns. It really helps wrap my head around this army. I played chaos in 5th and part of 6th and it was basically run forward and use a beat stick.
I'm going to begin working out what models I think I will need. I will probably have more questions later. But this definitely helps me with a starting point.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#6 » Jun 19 2017 08:14

sunspear wrote:Thanks for the detailed breakdowns. It really helps wrap my head around this army. I played chaos in 5th and part of 6th and it was basically run forward and use a beat stick.
I'm going to begin working out what models I think I will need. I will probably have more questions later. But this definitely helps me with a starting point.


Tau are a really strange army. As the saying goes, we have "one good phase." Not good compared to other factions, just one good phase. We can move reasonably well, have no psychic, shoot like crazy, then have no assault. Everything goes toward shooting, buffing shooting, or protecting shooting.

The "run forward and use a beat stick" tactic is our favorite one to play against. We get 1-3 turns before the beat stick hits us, so we can alpha strike and destroy priority targets to limit its effectiveness, then sacrifice our screening units and shoot again!

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Panzer
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#7 » Jun 20 2017 09:15

Actually the "one good phase" was never true unless you were playing a gunline list.
The movement phase (and to some extend the assault phase) was and still is one of the most important phases for T'au. Whether it's deep striking, JSJ, charge/fall back moves, they all are needed to win games even more so than it's the case for many other armies.

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Arka0415
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#8 » Jun 20 2017 07:58

Panzer wrote:Actually the "one good phase" was never true unless you were playing a gunline list.
The movement phase (and to some extend the assault phase) was and still is one of the most important phases for T'au. Whether it's deep striking, JSJ, charge/fall back moves, they all are needed to win games even more so than it's the case for many other armies.


It's just a saying. I think it captures something though. Our Shooting phase is extraordinary. The other phases are very important to a Tau army, and the kinds of moves we make will make or break a game. But, at the end of the day, we cannot charge. We have no psykers. 100% of the damage we will deal will be in the shooting phase. We have one highly-relevant phases (Movement) but only one good phase, I think. The Psychic phase does nothing for us, and the Charge phase will be extremely situational. The Fight phase too gives us nothing of course.

If you want an example of armies which have all "good phases," look at Harlequins and Tyranids.

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Panzer
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#9 » Jun 20 2017 11:10

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Actually the "one good phase" was never true unless you were playing a gunline list.
The movement phase (and to some extend the assault phase) was and still is one of the most important phases for T'au. Whether it's deep striking, JSJ, charge/fall back moves, they all are needed to win games even more so than it's the case for many other armies.


It's just a saying. I think it captures something though. Our Shooting phase is extraordinary. The other phases are very important to a Tau army, and the kinds of moves we make will make or break a game. But, at the end of the day, we cannot charge. We have no psykers. 100% of the damage we will deal will be in the shooting phase. We have one highly-relevant phases (Movement) but only one good phase, I think. The Psychic phase does nothing for us, and the Charge phase will be extremely situational. The Fight phase too gives us nothing of course.

If you want an example of armies which have all "good phases," look at Harlequins and Tyranids.

It's a misleading saying and thus shouldn't get repeated anymore.
Yes our damage comes from the shooting phase but hopefully this is once more an addition where it's not just about the potential damage output of an army.

Arka0415 wrote:But, at the end of the day, we cannot charge.

Wrong, we can and we should regularly. Our Suits are very durable and there is almost no downside in getting into melee with them now since we can just jump out and keep shooting.
I used that to take a Techpriest and an Onager Dunecrawler out for a turn and in another game to jump over a screening unit and put Fusion Blaster into a Techpriests face already. Just don't charge any dedicated melee unit.

Also, rather lucky, but I charged a Techpriest with only one wound left with my Coldstar Commander in the last turn of a game and managed to punch his face (one wound got through, he failed his 2+ armor and had no CP left).

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thesnailmaster
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#10 » Jun 20 2017 11:15

Panzer wrote:It's a misleading saying and thus shouldn't get repeated anymore.
Yes our damage comes from the shooting phase but hopefully this is once more an addition where it's not just about the potential damage output of an army.

Arka0415 wrote:But, at the end of the day, we cannot charge.

Wrong, we can and we should regularly. Our Suits are very durable and there is almost no downside in getting into melee with them now since we can just jump out and keep shooting.
I used that to take a Techpriest and an Onager Dunecrawler out for a turn and in another game to jump over a screening unit and put Fusion Blaster into a Techpriests face already. Just don't charge any dedicated melee unit.

Also, rather lucky, but I charged a Techpriest with only one wound left with my Coldstar Commander in the last turn of a game and managed to punch his face (one wound got through, he failed his 2+ armor and had no CP left).


I totally agree, Tau have so many options to tie up enemy units, sure we won't sweep them up in CC, but as you said, suits can easily fall back and keep shooting.

Also ATS is great for coldstars as they also get the -1 AP in melee since every unit is assumed to have a basic melee weapon that would be modified by that upgrade.

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Arka0415
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#11 » Jun 20 2017 11:17

thesnailmaster wrote:
Panzer wrote:Also ATS is great for coldstars as they also get the -1 AP in melee since every unit is assumed to have a basic melee weapon that would be modified by that upgrade.


If only. The Coldstar Commander is equipped with a close combat weapon, but the AP of that weapon is "-" and not "0". Subtract 1 from - and it's still -, so the Coldstar does not get AP-1 from his ATS.

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thesnailmaster
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#12 » Jun 20 2017 11:37

Arka0415 wrote:
thesnailmaster wrote:
Panzer wrote:Also ATS is great for coldstars as they also get the -1 AP in melee since every unit is assumed to have a basic melee weapon that would be modified by that upgrade.


If only. The Coldstar Commander is equipped with a close combat weapon, but the AP of that weapon is "-" and not "0". Subtract 1 from - and it's still -, so the Coldstar does not get AP-1 from his ATS.


Wow, how did I not catch that, many thanks for pointing it out.

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Panzer
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#13 » Jun 20 2017 11:47

thesnailmaster wrote:Also ATS is great for coldstars as they also get the -1 AP in melee since every unit is assumed to have a basic melee weapon that would be modified by that upgrade.

They don't.
The CCW everyone without a melee weapon in their profile gets has AP- you can't modify that. It would need to have AP0 to benefit from ATS.

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MKJump
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#14 » Jun 21 2017 05:27

On the topic CC, have people seen the Y'vahra rules leaked? That thing will definitely replace my Riptide when the FW rules drop. Hoping other units like tetras and the barracuda are good too. I'm wanting to increase the versatility in my army.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: My battleplan...

Post#15 » Jun 21 2017 08:45

MKJump wrote:On the topic CC, have people seen the Y'vahra rules leaked? That thing will definitely replace my Riptide when the FW rules drop. Hoping other units like tetras and the barracuda are good too. I'm wanting to increase the versatility in my army.


Some people are speculating the points will be similar, looking at the cost in power. I'm hoping Tetras are good too, love the model and it would be cool to field effective mechanized Pathfinders.

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