Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Arka0415
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Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#1 » Jul 27 2017 10:12

The Sun Shark got quite a bit better with the new FAQ of course. At 167 points with one Missile Pod or 191 with both, it can output an impressive amount of S7 firepower and gets the Pulse Bomb as an added bonus! It's decently durable (for a flyer) and fast. However, it'll die to a few lucky Lascannon shots and its heavy weapons (Markerlight, overcharged Ion Rifles) don't play well with its minimum move. The Pulse Bomb is also a bit random, and can be avoided if the enemy positions their units well.

Is the Sun Shark a good unit, or not? What do you think?

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materpillar
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#2 » Jul 27 2017 10:30

I've used the sunshark three already in fairly laid back games and found it to be extremely underwhelming (pre this last FAQ). The best part about it is far and away it's bombing run. Mortal wounds on infintry models are great. However, it is extremely difficult to position the sunshark in a way that you'll be able to consistently bomb things. The best case scenario I've found is every other turn, more likely you'll only bomb two things during the game assuming your sunshark survives.

I'm also extremely unimpressed with STR 7 weapons this edition. Two extra shots on the drone might make it slightly better, but putting 6 STR 7 shots at BS4 into anything is barely going to scratch some paint.


Basically when I fielded it most of my opponents just ignored it and it flew around and did minimal damage. It's fine if you're bombing expensive marine units (one game it did chunk a plague marine squad). It's also extremely good as a screening unit for a coldstar battlesuit. It didn't feel completely awful like last edition but it doesn't feel particularly useful either.
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Panzer
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#3 » Jul 27 2017 10:35

I think it's good but not tournament level good. It really needs BS3+ or non-heavy weapons (or both :P ). Same goes for the Razorshark, just that he is a lot worse lol

I'm honestly thinking about detaching the Ion Drones asap and let them join a unit of Stealth Suits with Drone Controller. Or maybe a Coldstar with Drone Controller even. The 20" movement is nice and two Ion Rifles per Drone is really good but on the Sunshark that constantly has to move it loses a lot of its potential.

And then there's still the question whether they actually get the same special rules the Sunshark gets because then they'd be mostly immune to melee and get a -1 to-hit modifier like stealth suits which would make them really awesome and even more a reason to detach asap. :D

Just think about it. One Interceptor Drone costs when you subtract the points for two Ion Rifles just 1p! That's sick!

Antao
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#4 » Jul 27 2017 12:22

Will take it in fun games. Probably not that often in playing to win games.

It's strength is hugely affected by how good your bombing target selection is. Elite infantry could make it earn it's points cost back really quickly. Bombing guardsman or gaunts however is mostly a waste. I've not been thrilled with ion weaponry thus far, with the overcharged edition even more underwhelming. I would like to have seen the bomb do D3 or D6 damage to single targets, (useful for taking on MC's or Dreads) but it's clear they intended it as an anti infantry weapon.

I like the drones, wish I could just take those without the plane. S7 this edition. Just not sure how I feel about it, I prefer either 5 or 8.

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NumberM
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#5 » Jul 27 2017 02:56

The fact that it got 2 more ion rifles is a huge buff! Remember Ion rifles are rapid fire, so 8 shots at 15". There is no point in overcharging them, since they still only do one damage and the chance to lose a drone plus the heavy d3 profile are way to much of a penalty. 50" movement is plenty to get into rapid fire range. Its good against infantry and mediocre agains other targets. You should try to plan your movements in advance to get the most out of the bombs. It's not hard to kill, but you still have to dedicate firepower towards it, which means less pressure on the rest of your units. Taking one in an all-comers list won't hurt, allthough in the current knight/vehicle heavy meta probably not worth it. If Raven Guard gets popular it might be worth a second look, since it's a pretty good counter to their chapter tactic.

Jburli
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#6 » Jul 27 2017 05:12

It really depends on what you can bomb. If you're bombing big squads of MEQs it'll earn its points back fast.

If you get a markerlight hit or three on the enemy (and you're out of rapid fire range) overcharging with the drones could be a great advantage. Not sure about detaching the drones, though. If you do I'm sure they'll be your enemy's target priority #1 due to their crazy firepower:fragility ratio.

It might not be the most competitive unit, but it seems like it'd be fun to play.
Yes, you've got give a lot of thought to where you'll fly it, but 20-50" movement means you can pretty much put it wherever you're already not.
Use it to screen a deepstriking fusion commander on the turn it arrives, or follow a coldstar around.
Bombing regular infantry should kill about half - this is huge! Even against primaris or TEQs it'll a few guys.
Umm, can flyers hold objectives? Can they collect points for behind enemy lines? If so, that's easy points right there :biggrin:

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Dark Hope
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#7 » Jul 27 2017 06:14

I'm objective games it's ok, but they're are better options for infantry clearing out there for the same price tag imo. They can't really do much in terms of completing objectives, with the acception of nuking smaller HQs. The rule says ANY unit it passes over, so you can totally bomb a captain to hell.

I suggest bringing it on the board at an angle you can adjust and hit another on round 2. If you are stuck in a position you can't bomb anything, just fly off the board and come in next turn in a better position rather than try to salvage your poor position and get a markerlight and a few missiles off that do a few wounds max.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Arka0415
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#8 » Jul 27 2017 06:32

NumberM wrote:The fact that it got 2 more ion rifles is a huge buff! Remember Ion rifles are rapid fire, so 8 shots at 15". There is no point in overcharging them, since they still only do one damage and the chance to lose a drone plus the heavy d3 profile are way to much of a penalty. 50" movement is plenty to get into rapid fire range.


There's absolutely a point to overcharging though! You get D3 (statistically 2) shots at 30" rather than 15", and S8 is double S4, a common toughness for infantry. Given that an overcharged Ion Rifle has, statistically, the same number of shots, longer range, and higher strength compared to the non-overcharged profile, it's especially useful vs T4 infantry!
Last edited by Arka0415 on Jul 27 2017 10:28, edited 1 time in total.

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CmdrCASh
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#9 » Jul 27 2017 06:44

Arka0415 wrote:There's absolutely a point to overcharging though! You get D3 (statistically 2) shots at 30" rather than 15", and while the Drones are attached to the Sunshark they cannot be destroyed due to overheating, as the Flyer itself would lose the wound rather than the drones. Given that an overcharged Ion Rifle has, statistically, the same number of shots, longer range, and higher strength compared to the non-overcharged profile, it's especially useful vs T4 infantry!


Unfortunately the Attached Drones rule on the Sunshark does say specifically that when the drones are attached, a roll of 1 when firing overcharge slays the drone.
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Arka0415
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#10 » Jul 27 2017 10:28

CmdrCASh wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:There's absolutely a point to overcharging though! You get D3 (statistically 2) shots at 30" rather than 15", and while the Drones are attached to the Sunshark they cannot be destroyed due to overheating, as the Flyer itself would lose the wound rather than the drones. Given that an overcharged Ion Rifle has, statistically, the same number of shots, longer range, and higher strength compared to the non-overcharged profile, it's especially useful vs T4 infantry!


Unfortunately the Attached Drones rule on the Sunshark does say specifically that when the drones are attached, a roll of 1 when firing overcharge slays the drone.


I'll edit my post then, didn't realize that. Let me just ask though... why would they make two different rules with the same name?? :neutral:

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Panzer
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#11 » Jul 27 2017 10:56

Arka0415 wrote:
CmdrCASh wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:There's absolutely a point to overcharging though! You get D3 (statistically 2) shots at 30" rather than 15", and while the Drones are attached to the Sunshark they cannot be destroyed due to overheating, as the Flyer itself would lose the wound rather than the drones. Given that an overcharged Ion Rifle has, statistically, the same number of shots, longer range, and higher strength compared to the non-overcharged profile, it's especially useful vs T4 infantry!


Unfortunately the Attached Drones rule on the Sunshark does say specifically that when the drones are attached, a roll of 1 when firing overcharge slays the drone.


I'll edit my post then, didn't realize that. Let me just ask though... why would they make two different rules with the same name?? :neutral:

It's not a complete different rule, just a special thing going for attached drones that can overcharge their weapons because normally RAW it says the parent unit is using the weapon, not the Drone.

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Panzer
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#12 » Jul 27 2017 11:06

Dark Hope wrote:I'm objective games it's ok, but they're are better options for infantry clearing out there for the same price tag imo. They can't really do much in terms of completing objectives, with the acception of nuking smaller HQs. The rule says ANY unit it passes over, so you can totally bomb a captain to hell.

I suggest bringing it on the board at an angle you can adjust and hit another on round 2. If you are stuck in a position you can't bomb anything, just fly off the board and come in next turn in a better position rather than try to salvage your poor position and get a markerlight and a few missiles off that do a few wounds max.

You are mixing 7th and 8th rules here. Actually everythign you wrote is 7th edition. Please read the 8th edition rules before commenting on a thread.
There is no such thing as Flyer coming in on the board anymore and also no such thing as leaving the boeard and coming back next turn.
You deploy them as any other unit and can't leave the board on their own. If their minimum Move forces them out off the board it is destroyed. (Check page 177, 1. Movement Phase -> Minimum Move).

Nuking HQs won't work either. A single Mortal wound on a 4+ is nothing.

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materpillar
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#13 » Jul 27 2017 11:45

Panzer wrote:You are mixing 7th and 8th rules here. Actually everythign you wrote is 7th edition. Please read the 8th edition rules before commenting on a thread.
There is no such thing as Flyer coming in on the board anymore and also no such thing as leaving the boeard and coming back next turn.
You deploy them as any other unit and can't leave the board on their own. If their minimum Move forces them out off the board it is destroyed. (Check page 177, 1. Movement Phase -> Minimum Move).

Nuking HQs won't work either. A single Mortal wound on a 4+ is nothing.

I believe there is still rules for flying of the board in the core rule book. However, it is under "optional rules". So some people might still use them.
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Panzer
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#14 » Jul 28 2017 12:00

materpillar wrote:
Panzer wrote:You are mixing 7th and 8th rules here. Actually everythign you wrote is 7th edition. Please read the 8th edition rules before commenting on a thread.
There is no such thing as Flyer coming in on the board anymore and also no such thing as leaving the boeard and coming back next turn.
You deploy them as any other unit and can't leave the board on their own. If their minimum Move forces them out off the board it is destroyed. (Check page 177, 1. Movement Phase -> Minimum Move).

Nuking HQs won't work either. A single Mortal wound on a 4+ is nothing.

I believe there is still rules for flying of the board in the core rule book. However, it is under "optional rules". So some people might still use them.

Only when you include Death from the Skies which also includes a bunch of other rules like the Dogfight phase and Front/Side/Rear arcs as well.

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Arka0415
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#15 » Jul 28 2017 12:07

Panzer wrote:It's not a complete different rule, just a special thing going for attached drones that can overcharge their weapons because normally RAW it says the parent unit is using the weapon, not the Drone.


It's like USRs just more confusing. I saw "Attached Drones" and figured it did the same thing as all the other "Attached Drones" rules. That's what Arka gets for not reading :P

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Dark Hope
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#16 » Jul 28 2017 01:20

Panzer wrote:You are mixing 7th and 8th rules here. Actually everythign you wrote is 7th edition. Please read the 8th edition rules before commenting on a thread.
There is no such thing as Flyer coming in on the board anymore and also no such thing as leaving the boeard and coming back next turn.
You deploy them as any other unit and can't leave the board on their own. If their minimum Move forces them out off the board it is destroyed. (Check page 177, 1. Movement Phase -> Minimum Move).

Nuking HQs won't work either. A single Mortal wound on a 4+ is nothing.


I did read all the rules, lol. It's in the advanced rules. Also it's 1d6 for each model +1 on infantry units. That alone isn't enough to nuke an HQ yeah, but as long as you position it to end it's movement correctly those ion shots are going to do some serious damage.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Panzer
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#17 » Jul 28 2017 01:48

Dark Hope wrote:
Panzer wrote:You are mixing 7th and 8th rules here. Actually everythign you wrote is 7th edition. Please read the 8th edition rules before commenting on a thread.
There is no such thing as Flyer coming in on the board anymore and also no such thing as leaving the boeard and coming back next turn.
You deploy them as any other unit and can't leave the board on their own. If their minimum Move forces them out off the board it is destroyed. (Check page 177, 1. Movement Phase -> Minimum Move).

Nuking HQs won't work either. A single Mortal wound on a 4+ is nothing.


I did read all the rules, lol. It's in the advanced rules. Also it's 1d6 for each model +1 on infantry units. That alone isn't enough to nuke an HQ yeah, but as long as you position it to end it's movement correctly those ion shots are going to do some serious damage.

Yeah as I said, Death from the Skies. Which would be its own mission type and also comes with a bunch of additional rules like a Dogfight phase and arcs for flyer as well.

1d6(+1) is the chance to inflict a mortal wound on said model, not the amount of mortal wounds. Hence why it's 4+ on infantry and 5+ on anything else. Again a single Mortal wound is far from "nuking" something. It takes a bit more to scare multi-wound models that can otherwise pretty easily avoid losing wounds. :D

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NumberM
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Re: Let's talk about the Sun Shark

Post#18 » Jul 28 2017 04:09

If the other player makes a mistake and only shields his character from one side you can position the bomber so that it's closest and then shoot it with all of its weapons. 4 ion rifles and 1-2 missile pods will even hurt space marine characters. But I agree, the bomb is wasted on characters.
Last edited by NumberM on Jul 28 2017 07:43, edited 1 time in total.

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