Tanks - what a disappointment

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#109 » Oct 30 2017 03:01

Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


That's exactly what I was meaning. I just suspect we don't get to fire 6 at a time. :P

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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#110 » Oct 30 2017 03:04

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


That's exactly what I was meaning. I just suspect we don't get to fire 6 at a time. :P

Depends on how Seeker Missiles will be changed I guess. Shooting 6 at a time at BS4+ or BS3+ really isn't strong at all for the points a Skyray costs.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#111 » Oct 30 2017 03:14

Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


That's exactly what I was meaning. I just suspect we don't get to fire 6 at a time. :P

Depends on how Seeker Missiles will be changed I guess. Shooting 6 at a time at BS4+ or BS3+ really isn't strong at all for the points a Skyray costs.


It would definitely make them playable again. Still confused why SKYray's can't shoot flyers reliably anymore...

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Arka0415
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#112 » Oct 30 2017 06:13

Jorthax wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:2. A strategem


My problem with strategem's fixing things is that we can be (not always) a relatively 'elite' army and therefore I've found it harder to fill out those +3CP force orgs to get as high a totals as my friends. Paying 1CP a turn to fire a hammerhead is not going to help. I have a feeling we are going to be CP starved if we get JSJ back.

I mean, I'm not advocating this, but it is one of GW's options.

Yojimbob wrote:
Haechi wrote:Considering what happened to Leman Russes and Fire Prisms, we could hope for the same treatment on our HH, and have their turret fire twice if they moved at half range. That and a small price drop would make them very viable.


It's basically a guarantee that we will get the same treatment for the HH but I'm STILL confused as to what will happen to the skyray. I'm betting it goes the same was as other flyers getting renewable missiles every turn but I doubt it will be the full 6 like it always has been. Likely will be dropped to 4.

Honestly, I feel like if each Seeker was slightly more powerful (2 or D3 mortal wounds) and the rack could be reloaded (maybe 2D3 Seekers?) it would be a good unit. Not amazing, but good.

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Haechi
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#113 » Oct 30 2017 07:42

Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


Definitely.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#114 » Oct 30 2017 08:11

Haechi wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


Definitely.


A more specific fix would make "skyray missile rack" a weapon
Heavy D6 72" range each hit from this weapon causes D3 mortal wounds, unless firing at a target with atleast 2 markerlight tokens this weapon only hits on a 6 regardless of modifiers.

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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#115 » Oct 30 2017 08:15

Nymphomanius wrote:
Haechi wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


Definitely.


A more specific fix would make "skyray missile rack" a weapon
Heavy D6 72" range each hit from this weapon causes D3 mortal wounds, unless firing at a target with atleast 2 markerlight tokens this weapon only hits on a 6 regardless of modifiers.

That's kinda just re-inventing the wheel. Just give it the according special rule and call it a day lol
"Missile rack: Seeker missiles shot by this unit aren't one-use only."

Ricordis
Shas'La
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#116 » Oct 31 2017 01:25

Field Resupply:
At the end of each of your moving phases roll a dice. On a 5+ you regain 1 Seeker Missile up to your initial limit.

or

Emergency resupply:
Once per battle you may call in an emergency resupply. At the beginning of your movement phase roll a D6 for every Seeker Missile missing. On a 4+ the missile is restocked and can be used again. Every (succesfully restocked) model may not move in this phase anymore at any circumstances.

or combine them and add the following sentence to "emergency resupply":
Using this rule deactivates "Field Resupply" for the rest of the battle.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#117 » Nov 01 2017 08:39

Ricordis wrote:Field Resupply:
At the end of each of your moving phases roll a dice. On a 5+ you regain 1 Seeker Missile up to your initial limit.

or

Emergency resupply:
Once per battle you may call in an emergency resupply. At the beginning of your movement phase roll a D6 for every Seeker Missile missing. On a 4+ the missile is restocked and can be used again. Every (succesfully restocked) model may not move in this phase anymore at any circumstances.

or combine them and add the following sentence to "emergency resupply":
Using this rule deactivates "Field Resupply" for the rest of the battle.


The thing is, other flyers who have really good missiles have unlimited numbers of missiles and can fire up to 4 a turn. I very seriously hope they don't put a restriction on how WE have to get them back. Granted ours are mortal wounds, but still.

AleksandrGRC
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#118 » Nov 03 2017 12:54

I agree with panzers idea
Its
Just like my railgun hammerhead idea
Lets make our army the great white sharks of mortal wound spam :)

Ahem
Thats heavy sniper mortal wounds son.
Now go put gilliman away

though that would require sniper markerlights possibly on the skyray itself, but im ok with that

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#119 » Nov 06 2017 04:44

I want to get 3 hammerhead tanks (one being longstrike). I been doing some math. When we unlock tier 2 markerlights we deal 1.944 mortal wounds per tank with 2 seeker missles. Assuming a standard hammerhead has longstrike's buff we actually do similar damage to Lascannons. Without markerlight support shooting at vechiles, an average tank does 0.277 mortal wounds/shot( or mortal wounds 13.8% of the time). Longstrike does 0.555 mortal wounds /shot (or mortal wounds 27.77℅ of the time.). Also Long shot can shoot at +2bs through -1 to hit (moving, hard to hit, or slight injury) without marker lights.

***Toughness 7 ,save 3***
Rail/+2 BS hammerheadw/MW:2.221 damage/shot
Rail/Longstrike w/mw:2.430 damage/shot
2Las cannons: 2.592 damage/shot
(Compared to commanders
Fbx4 commander: 7.777
3 cib +ats commander: 4.444)

***Add invul save +5 saves (daemons)***
Hammerhed: 1.258 damage/shot
Long strike: 1.801damage/shot
2 las cannons: 2.074 damage/shot

***Invul +4(stormsurge with shield gen?)***
Rail Hammerhead: 1.249 damage/shot
Rail longstrike: 1.770 damage/shot
2 lascannons:1.555 damage/shot

So our tanks fall behind slightly behind sheer damage output but we get massive range. The problem is our damage is more subject to variance, so when it's bad, it awful.

I do like our seeker missles, with marker lights we are likely to put down bigger threats quicker. We also take longer to cripple slightly and have more wounds.

Commanders put out more damage immediately but are very likely to not see another turn of shooting. I am assuming if I get 3 tanks longstrike is likely to live to see turn 2 and the other hammerheads can live to see turn 3. This should make their overall damage output similar to commanders over the course of a game.

All just my opinions though, I haven't played or proxied any. I want to play them with 2 crisis teams with a dc and 10marker drones . This can deliver 6 seeker missles tat any range if needed. I want to play it in a list with my stormsurge for another 4 destroyer missles ( another ~6 Mortal Wounds with 5 markerlights)

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