Tanks - what a disappointment

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#109 » Oct 30 2017 03:04

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


That's exactly what I was meaning. I just suspect we don't get to fire 6 at a time. :P

Depends on how Seeker Missiles will be changed I guess. Shooting 6 at a time at BS4+ or BS3+ really isn't strong at all for the points a Skyray costs.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#110 » Oct 30 2017 03:14

Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


That's exactly what I was meaning. I just suspect we don't get to fire 6 at a time. :P

Depends on how Seeker Missiles will be changed I guess. Shooting 6 at a time at BS4+ or BS3+ really isn't strong at all for the points a Skyray costs.


It would definitely make them playable again. Still confused why SKYray's can't shoot flyers reliably anymore...

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Arka0415
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#111 » Oct 30 2017 06:13

Jorthax wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:2. A strategem


My problem with strategem's fixing things is that we can be (not always) a relatively 'elite' army and therefore I've found it harder to fill out those +3CP force orgs to get as high a totals as my friends. Paying 1CP a turn to fire a hammerhead is not going to help. I have a feeling we are going to be CP starved if we get JSJ back.

I mean, I'm not advocating this, but it is one of GW's options.

Yojimbob wrote:
Haechi wrote:Considering what happened to Leman Russes and Fire Prisms, we could hope for the same treatment on our HH, and have their turret fire twice if they moved at half range. That and a small price drop would make them very viable.


It's basically a guarantee that we will get the same treatment for the HH but I'm STILL confused as to what will happen to the skyray. I'm betting it goes the same was as other flyers getting renewable missiles every turn but I doubt it will be the full 6 like it always has been. Likely will be dropped to 4.

Honestly, I feel like if each Seeker was slightly more powerful (2 or D3 mortal wounds) and the rack could be reloaded (maybe 2D3 Seekers?) it would be a good unit. Not amazing, but good.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#112 » Oct 30 2017 08:11

Haechi wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


Definitely.


A more specific fix would make "skyray missile rack" a weapon
Heavy D6 72" range each hit from this weapon causes D3 mortal wounds, unless firing at a target with atleast 2 markerlight tokens this weapon only hits on a 6 regardless of modifiers.

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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#113 » Oct 30 2017 08:15

Nymphomanius wrote:
Haechi wrote:
Panzer wrote:The easiest fix for the Skyray would be to give him unlimited Seeker missiles. I'd play one even with the current Seeker rules if he had an unlimited amount of them.


Definitely.


A more specific fix would make "skyray missile rack" a weapon
Heavy D6 72" range each hit from this weapon causes D3 mortal wounds, unless firing at a target with atleast 2 markerlight tokens this weapon only hits on a 6 regardless of modifiers.

That's kinda just re-inventing the wheel. Just give it the according special rule and call it a day lol
"Missile rack: Seeker missiles shot by this unit aren't one-use only."

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#114 » Oct 31 2017 01:25

Field Resupply:
At the end of each of your moving phases roll a dice. On a 5+ you regain 1 Seeker Missile up to your initial limit.

or

Emergency resupply:
Once per battle you may call in an emergency resupply. At the beginning of your movement phase roll a D6 for every Seeker Missile missing. On a 4+ the missile is restocked and can be used again. Every (succesfully restocked) model may not move in this phase anymore at any circumstances.

or combine them and add the following sentence to "emergency resupply":
Using this rule deactivates "Field Resupply" for the rest of the battle.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#115 » Nov 01 2017 08:39

Ricordis wrote:Field Resupply:
At the end of each of your moving phases roll a dice. On a 5+ you regain 1 Seeker Missile up to your initial limit.

or

Emergency resupply:
Once per battle you may call in an emergency resupply. At the beginning of your movement phase roll a D6 for every Seeker Missile missing. On a 4+ the missile is restocked and can be used again. Every (succesfully restocked) model may not move in this phase anymore at any circumstances.

or combine them and add the following sentence to "emergency resupply":
Using this rule deactivates "Field Resupply" for the rest of the battle.


The thing is, other flyers who have really good missiles have unlimited numbers of missiles and can fire up to 4 a turn. I very seriously hope they don't put a restriction on how WE have to get them back. Granted ours are mortal wounds, but still.

AleksandrGRC
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Posts: 113

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#116 » Nov 03 2017 12:54

I agree with panzers idea
Its
Just like my railgun hammerhead idea
Lets make our army the great white sharks of mortal wound spam :)

Ahem
Thats heavy sniper mortal wounds son.
Now go put gilliman away

though that would require sniper markerlights possibly on the skyray itself, but im ok with that

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#117 » Nov 06 2017 04:44

I want to get 3 hammerhead tanks (one being longstrike). I been doing some math. When we unlock tier 2 markerlights we deal 1.944 mortal wounds per tank with 2 seeker missles. Assuming a standard hammerhead has longstrike's buff we actually do similar damage to Lascannons. Without markerlight support shooting at vechiles, an average tank does 0.277 mortal wounds/shot( or mortal wounds 13.8% of the time). Longstrike does 0.555 mortal wounds /shot (or mortal wounds 27.77℅ of the time.). Also Long shot can shoot at +2bs through -1 to hit (moving, hard to hit, or slight injury) without marker lights.

***Toughness 7 ,save 3***
Rail/+2 BS hammerheadw/MW:2.221 damage/shot
Rail/Longstrike w/mw:2.430 damage/shot
2Las cannons: 2.592 damage/shot
(Compared to commanders
Fbx4 commander: 7.777
3 cib +ats commander: 4.444)

***Add invul save +5 saves (daemons)***
Hammerhed: 1.258 damage/shot
Long strike: 1.801damage/shot
2 las cannons: 2.074 damage/shot

***Invul +4(stormsurge with shield gen?)***
Rail Hammerhead: 1.249 damage/shot
Rail longstrike: 1.770 damage/shot
2 lascannons:1.555 damage/shot

So our tanks fall behind slightly behind sheer damage output but we get massive range. The problem is our damage is more subject to variance, so when it's bad, it awful.

I do like our seeker missles, with marker lights we are likely to put down bigger threats quicker. We also take longer to cripple slightly and have more wounds.

Commanders put out more damage immediately but are very likely to not see another turn of shooting. I am assuming if I get 3 tanks longstrike is likely to live to see turn 2 and the other hammerheads can live to see turn 3. This should make their overall damage output similar to commanders over the course of a game.

All just my opinions though, I haven't played or proxied any. I want to play them with 2 crisis teams with a dc and 10marker drones . This can deliver 6 seeker missles tat any range if needed. I want to play it in a list with my stormsurge for another 4 destroyer missles ( another ~6 Mortal Wounds with 5 markerlights)

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Studioworks
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#118 » Jan 19 2018 06:59

Lostroninsoul wrote:I want to get 3 hammerhead tanks (one being longstrike).


I have the same idea and want to try on my next game. Have you tried it?

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#119 » Jan 19 2018 07:16

I have not tried the tanks out. I have only acquire d a single longstrike, and that works for me for now :).

Also,I did notice the skyray is one of the few units that can potentially get 5 markerlights, solo (with markerlights).

FrogPrince
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#120 » Jan 21 2018 01:04

Studioworks wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:I want to get 3 hammerhead tanks (one being longstrike).


I have the same idea and want to try on my next game. Have you tried it?


I have and it can be very hit or miss later in the battle. Once they start losing BS and movement they are very susceptible to missing/not wounding their target and doing nothing with their main weapon.

When all three hit with good damage rolls they pack ahead of a punch, but if you get a turn of poor dice rolls it is enough to make you cry. This can be overcome, to an extent, if they have good markerlight support.

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Nickabbottt
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#121 » Feb 22 2018 05:54

Am i reading the rules wrong?

Reading the rule for Railguns, they do 1D6 damage but with an extra D3 mortal wounds on each role of a 6.

So on a perfect roll a railgun can put out 24 wounds (18 of which are mortal) not the 9 people keep mentioning.

Still sucks though as it’s nigh imposdible to achieve!

Sorry if this has been mentioned (long thread)

Shas'o Shortsight
Shas
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#122 » Feb 22 2018 06:02

You're reading it wrong. On a wound roll of 6 you add D3 mortal wounds to the total damage.
So it's 1-6 normal damage and 1-3 MW.

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Nickabbottt
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#123 » Feb 22 2018 08:08

Not trying to be difficult, just a bit confused.

It says “each time you make a wound roll of 6+” you add D3 mortal wounds.

So is that you add D3 mortal wounds if you roll a 6+ on your D6 roll for number of wounds to roll for, or is it D3 mortal wounds for each actual wound roll of 6+?

So either example 1 or 2 below.

Example 1
I roll a 4 and hit.
I roll a D6 and get a 6 for 6 wound rolls.
I roll D3 and get a 6 so add 3 mortal wounds
(Making it a minimum of 4 wounds for this attack).
I roll two 6s and four 1s for my wound rolls.
Making 2 normal and 3 mortal wounds.

Example 2
I roll 4 and hit.
I roll a D6 and get 6 for 6 wound rolls.
I roll two 6s and four 1s.
I roll a D3 for each 6 and get two 6s (my rolls are awesome).
Making 2 normal and 6 mortal wounds.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#124 » Feb 22 2018 08:15

Nickabbottt wrote:Not trying to be difficult, just a bit confused.

It says “each time you make a wound roll of 6+” you add D3 mortal wounds.

So is that you add D3 mortal wounds if you roll a 6+ on your D6 roll for number of wounds to roll for, or is it D3 mortal wounds for each actual wound roll of 6+?

The "wound roll" is the check to see if the shot wounds, or doesn't. The damage roll determines the number of wounds the opponent loses.

Also, it seems like you misunderstand the way attacks work in 40k. You roll dice to pass or fail- rolling a 6 to wound doesn't make "6 wound rolls". The number you roll doesn't generate any additional dice. You might want to read through the attacking rules again, since it's such a critical part of 40k: https://www.games-workshop.com/resource ... 000_en.pdf

Here's what happens.

1. You roll to hit.
2. If the to-hit roll was a success, roll to wound.
3a. If the to-wound roll was a success, let your opponent roll their armor save.
3b. If the to-wound roll was a 6 or more, immediately deal D3 mortal wounds.
4. If the armor save was a failure, roll for damage.

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Jarhead
Shas
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#125 » Feb 22 2018 08:17

You are misunderstanding.

"Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target unit suffers d3 mortal wounds in addition to the normal damage."

The wound roll is the roll of comparing S to T. It is the to wound roll. You only make one of these on the solid shot railgun.

So say you are firing at a t8 target. You need a 3 to wound, you roll a 4. That means you have succesfully wounded and now you get to roll d6 Damage. That damage roll is not a wound roll. It is a damage roll.

Now lets say you roll a 6 in the same situation. You succesfully wound and have made a wound roll of 6+. This means you get to roll for mortal wounds. So lets say you roll a 4 on the d6 for damage and a 5 on the d6/2 for the mortal wounds.
You would do 4 normal damage, and three mortal wounds.

The mortal wounds don't come from a 6 on the damage roll, but from a 6 on the to wound roll.
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