Tanks - what a disappointment

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#19 » Aug 21 2017 11:01

The Tigershark also is way more mobile after the initial drop of the Commander and can't get charged unless the unit has the FLY keyword.
It has its advantages for sure but as always it's hard to compare with a deep striking HQ with 4 Melta, FLY keyword, decent survivability and so low point cost.

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MNGamer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#20 » Aug 21 2017 11:03

Panzer wrote:The Tigershark also is way more mobile after the initial drop of the Commander and can't get charged unless the unit has the FLY keyword.
It has its advantages for sure but as always it's hard to compare with a deep striking HQ with 4 Melta, FLY keyword, decent survivability and so low point cost.

Plus a commander is a cheaper model than both a hammerhead and a tigershark(by orders of magnitude).
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#21 » Aug 21 2017 11:33

MNGamer wrote:
Panzer wrote:The Tigershark also is way more mobile after the initial drop of the Commander and can't get charged unless the unit has the FLY keyword.
It has its advantages for sure but as always it's hard to compare with a deep striking HQ with 4 Melta, FLY keyword, decent survivability and so low point cost.

Plus a commander is a cheaper model than both a hammerhead and a tigershark(by orders of magnitude).


and so low point cost.

Pottsey
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#22 » Aug 22 2017 03:27

Studioworks wrote:Sadly I don't have enough points to avoid using tanks, but as soon as I paint more of the models I will avoid them. Absolutely useless in my experience.

What is your opinion about Longstrike and the other tanks? Have you did better with them? What can I do do do better?

Edit: The only time by now that I was defeated was against Ultramarines. In the last turn two of my tanks (Longstrike with Rail and Hammerhead with Ion) needed to kill two Termies to table the opponent. 0 damage :/

Unless I am building a themed list I don't use tanks. Gunrigs are so much better when backed up with markers. You can get 6 railgun shots form 3 Gunrigs for less pts then 3 shots from 3 tanks. The Gunrigs do need markerlights to back them up but 3 Gunrigs with 2 pathfinder squads works out better for me then 1 Longstrike and 2 hammerheads. With 5 marker hits on average the Gunrigs will get more hits and do more damage and at peak will do double the tank damage.

1 Gunrig can kill targets in 1 turn that Longstrike that's 2 turns to kill.

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Morgrim
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#23 » Aug 22 2017 06:06

Pardon my noobness but what is a gun rig? Broadside?

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#24 » Aug 22 2017 06:35

Morgrim wrote:Pardon my noobness but what is a gun rig? Broadside?


The gun rig is one of our new fortification units introduced last edition. It is a floating platform with a twin linked rail gun.

Czar Ziggy

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Studioworks
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#25 » Aug 22 2017 06:36

Morgrim wrote:Pardon my noobness but what is a gun rig? Broadside?


It's a mobile platform with a Supremacy Rail gun, Heavy 2.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resource ... form01.jpg

Xanrag
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#26 » Aug 22 2017 07:07

But even with max markerlights a gunrig only hits on 4+ rerolling ones right? They do get two shots though.

Pottsey
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#27 » Aug 22 2017 07:12

Xanrag wrote:But even with max markerlights a gunrig only hits on 4+ rerolling ones right? They do get two shots though.

That's right so you have 2 shots per rig with a 67% hit chance per shot. That means on average you should get more hits then 3 tanks even with LongStrike. Plus every so often you get a lucky double hit doing double the tank damage. One game I did 15 wounds on turn 1 killing a critical enemy target and you just cannot do that with a tank. There are some down sides with rigs from half the movement and no sub ammo for when there are no big targets.

Xanrag
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#28 » Aug 22 2017 07:53

Gives me some incentive to assemble my gun rigs again now that the formation is gone..

What I'm really interested in trying though is longstrike and then some tanks with forgeworld turrets. Having two HYMP or two HBC with two SMS all hitting on 2+ if standing still sounds like good old overwhelming firepower to me. Not for taking out tanks then but everything else.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#29 » Aug 22 2017 08:58

Pottsey wrote:
Xanrag wrote:But even with max markerlights a gunrig only hits on 4+ rerolling ones right? They do get two shots though.

That's right so you have 2 shots per rig with a 67% hit chance per shot. T


BS4+ re-rolling 1s isn't the same of BS3+

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Yojimbob
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#30 » Aug 22 2017 09:03

Vector Strike wrote:
Pottsey wrote:
Xanrag wrote:But even with max markerlights a gunrig only hits on 4+ rerolling ones right? They do get two shots though.

That's right so you have 2 shots per rig with a 67% hit chance per shot. T


BS4+ re-rolling 1s isn't the same of BS3+


^^^^^

pilky
Shas'La
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#31 » Aug 22 2017 10:10

Yeah, 3 Gun Rigs with 1 markerlight will average about 1.53 successful wound rolls a turn. 2 Hammerheads + Longstrike average 1.81 successful wound rolls a turn. So you've more chance of wounding with the hammerheads. Plus you're averaging slightly more mortal wound chances (0.38 hits will result in a mortal wound with the gun rigs vs 0.41 for the Hammerheads).

Now things change if you get 5 markerlights off, as then the Gun Rigs go up to 2.33 wounds with 0.58 hits causing a mortal wound chance. But to do that you end up needing 2 Pathfinder squads to average the 5 markerlights, which means starving off Markerlights from elsewhere in your army and ends up only saving you around 36 points over the hammerheads (plus you lose the drones you get with the hammerhead, and the potential for a high BS seeker missile platform for the more common case of getting 2 markerlight hits)

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Emberkahn
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#32 » Aug 22 2017 05:39

Not to mention you are paying a an 80pt premium on each of the gunrigs just for the markerlights

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Overheal
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#33 » Aug 22 2017 08:26

I took Longstrike in a game recently and he did two 6+ wounds and 9-13 wounds on a gorkanaut. Mind you I used CP and it helped tremendously.

High BS is one thing but re-rolls are themselves always invaluable!

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Panzer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#34 » Aug 22 2017 11:25

Gunrigs work out better than Longstrike point per wound, however they need more support and are overall less reliable. Longstrikes BS1+ and +1 to-wound against vehicles/monsters is gold.
He still falls back compared to things like Lascannon Razorbacks but we have to deal with what we have.

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MNGamer
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#35 » Aug 23 2017 01:36

I think that we need to remember that railguns have a 72" range compared to the lascannons 48", at long range my money is on the hammerhead.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

Pottsey
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Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#36 » Aug 23 2017 02:03

Emberkahn wrote:Not to mention you are paying a an 80pt premium on each of the gunrigs just for the markerlights

Not each, like tanks you would often shoot both at the same target so only need 80pts once not twice. Plus you can buy 3 Gunrigs and 2 pathfinder squads cheaper then Longstrike and 2 hammerheads. You can also only take 1 Longstrike but you can take 3 Gunrigs. 2 Gunrigs barely cost more then Longstrike.


MNGamer wrote:I think that we need to remember that railguns have a 72" range compared to the lascannons 48", at long range my money is on the hammerhead.

That extra range doesn’t really come into a standard game. Once adding in deployment zone doesn’t 36” hit something like 85% of the board and 48” hit 100% of enemy units in a typical game. (not factoring in LOS)
Last edited by Pottsey on Aug 23 2017 03:28, edited 1 time in total.

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