Tanks - what a disappointment

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
1ofmany
Shas'Saal
Posts: 22

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#37 » Aug 23 2017 02:18

On a regular gaming table 48" x 72" minus 2x12" deployment then the range difference is not that hot.

And the marine players I play never go out with out 2 predators. One with cronus and one regular and they will set up as last.

Thanks.

zawyvern
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#38 » Sep 22 2017 12:13

I'm getting back into Tau after a couple of editions. I have a bunch of hammerhead hulls from back in the day of fish of fury. so this post caught my eye. I don't know the forgeworld stuff so well so I'll keep it to the index.
I definitely see how the firepower can be an issue going toe to toe with a las predator.
But the problem is there isn't much of an alternative for the Tau to take anti-tank. Broadsides are less tough with BS4+, and taxed with mixed weapon types if you go anti-tank (mandatory SMS or plasma rifles). That and one suit is only like 10 points cheaper than one railgun tank.

Suits in general are too expensive and slow now.
The fusion commander is good but everyone knows about it now and deploy against alpha strike.
The tidewall gunrig is cool but hitting on 5s and needs a rider to target something else besides the closest unit. (I suggest the firesight marksmen btw) And the gunrig is not as sturdy as the hammerhead.

The only thing I can think of is to take them in decent numbers 4-6 railgun hammerheads, including longstrike. if you take broadsides with that maybe you're opponent won't know what to target.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1297

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#39 » Sep 22 2017 12:40

zawyvern wrote:I definitely see how the firepower can be an issue going toe to toe with a las predator.

It's absolutely tough. You either need to use Commanders w/ 4x Fusion Blasters to take care of the Predators, or XV8s/Commanders w/ Cyclic Ion Blasters in larger numbers.

zawyvern wrote:But the problem is there isn't much of an alternative for the Tau to take anti-tank. Broadsides are less tough with BS4+, and taxed with mixed weapon types if you go anti-tank (mandatory SMS or plasma rifles). That and one suit is only like 10 points cheaper than one railgun tank.

Suits in general are too expensive and slow now.

Yeah, that's exactly the issue. I guess Broadsides get a little niche as they can take Velocity Trackers, or HYMP w/ ATS, but yeah they're shockingly expensive. Unless the points come down a lot in the new Codex no one will use them.

zawyvern wrote:The only thing I can think of is to take them in decent numbers 4-6 railgun hammerheads, including longstrike. if you take broadsides with that maybe you're opponent won't know what to target.

I mean, with this loadout you're talking about 1000+ points worth of dedicated anti-tank, worse yet 1500+ points if you add XV8s. We need to use cost-effective solutions like Fusion Commanders and battlesuits with Cyclic on Blasters. I bring one Hammerhead at 1500-2000 points and two at 2000+ points; in my opinion they're not a spammable unit but rather they provide a versatile, long-range gun that's good at finishing off targets your XV8s and Commanders didn't quite kill.

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Glarblar
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Posts: 225

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#40 » Sep 22 2017 08:33

Keyword: BATTLESUIT is a very points premium keyword to have. They probably thought that 'Saviour Protocols' was going to be a big thing to watch out for when they "Balanced" T'au, but it just pushed out suits from being effective

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#41 » Sep 22 2017 09:03

Glarblar wrote:Keyword: BATTLESUIT is a very points premium keyword to have. They probably thought that 'Saviour Protocols' was going to be a big thing to watch out for when they "Balanced" T'au, but it just pushed out suits from being effective

Except that Stealth Suits aren't that expensive and that Saviour Protocol works on Infantry as well who as well aren't exactly expensive. ;)

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Glarblar
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Posts: 225

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#42 » Sep 22 2017 09:11

Panzer wrote:
Glarblar wrote:Keyword: BATTLESUIT is a very points premium keyword to have. They probably thought that 'Saviour Protocols' was going to be a big thing to watch out for when they "Balanced" T'au, but it just pushed out suits from being effective

Except that Stealth Suits aren't that expensive and that Saviour Protocol works on Infantry as well who as well aren't exactly expensive. ;)


I imagine that's b/c the drones have a similar stat line to infantry, remember how it originally worked was the drone would take the wound and not a mortal wound, the MW was just a stopgap for an overpowered ability with no points adjustment:

Drone: T4, Sv 4+
FW: T3, Sv 4/5+ (less valuable)
Stealth: T4, Sv 3+ (slightly more valuable)
XV8: T5, Sv 3+
XV88: T5, Sv 2+
Ghost: T6, Sv 3+
Riptide: T7, Sv 2+

Now, as value of a 'wound' goes up we see points skyrocket. Ghost and Tide are less expensive than they could be, compared to the XV88, simply b/c they have a damage table to compensate

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#43 » Sep 22 2017 09:20

I still think it's stupid that the cost for Saviour Protocol is included in the Battlesuits. It's not their ability. It's the Drones ability. The Drones should be more expensive so the Suits can be properly priced even if you don't take any Drones with them.

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
Posts: 225

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#44 » Sep 22 2017 09:22

Panzer wrote:I still think it's stupid that the cost for Saviour Protocol is included in the Battlesuits. It's not their ability. It's the Drones ability. The Drones should be more expensive so the Suits can be properly priced even if you don't take any Drones with them.


That may fix the drones spam / Fireblade combo

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: Tanks - what a disappointment

Post#45 » Sep 22 2017 09:37

It would fix a lot of things. The fact that Crisis Suits and bigger Suits are too expensive as well as the Gun Drone spam. Then we just need something to fix HQ spam for every army and we're a big step closer to where we want to be.

Anyway, that's not exactly this threads topic here. Nothing of that would affect our tanks which would need a big point drop as well. ^^

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